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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

maybe dilbert and shahter can come up with some more incriminating evidence about floyd's irreducibly criminal (because black) character.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Obviously Chauvin killed Floyd, either deliberately or so recklessly as to be practically deliberate.
Obviously people shouldn't get the death penalty for passing a counterfeit bill, I don't even support the death penalty.
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

Goes without saying that it's not even the death penalty in technical terms when carried out in the field like that. Just someone dying.
uziq
Member
+393|2365
'just someone dying'? i believe in technical terms it's called second and third degree murder.
uziq
Member
+393|2365

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

maybe dilbert and shahter can come up with some more incriminating evidence about floyd's irreducibly criminal (because black) character.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Obviously Chauvin killed Floyd, either deliberately or so recklessly as to be practically deliberate.
Obviously people shouldn't get the death penalty for passing a counterfeit bill, I don't even support the death penalty.
and yet you were recycling the tosh and calumny from chauvin's defense about floyd being 'on drugs' which is why he died so easily. funny how quickly you forgot all that stuff as soon as the medical testimonies failed to add up. because trace amounts of a drug in your bloodstream is a more probable cause of death than a knee in your windpipe for 10 minutes.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
He was supposed to have had a fatal dose in his system, having OD'd before, and the clerk thought he was off his head on something.

In the video he was complaining he couldn't breath when he was sitting in the back of the car before he got knelt on.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+393|2365
'he was supposed to have' - supposed by who? you and derek chauvin's defense attorney? LOL.

that's what toxicologists are for, isn't it?

Prosecutors had called him to the stand to rebut the argument from Mr. Chauvin’s lawyer that fentanyl, a powerful opioid, had caused Mr. Floyd’s overdose. Prosecutors say Mr. Chauvin is responsible for Mr. Floyd’s death, and earlier on Thursday, a lung doctor testified that Mr. Chauvin’s knees on Mr. Floyd’s neck and back were significant factors in his death.

Dr. Isenschmid said that last year, in cases where N.M.S. Labs tested blood from a person who died and who had taken fentanyl, the average amount that scientists found was 16.8 nanograms per milliliter, about 50 percent higher than the amount found in Mr. Floyd’s blood. But Mr. Chauvin’s lawyer, Eric J. Nelson, noted that average was among people who died of any cause and had fentanyl in their system, not just overdoses. And, he pointed out, the median level of fentanyl among that group was slightly below Mr. Floyd’s.
woops!

fact-check!

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact … 239448002/
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

uziq wrote:

'just someone dying'? i believe in technical terms it's called second and third degree murder.
If you really want to get into it, Chauvin's turned out to be second- and third-degree murder as well as second-degree manslaughter.

Still someone dying though. That's what happens to someone when they're murdered. They die.

I think I've made myself plenty clear here on excessive use of force. I don't even support the death penalty. It's just that it always bugs me when I see someone say "drug use doesn't deserve the death penalty!" Being killed by a cop during an arrest is not the "death penalty" being carried out at all. You're just being murdered/manslaughtered/killed/etc.

I hope Biden will be able to successfully urge police reform. The country needs it.
uziq
Member
+393|2365
people phrase it as the 'death penalty' not being literal but being metaphorical. they are using the language of law enforcement to show the absurdity of the situation. the victim-blaming, cross-examination of their character (even posthumously, which is just gross), siding with the police officer as a representative of law and order, etc, are all legalistic arguments. hence referring to murder-by-cop as a form of 'death penalty'.

obviously the term is meant to be self-defeating and absurd: it goes against the very notions of justice and fair trial that a cop can summarily execute someone (though some people genuinely do seem to think that being a drug-taker or petty criminal means you 'deserve' the death penalty, even if meted out without a jury and fair trial, ahem). but c'mon, it's not hard to decipher what's going on when people use the phrase in argument.

Last edited by uziq (2021-04-23 18:03:26)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

Was it hard to decipher mine? "A cop killed a man." "Uh, KILLED? Ackshully it was MURDER." No kidding. Jeffrey Dahmer killed people too. Sorry, murdered. Wouldn't want to muddle the issue.

