uziq
Member
+492|3450
rename the planets. calling our solar system after roman gods is out-of-date and only perpetuates class privilege of toffs who study roman mythology at private schools.

None of these are really improved by latin or need it
also medical, biological and taxonomical terms are precisely improved by latin, you fucking derp. by virtue of the fact that latin is the mother language of almost every mainstream western language today. the latin meaning SIGNIFIES something to people from ALL countries, because ALL of their languages share the common latinate roots. think about training to be a biologist or doctor in, say, modern europe or america, if you had to learn vernacular terms each and every time for your entire field??? latin has quite literally effected collaboration across an entire polyglot continent, you utter mongoloid.

this is the entire POINT of a 'learned language' (formerly a sacred language, or a language of law, even, in the secular, such as french). it's an elevated mode of discourse above local, specific, particular languages, which are given to the vagaries of time and falling into minority use. scholars have been communicating and transmitting specialist knowledge in latin for CENTURIES. a german biologist can immediately know what an american researcher is talking about when they refer to a bacterium or bird species, for instance. a person today can understand newton's or leibniz's latin manuscripts. or would you prefer to have to learn middle english or elizabethan english in order to grasp a universal scientific truth?  deeeerp deeerp deeerp. don't be so goddamned provincial and assume that everyone throughout history, including your beloved scientific enlightenment, has been able to speak english as a second language. it was the norm to write mathematical or physics theses in latin right up until the very modern era, precisely for that reason (some of the most influential maths and philosophy papers of the 20th century were presented in latin). your own beloved science would not have progressed half as fast if everyone published in their vernacular!

but i guess it has only ever been used by posh idiots, 'like a school tie', as a badge of insider-status.

your stubbornness and bizarre personal grudges are like nothing i have ever seen away from this forum. get help.

Last edited by uziq (2021-06-01 07:48:14)

Larssen
Member
+99|1886
In the long view I do think it makes sense that english overtakes that legacy. When all the various disciplines formalised and adopted more scientific principles, latin was a logical choice as it was still in widespread use for centuries particularly among the church elite, also because the latin/greek classics were very foundational to the development of humanities and sciences. The further along we get the more distant that legacy becomes. There's fewer latin speakers each year.
uziq
Member
+492|3450
it's not important to speak latin. but clearly the systems of classification and taxonomy adopted in latin have a huge utility. what would be the sense in subjecting everyone to an english and colloquial rendering of things? the confusion and ambiguity would abound. especially in the animal and plant kingdoms, where so many names and folk usages are shared and refer to different things. the latin classification literally solves any and all ambiguity.

the latinate 'rubecula' is intelligible to far more european languages than 'redbreast', for instance.

Last edited by uziq (2021-06-01 07:55:45)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
I don't have strong feelings about Latin one way or the other. I was just annoyed that people were complaining about "BLM progressive conspiracy to teach CRT in schools and destroy American culture" because one program is desperate for people to major in it.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
no argument there, the yoking of BLM/woke activism to classical languages is dumb as fuck. reminds me of something edward said, erm, said, in defence of his western-classical learning. you don't have to segregate yourself in ethnic or minority languages in order to be a post-colonialist.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

re: "better off learning German," there's probably more reasons for an English speaker to learn to parse, write, and speak Latin than German (sorry if I insult any German speakers), simply because it brings context and structure to rules of the English language in words and grammar that don't otherwise make sense. This apart from the sales pitch of law, sciences, and so on. Certainly more to it than a bunch of "high brow snobs et tu-ing in a reading club."

I don't know if this should be implemented into public schools or how it would be, but I do remember English being a subject with a lot of backtracking to recover stuff we've already been over. Maybe briefly covering why a rule is the way it is rather than teaching around it with a thousand exceptions "because that's just the way it is" would be easier?
uziq
Member
+492|3450
let's face it, learning any other language, modern or classical, is going to be an immense improvement to one's reasoning and knowledge. it measurably improves brain function as well as bringing any number of other apposite benefits. 'classics' as a discipline is clearly an enriching area of study. to remove the main language requirement for some ulterior political reason is just inane. learning another language(s) is part of the course's designed enrichment.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

I would love for more Americans to be bilingual if only to see a (hopefully) sharp decline in Karen videos of insecure people screaming at some Hispanic guy who's speaking to his South American mother in Spanish.
uziq
Member
+492|3450
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/01/podc … e=Homepage

good reportage on the anniversary of the tulsa race massacre.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

rename the planets. calling our solar system after roman gods is out-of-date and only perpetuates class privilege of toffs who study roman mythology at private schools.

