BF2S Forums Race relations thread

spoken like a true whinge bag white person. the biggest hardship you've had this year is having to stay inside with your kids for 6 weeks.

there are 330,000,000 americans. there are 42,000,000 blacks. that's a huge supply. all these police murders are a rounding error on a fraction of the census.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I know you shielded your comment with a sarcasm tag, but it really looks like you're still trying to underhandedly pass a "Legitimate Argument®" here.

Yes, Jay. Protesting against police brutality is certainly as pointless as protesting against the flu.

I'm saying it's a bit overblown, yes. It's a problem, yes, but it's not a let's burn down a bunch of cities type problem.

And all these marches against racism might as well be marches against cancer or some other bad thing that literally no one is for. It's completely vapid. Is anyone really pro-racism? It is all very witch-hunty with the demands for groupthink displays of solidarity, and the deplatforming, and calling people out, and where silence is considered the same as racism itself? Fuck off.

Jay wrote:

I mean I'm watching my cousins' ex boyfriend going on and on about privilege and reposting people who made racist comments. Dude was raised by white parents, got a full ride to UCONN, got drafted into the NBA and couldn't stay in the league because he kept failing drug tests for weed. Now he plays basketball in Europe. Dude has lived a more privileged life and had more opportunities than 99.999% of the people on this planet.

His interesting and full life can still be taken away with one run in the wrong cop. That is what people are upset about. You can do everything right in life but some pig man shoots you in the face because you make them nervous or they are having a bad day and are low on patience.

I just need to stay off social media until after the election. All the newly woke are having their religious euphoria experience and are looking for demons to exorcise. The newly religious are exhausting.

Last edited by Jay (2020-06-09 16:36:00)

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

I mean I'm watching my cousins' ex boyfriend going on and on about privilege and reposting people who made racist comments. Dude was raised by white parents, got a full ride to UCONN, got drafted into the NBA and couldn't stay in the league because he kept failing drug tests for weed. Now he plays basketball in Europe. Dude has lived a more privileged life and had more opportunities than 99.999% of the people on this planet.

His interesting and full life can still be taken away with one run in the wrong cop. That is what people are upset about. You can do everything right in life but some pig man shoots you in the face because you make them nervous or they are having a bad day and are low on patience.

Like I said, the situation is far from perfect and reform is needed, but literally the biggest positive change that could have happened was already up for review at the Supreme Court this term. Qualified Immunity is potentially on the chopping block, and was likely headed for elimination. Now? With all the conservatives going all Law and Order? It might be a tougher sell. Qualified Immunity is what prevents cops from being prosecuted successfully 99% of the time.

So it will be liberals fault when conservatives stop any police reform?

you've had the longest period of peaceful protests since the 1960s but you're still talking about 'rioting and looting' and 'antifas'.

it's a smear. most trouble over the last week has been caused by heavy-handed policing, breaking up peaceably assembled crowds.

where's the looting and rioting? this is really what you're taking away from the last week?

I recommend the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. I've recommended it here many times. It really goes through how the justice system in the United States is racist as an institution, rotten to the core. From the judges to the prosecutors to the police, it shows how every facet of "justice" in the U.S. is applied discriminately. Pretending that ending qualified immunity (or any simple, one-note 'solution') will magically make cops less racist, or the institutions that protect them less likely to, is just downright silly. Sorry, it will take lots of small and large steps in unison, over the course of many years, to properly right this ship.

The New Jim Crow also touches on the conversation between uzi and larssen however many pages ago, regarding the next generation of policing in an advanced tech "big data" age. Systems can be created to predict and even stop crime before it happens, but if the algorithms themselves are based on historical (racist) data, there's obviously an inherent bias that will lead to more racism and prejudice. Giving oppressors more weapons is not going to automatically hold people more accountable. The PEOPLE will use it to better document and hold people in power accountable, but the oppressors will use it to amplify and efficiently oppress.

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

I mean I'm watching my cousins' ex boyfriend going on and on about privilege and reposting people who made racist comments. Dude was raised by white parents, got a full ride to UCONN, got drafted into the NBA and couldn't stay in the league because he kept failing drug tests for weed. Now he plays basketball in Europe. Dude has lived a more privileged life and had more opportunities than 99.999% of the people on this planet.

His interesting and full life can still be taken away with one run in the wrong cop. That is what people are upset about. You can do everything right in life but some pig man shoots you in the face because you make them nervous or they are having a bad day and are low on patience.

