Race relations thread

2021-07-26 19:19:32

#5001

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

There's no democracy which doesn't basically give power to the majority

'most people don't want democracy, they want a dictator they agree with'

What if I told you, this is what every minority wants too, especially blacks.

They don't want a seat at the table, they want the table to themselves.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 19:46:22

#5002

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6768|PNW

I would say that use of "especially" is unnecessarily specific. Yes, there are some black people who would like a 100% takeover. But people who were wringing their hands here in the states because they were afraid about having a black president is not exactly ancient history. Some of the same people who are screaming about race politics today. Irony, once again.

2021-07-26 20:05:13

#5003

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

The liberal world thought China would come round and become an equal partner, they too only want domination.

Its only white people who are dumb enough to think other groups want equality.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 20:15:14

#5004

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +635|3716

So what would be your end game, Dilbert? What is the solution?

2021-07-26 20:54:17

#5005

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6768|PNW

There are people who do want measures of equality. That some black people post about taking everything over doesn't mean that's some massive end-game for the bulk of black America. Professions and positions that are normally dominated by white males, and resist the inclusion of others, receive some attention when non-whites or females are making inroads. The ideal of course is employment/enrollment on merit, although that wasn't exactly happening before programs like AA, was it.

2021-07-26 20:56:36

#5006

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

For a start stop gifting our wealth to China and putting people ahead except on merit.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 20:57:32

#5007

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6768|PNW

The ideal of course is employment/enrollment on merit, although that wasn't exactly happening before programs like AA, was it.

2021-07-26 21:41:40

#5008

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

Why not try travelling to a non Anglo-Saxon liberal country and see how you get on, on merit

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 21:44:19

#5009

uziq: Member; +492|3448

Dilbert_X wrote:
The liberal world thought China would come round and become an equal partner, they too only want domination.

Its only white people who are dumb enough to think other groups want equality.

it’s white peoples with those ‘dumb delusions’ which delivered us from feudalism and imperialism. you’d still be a serf if idealists hadn’t tried to snap society out of the lazy, nihilistic claptrap you go in for.

literally every right and freedom you enjoy, as a legal citizen, as a worker, or in any other civic capacity, you have because someone bothered to get off their ass and militate for it. often times those marginalised ‘others’ you deplore so much, whose campaigning efforts have further enshrined your own democratic rights.

2021-07-26 21:56:23

#5010

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

Sure, and the Chinese will deliver us back into serfdom - they've done it to the Uyghurs, they'll do it to us if they can, so would the blacks if they could.

Sorry if it doesn't fit with your idealism, you can ree to yourself all you like as you work to death in a Chinese coalmine.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 22:12:19

#5011

uziq: Member; +492|3448

china historically has had very little interest in expansion or subjugation. it was white europeans who colonized the known world and forced people into subaltern positions. china is beating us at the economic game ... which we taught them. you being alarmist is pretty funny considering the way west–east relations have played out over the last few hundred years. 'the century of humiliation', hello? maybe ... sometimes ... we are the bad guys?

in any case, i don't know what hysterical rambling about 'working in chinese coal mines' has to do with promoting racial equality in liberal democracies.

2021-07-26 22:41:20

#5012

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
historically

Not any more.

We're weakening ourselves focusing on all this leftist claptrap and dumbing ourselves down so dumb people can feel as clever as everyone else.

Meanwhile the Chinese, Russians etc are more racist than we have ever been.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 22:43:34

#5013

uziq: Member; +492|3448

are you seriously arguing that we should stop with 'rights' discourse in the west, stop listening to racial minorities, homosexuals or transexuals because 'russia and china are more racist than us anyway'?

what sort of fucking argument is this? i want my society to be as fair and equitable as possible. if that means examining my own privileges and letting other people on the ladder of opportunity, so be it: society gains a net plus.

'b-b-b-but chinese coal mines!' absolutely fucking clueless.

2021-07-26 22:48:38

#5014

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6768|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:
Why not try travelling to a non Anglo-Saxon liberal country and see how you get on, on merit

A number of people do pretty well, actually, doing just that. Meanwhile, you sit around whining and complaining about people like historians, editors, LiBeRaL aRtS MaJoRs: some of the people, y'know, working abroad, on merit.

Why is it whenever people call for change in a country, someone always chimes in with stuff like "oh go live in Somalia then if you don't like the police here" as if that has anything to do with the time of day in Chicago or whatever.

Anyway, I thought you didn't want anybody to travel right now, dilbert. Whatever happened to that?

2021-07-26 22:53:39

#5015

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +635|3716

uziq wrote:
china historically has had very little interest in expansion or subjugation.