None of these are really improved by latin or need it
also medical, biological and taxonomical terms are precisely improved by latin, you fucking derp. by virtue of the fact that latin is the mother language of almost every mainstream western language today. the latin meaning SIGNIFIES something to people from ALL countries, because ALL of their languages share the common latinate roots. think about training to be a biologist or doctor in, say, modern europe or america, if you had to learn vernacular terms each and every time for your entire field??? latin has quite literally effected collaboration across an entire polyglot continent, you utter mongoloid.

this is the entire POINT of a 'learned language' (formerly a sacred language, or a language of law, even, in the secular, such as french). it's an elevated mode of discourse above local, specific, particular languages, which are given to the vagaries of time and falling into minority use. scholars have been communicating and transmitting specialist knowledge in latin for CENTURIES. a german biologist can immediately know what an american researcher is talking about when they refer to a bacterium or bird species, for instance. a person today can understand newton's or leibniz's latin manuscripts. or would you prefer to have to learn middle english or elizabethan english in order to grasp a universal scientific truth?  deeeerp deeerp deeerp. don't be so goddamned provincial and assume that everyone throughout history, including your beloved scientific enlightenment, has been able to speak english as a second language. it was the norm to write mathematical or physics theses in latin right up until the very modern era, precisely for that reason (some of the most influential maths and philosophy papers of the 20th century were presented in latin). your own beloved science would not have progressed half as fast if everyone published in their vernacular!

but i guess it has only ever been used by posh idiots, 'like a school tie', as a badge of insider-status.

your stubbornness and bizarre personal grudges are like nothing i have ever seen away from this forum. get help.
Could just replace it all with english, do Cambridge undergrads have to write their thesis in French these days, was French not replaced?

some of the most influential maths ... papers of the 20th century were presented in latin
I'm prepared to bet it was a fairly tiny minority.

your stubbornness and bizarre personal grudges are like nothing i have ever seen away from this forum. get help.
You clinging desperately to the past is whats funny.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450
clinging to the past by arguing that latin classifications and taxonomies are useful in a various of disciplines ... LOL ok.

i didn't even study classics and my specialism is modernist literature
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
I'm sure we'll ditch latin just as we ditched the imperial system.

A generation later people will wonder why we clung on so long.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

Purging Latin influences from English and science would be needlessly complicated and aggravating. And for what, really. Revisiting an old point, say we hypothetically accomplish this and suffer through the few generations of personal and professional frustration and torment over it. Several hundred years later, back to square one because the modernization effort is now filled with obsolete quirks and artifacts.

Just keep the Latin, FFS.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
I'm sure it will all fade away over time, genetic research doesn't need it and its not useful there for example.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

I would like to know why you, a non-geneticist, think it isn't useful to genetic research in particular.

There aren't enough words in the English language to rename all this crap. You would have to invent new ones. Let's see, maybe we can borrow from another language …

Your beef with Latin is beyond petty.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
What are you talking about I'm made of genes.

German is the best language for inventing new words, I've invented some myself

Scheisshausschadenfreude - The feeling of glee you experience when you see someone heading to the lavatory you just usd.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-06-03 03:00:35)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450
ah, yes, german, that language which is widely spoken by the scientific and scholarly community all around the world.

latin at least was pan-european and migrated to north america.

you are a hopeless berk who spends his time tilting at windmills.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

Can you even say science in German, dilbert? Without looking it up?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
What would delusional hipsters tilt at if engineers didn't build windmills, trees?

It really wouldn't take much to stop using latin.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450

Dilbert_X wrote:

What would delusional hipsters tilt at if engineers didn't build windmills, trees?

It really wouldn't take much to stop using latin.
ok good luck getting doctors, biologists, physicians and logicians the world over to suddenly learn new terms.

'hey there, guy from romania, modus ponens is from now on called Erdgeistwiltenschaften. we decided to use german. can you learn it?'
'excuse me, american doctor, please stop referring to that bacteria by its name. we are now referring to it in english as 'that one that makes you sick'.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Could just give viruses, bacteria etc numbers, you know, like we do now.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-06-03 04:48:48)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

What would delusional hipsters tilt at if engineers didn't build windmills, trees?

It really wouldn't take much to stop using latin.
ok good luck getting doctors, biologists, physicians and logicians the world over to suddenly learn new terms.

'hey there, guy from romania, modus ponens is from now on called Erdgeistwiltenschaften. we decided to use german. can you learn it?'
'excuse me, american doctor, please stop referring to that bacteria by its name. we are now referring to it in english as 'that one that makes you sick'.
It's completely divorced from reality is what it is. Even words that don't sound specifically Latin from a lay viewpoint can be Latin derived. Even terms used in engineering, materials science. Why on earth would I want to replace the word "viscosity" for example with some jabberwocky nonsense or hastily cobbled German? Why against Latin but not Greek? Shouldn't "aerodynamics" be changed too?

Dilbert would probably be lynched by his fellow engineers if he had dictatorial industry status and mandated a 100% overhaul of the language.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Every engineer in the developed world is profoundly grateful we ditched imperial units.

Feet and inches are bad enough, imagine trying to do complex fluid mechanics with ounces and poise and psi.

Once we knock the Kuddelmuddelers like uziq on the head it should be plain sailing, we'll never look back.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Even words that don't sound specifically Latin from a lay viewpoint can be Latin derived.
So we don't actually need to us actual latin words, we can use similar modern words?

Wow. Mind. Blown.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

So, like … you're fine with Latin as long as you're not aware that it's Latin? That makes even less sense to me than your Star Trek stuff.

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