Like I said, the situation is far from perfect and reform is needed, but literally the biggest positive change that could have happened was already up for review at the Supreme Court this term. Qualified Immunity is potentially on the chopping block, and was likely headed for elimination. Now? With all the conservatives going all Law and Order? It might be a tougher sell. Qualified Immunity is what prevents cops from being prosecuted successfully 99% of the time.

How is reform going to happen if people don't speak up? How are people going to speak up if ways to do so are gradually being taken away?

Protests get attention because they are inconvenient. Probably my biggest criticism is the timing with this ongoing coronavirus pandemic, which doesn't care what your political motives are. You, on the other hand, should be cheering them on for not letting a little flu stop them from gathering.

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I know you shielded your comment with a sarcasm tag, but it really looks like you're still trying to underhandedly pass a "Legitimate Argument®" here.

Yes, Jay. Protesting against police brutality is certainly as pointless as protesting against the flu.

I'm saying it's a bit overblown, yes. It's a problem, yes, but it's not a let's burn down a bunch of cities type problem.

And all these marches against racism might as well be marches against cancer or some other bad thing that literally no one is for. It's completely vapid. Is anyone really pro-racism? It is all very witch-hunty with the demands for groupthink displays of solidarity, and the deplatforming, and calling people out, and where silence is considered the same as racism itself? Fuck off.

You sure like the word "overblown" a lot.

Someone holding a sign in the middle of the road, the sidewalk, or a grassy field isn't burning the city to the ground. I would argue that the police shooting, gassing, and shocking nonviolent protesters, medics performing CPR, or utterly uninvolved bystanders in their 70s, on wheelchairs, or carrying groceries are doing more harm to the community, trust, and the situation in general. Not to forget police vandalizing stores and vehicles.

You don't have to be wearing a white hood to be a racist any more than you have to have a twirlable mustache to be a comic villain.

Where is this groupthink complaint coming from? PTSD from being asked to push your desks together in gradeschool and cooperate on a project?

For witch-hunty, I refer you to the family that got chased out of Forks, WA because a bunch of yokels there thought they were antifa out to loot the city. So thanks for pushing that angle, President Trump.

Anyone who isn't naive realises the current momentum will also be (ab)used by criminals. But maybe you should reconsider your black and white view of reality here, before going all Trumpian and describing all opposition as looters and bandits.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I recommend the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. I've recommended it here many times. It really goes through how the justice system in the United States is racist as an institution, rotten to the core. From the judges to the prosecutors to the police, it shows how every facet of "justice" in the U.S. is applied discriminately. Pretending that ending qualified immunity (or any simple, one-note 'solution') will magically make cops less racist, or the institutions that protect them less likely to, is just downright silly. Sorry, it will take lots of small and large steps in unison, over the course of many years, to properly right this ship.

The New Jim Crow also touches on the conversation between uzi and larssen however many pages ago, regarding the next generation of policing in an advanced tech "big data" age. Systems can be created to predict and even stop crime before it happens, but if the algorithms themselves are based on historical (racist) data, there's obviously an inherent bias that will lead to more racism and prejudice. Giving oppressors more weapons is not going to automatically hold people more accountable. The PEOPLE will use it to better document and hold people in power accountable, but the oppressors will use it to amplify and efficiently oppress.

yep, i totally agree with this and hope that was the general gist of my post. i’ve only heard snatches of anecdotes about how it is being implemented in the US.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I don't know, maybe don't deal drugs from your dad's house and if an armed officer tells you not to move maybe don't move.

in the UK the stakes are a lot lower, although armed police units have and do shoot people on the suspicion of drug dealing (mark duggan's death started the 2011 riots). when this sort of thing happens in the states, you talk about 'herr durr, the police are there to enforce the law and bring someone to court, that's it'. but in this situation you say 'maybe don't deal drugs if you don't want to get tased'? o k dilbert. seems you need to go work out a few things.

uziq wrote:

in the UK the stakes are a lot lower, although armed police units have and do shoot people on the suspicion of drug dealing (mark duggan's death started the 2011 riots). when this sort of thing happens in the states, you talk about 'herr durr, the police are there to enforce the law and bring someone to court, that's it'. but in this situation you say 'maybe don't deal drugs if you don't want to get tased'? o k dilbert. seems you need to go work out a few things.

Mark Duggan was also known to be tooling around with a loaded gun and threatening people, and he was.
Maybe the Police could have done it differently, but there's no-one in Britain who thinks they're going to be treated gently if they're running around with a gun.