I understand the bitter use of the term "death penalty." Where do you think I live? Still as long as we were getting technical about accurate phrasing, I thought I'd bring it up.
uziq
Member
+393|2365
you used the term 'technically'. well in technical terms it was second and third degree murder and so on, not 'a man died'. saying 'just a man dying' is almost laughably non-technical. a little care with your sentences, please? how about 'he was lung-dead as well as brain-dead and heart-dead'?

anyway.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n05 … he-veranda

really good and interesting overview of anthropology and 'race science' here.

That such a thing should have needed proving tells us something not only about early anthropology but about white America and European thought. Generation after generation of Europeans – and the Americans they became – had been trained to believe that other peoples were lacking or lagging behind, yet to attain to full humanity or civilisation. It’s not a coincidence that Boas and his collaborators, variously Jewish, Black, Indigenous, female and queer, were all outsiders of one kind or another to the mainstream of American society. That their ideas were found radical and strange is an indictment of their culture; that King’s book seems timely is an indictment of our own.

Last edited by uziq (2021-04-23 19:38:58)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

ANYWAY, is finding meaning through context good enough for you on every occasion except when someone makes a post on BF2S? I'll have to find an editor to run these through Just In Case. Got any suggestions for the Washington area?

https://i.imgur.com/HHy39LD.jpg

I played a game today. I know that's not very specific. Hopefully it doesn't burn you up too much trying to figure out if it was Tetris or Russian Roulette.

e/re: i've listened to youtube interviews with actual physicians who sometimes had a slip of the tongue in relation to their own field. it's usually taken in good humor afterwards. i, who never went to medical school, make one and it's the end times for uzique. stay tuned for the day when I make a slip-up when casually talking about the space shuttle's control panel online.

e2: turns out cardiac death is a literal medical term, but a specific one.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

'he was supposed to have' - supposed by who? you and derek chauvin's defense attorney? LOL.

that's what toxicologists are for, isn't it?

Prosecutors had called him to the stand to rebut the argument from Mr. Chauvin’s lawyer that fentanyl, a powerful opioid, had caused Mr. Floyd’s overdose. Prosecutors say Mr. Chauvin is responsible for Mr. Floyd’s death, and earlier on Thursday, a lung doctor testified that Mr. Chauvin’s knees on Mr. Floyd’s neck and back were significant factors in his death.

Dr. Isenschmid said that last year, in cases where N.M.S. Labs tested blood from a person who died and who had taken fentanyl, the average amount that scientists found was 16.8 nanograms per milliliter, about 50 percent higher than the amount found in Mr. Floyd’s blood. But Mr. Chauvin’s lawyer, Eric J. Nelson, noted that average was among people who died of any cause and had fentanyl in their system, not just overdoses. And, he pointed out, the median level of fentanyl among that group was slightly below Mr. Floyd’s.
woops!

fact-check!

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact … 239448002/
OK, so decontrusting your argument, Floyds fentanyl level was somewhere between 50% of the average level and greater than 100% of the median level of people who died with fentanyl in their system of any cause.

Also Floyd OD'd before and was advised to go to emergency but didn't.

It may be a secondary factor but its still a factor, and if I know anything about the kind of people who are called as expert witnesses its:
A) They often aren't real experts
B) They'll say whatever they're paid to say, people who say something inconvenient don't get called.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
Floyd had hypertensive heart disease, Baker said, "meaning his heart weighed more than it should." This meant Floyd's heart needed more oxygen than a normal heart and was "limited in its ability" to provide more oxygen when there was a demand for it.

In the midst of an altercation and being held to the ground, adrenaline would pour into the body, Baker said, making the heart beat faster.

"In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint and the neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take by virtue of those heart conditions," he said.

Chauvin's defense attorney, Eric Nelson, has argued that Floyd died as a result of drugs and preexisting health conditions. And under cross examination, Baker said he believed those factors played a role.

"So in your opinion," Nelson asked, "both the heart disease as well as the history of hypertension and the drugs that were in his system played a role in Mr. Floyd's death?"