1.5 billion people who are 95% Han and live in an area the size of the U.S. only got that way by millennials of genocide. You can read in their books about tribes they were fighting on their peripheries throughout the centuries. And now those areas are all Han Chinese.

2021-07-26 22:54:50

#5016

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +635|3716

Stop bullying Dilbert. Mod abuse.

2021-07-26 22:54:58

#5017

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
are you seriously arguing that we should stop with 'rights' discourse in the west, stop listening to racial minorities, homosexuals or transexuals because 'russia and china are more racist than us anyway'?

what sort of fucking argument is this? i want my society to be as fair and equitable as possible. if that means examining my own privileges and letting other people on the ladder of opportunity, so be it: society gains a net plus.

'b-b-b-but chinese coal mines!' absolutely fucking clueless.

Affirmative action, CRT etc aren't really equitable at all though are they? They're about replacing past wrongs with new wrongs.

Its strange that you're saying China is harmless, doesn't have designs on other countries and never has when you're living in a country which is still technically at war with China....

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 22:55:42

#5018

uziq: Member; +492|3448

SuperJail Warden wrote:
uziq wrote:
china historically has had very little interest in expansion or subjugation.
1.5 billion people who are 95% Han and live in an area the size of the U.S. only got that way by millennials of genocide. You can read in their books about tribes they were fighting on their peripheries throughout the centuries. And now those areas are all Han Chinese.

the same thing happened with the romans and most of europe. scary civilization!

by 'expansion' i meant world dominance, obviously, not territorial or border disputes around the 'middle kingdom'. china never sent gunboats to america.

Its strange that you're saying China is harmless, doesn't have designs on other countries and never has when you're living in a country which is still technically at war with China....

yes, and put another way, i'm living in a country which is still a satellite of the american empire. there's a huge american base here, all of the mainstream culture is american-influenced, and the entire country's development was propped up by pro-capitalist military dictators.

... ? read a book?

Last edited by uziq (2021-07-26 22:58:18)

2021-07-26 22:56:36

#5019

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

Of course not, civilised europeans annihilated the romans and their despotic empire.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 22:57:47

#5020

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
china never sent gunboats to america.

America basically fought China in Korea and Vietnam.

China sent plenty of gunboats.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 22:59:43

#5021

uziq: Member; +492|3448

i'm still missing the point of this little pop-historical excursus. what does it have to do with legal citizens of a democracy appealing for their democratic rights again?

yes, the cold war happened. why was china the only scary or maleficent actor there? you do know what america did in south america and indonesia, for example? do you think the west were the 'good guys' in vietnam?!? holy shit, lmao.

are we just going to get into 3 pages of whatboutism so that you can continue depriving any non-whites' appeal to justice? great!

Last edited by uziq (2021-07-26 23:00:49)

2021-07-26 23:01:54

#5022

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +635|3716

China is this century's Nazi Germany. And I am not saying that as necessarily a negative.

2021-07-26 23:06:40

#5023

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
i'm still missing the point of this little pop-historical excursus. what does it have to do with legal citizens of a democracy appealing for their democratic rights again?

yes, the cold war happened. why was china the only scary or maleficent actor there? you do know what america did in south america and indonesia, for example? do you think the west were the 'good guys' in vietnam?!? holy shit, lmao.

are we just going to get into 3 pages of whatboutism so that you can continue depriving any non-whites' appeal to justice? great!

You brought up Rome, the Romans weakened themselves through various means and were annihilated by 'less enlightened' and 'less democratic' peoples.
We'll go the same way.

What does what America did elsewhere have to do with them losing to China twice?
Does it change that China was the aggressor?

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2021-07-26 23:17:54

#5024

uziq: Member; +492|3448

how was china the aggressor in vietnam and korea? china and vietnam have long histories of conflict and non-alignment.

america was absolutely the aggressor in vietnam. the vietcong had popular support. just like america toppled elected socialists across the developing world. china the ‘aggressor’? for supporting democratically elected governments with a popular mandate?

so let me get this straight … you’re in support of anti-democratic measures so long as the end is amenable to you, and only you. but as soon as anyone tries to reform civil society from within, to help the poor or oppressed … we have to worry about china.

this is textbook fascism of a particularly insipid kind. popular appeals to an ‘enemy’ with which to shut down any discourse or talk of reform. how can we possibly accommodate for LGBTQ people when china exists?!?

2021-07-26 23:20:42

#5025

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6768|PNW

There were more factors at play in the fall of the Western Roman Empire than "barbarians at the gates." The topic is vast, and could fit into many more than 10-20 books.

I can't believe I'm hearing a bunch of history shots in the dark from Mr. Anti-History.

BF2S Forums Race relations thread

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