"In my opinion, yes," Baker said.
https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/heart- … se-medical

So not the main causes but contributory.
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

It's hard to imagine the handicaps of a murder victim even being taken seriously in the trial of someone who isn't a police officer.

At the end of the day, is it like a rape thing? In the eyes of some pro-Chauvin commentators, was Floyd "asking" to be kneeled on?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
When its an argument between murder and manslaughter all contributory factors are taken into account.

A fit person who didn't have a self-inflicted drug addiction might have survived.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-04-24 18:52:13)

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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

It's been argued that a perfectly healthy person would have died.

If you knowingly use potentially lethal force like cutting off someone's air like that, and they die, well, fill in the blanks.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
Its arguable, but on balance it probably was murder.

The point is "It's hard to imagine the handicaps of a murder victim even being taken seriously" no imagination is involved, it happens in every similar case. whether or not police are involved.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5684|USA

The point is that a conviction in a case like this is usually an uphill battle. That's part of what pushes towards police reform in the states are all about. Being placed on paid administrative leave is practically a meme when it comes to a cop carelessly slaughtering a citizen.

NYPD POLICE ARE NO LONGER PROTECTED IN PUBLIC COURTS AFTER CITY COUNCIL PASSED POLICE REFORM LAW
https://whcommentline.com/nypd-police-a … law-27902/

PBA, of course wrote:

“New Yorkers were being shot and police were on the streets, all day and all night, trying to stop the bloodshed,” Lynch said. “Where are these City Council members? They are safe at home, hiding behind their screens and dreaming of new ways to give criminals a chance to pass for free. It would not be right unless the people of New York humiliated politicians to do their job.”
In all fairness, who's going to be there to fire tear gas at cops protesting against a state of affairs they don't agree with.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
LMAO

The French government has condemned an open letter signed by active soldiers that said the country was heading for "civil war" due to religious extremism.

About 1,000 servicemen and women, including some 20 retired generals, put their names to the letter.

It blamed "fanatic partisans" for creating divisions between communities, and said Islamists were taking over whole parts of the nation's territory.

Ministers have condemned the message published in a right-wing magazine.

The letter was first published on 21 April - the 60th anniversary of a failed coup d'état.

"The hour is grave, France is in peril," the signatories said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56899765
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uziq
Member
+393|2365
fascism never left the french establishment, especially the senior echelons of the military.

in the name of a 'free press', france has sustained an active tradition of nazi creeps, anti-semites, islamophobes, catholic right-wingers, even monarchists. not to mention UFO cults, paranormal quacks, kiddie fiddlers and any other number of weird ingrown maladapts.

giving these right-wing magazines the air of publicity leaves the same acrid taste in the mouth as when charlie hebdo cartoons become global talking points. charlie hebdo mostly being tasteless right-wing provocative smut. a sane and sensible society would know not to give them fucking attention.

i mean, really, rubbing your hands with glee when 20 - OMG! - ex-generals try to precipitate a political crisis over islam: how much of a bootlicking fascist can you be? a healthy society doesn't let national political conversation be dictated by retired military generals, dilbert.

Last edited by uziq (2021-04-28 09:05:08)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
I think Islamofascism in France was recognised to be a problem before this.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+393|2365
a problem for whom? 20 retired armchair generals and a bunch of the extreme right-wing commentariat? yes, certainly, crisis in france.

it can't possibly be related to francafrique or inconvenient issues like algeria, can it?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5019|eXtreme to the maX
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+393|2365
macron is pandering to le pen’s bloc. hardly a supermajority is it? do you think he has serious concerns or do you think he’s catering to right-wing populism? really make u think. highly credible stuff.

in other news nigel farage is the canary in the coal mine isn’t he? another highly coherent political view that wants maximum market internationalism and maximum nationalist protectionism all at the same time. bongggg! hanging out with the intellectual heavyweights aren’t you?
uziq
Member
+393|2365


quite an amazing arc that 'all gas no brakes' went from being the funniest youtuber in the edit to being the only video journalist doing shit worth a damn.

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