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Larssen
Member
+32|583
Beyond the above, outside governance & finances etc, I'm willing to listen to well sourced research from reputable organisations. And long standing reputation as a reputable source is hard to achieve and maintain. Requires a lot of due diligence.
Larssen
Member
+32|583

Shahter wrote:

Larssen wrote:

You can extend these sorts of activities & regulations to a given journalism focused non profit.
i can? thank you for your permission and a wall of text. your experience working for one "non profit organization" means, imo... well... nothing in the face of on-going infowars between capitalist elites around the world, in which every information manipulation tool, including "non profit organizations", is used for all kinds of purposes.
It's a way to express a simple statement of fact shahter, not a directive to you as a person.

That's not how any of this works. Non profits are not beholden to capitalist elites. This also includes any public university etc.

You seem a very strong believer in the exact same disinformation tactics your government uses whenever it's subject to any sort of (inter)national scrutiny: (1) attack the contents of any report by dismissing it & injecting "alternative facts" (2) attack the trustworthiness of the sources (3) attack the trustworthiness & independence of the writers. Anything that may be accusatory against the government is all lies that must be second-guessed. There is no accountability whatsoever, and actual incriminating facts will be drowned out by a deluge of statements / articles on the conspiracies driving the opponent.

The wild part is that the russians only need to imply. They don't deliver any sort of real proof and refutation. Simply on repeat the public insinuation that everyone is as corrupt as they are. It's dystopian as fuck and honestly, if things don't change chances are this approach is going to cause actual war within the next few decades. Many young  russians I have met are hopelessly paranoid & cynical. That will make for a great future generation of leaders.
uziq
Member
+308|2148


Last edited by uziq (2020-08-04 10:23:55)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+286|5471|Moscow, Russia

awsm video wrote:

some of them had been dissidents back in 1970s but had been powerfully influenced by the science fiction writings by the strugatsky brothers.
strugatsky brothers' writings had influence on putin's crew...
and you are telling me russian intelligence services are to blame for me not taking your so called "journalism" seriously? gtfo.

Last edited by Shahter (2020-08-04 10:34:48)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+308|2148
surkov has literally published very bad short stories under a pseudonym (natan dubovitsky) that are influenced by roadside picnic, among others.

is that little bit about 'the zone' really your takeaway from those videos? lmao. very pedantic.

i also wouldn't call an adam curtis movie 'journalism'. it's not the fucking news, it's entertainment.

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-04 10:55:12)

Larssen
Member
+32|583
oh but I expect you don't take anything published by westerners 'seriously'. Be it journalists, academics, public prosecutors, think tanks, research institutions, non profits, other governments - they're all driven by ulterior motives. It's all just capitalism & greed at work.

MH17? Lies, Ukraine did it
The war in Ukraine? EU's fault, Russia did nothing
Election meddling? Didn't happen, western propaganda
etc. etc.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-08-04 10:46:43)

Larssen
Member
+32|583

uziq wrote:

i also wouldn't call an adam curtis movie 'journalism'. it's not the fucking news, it's entertainment.
The power of nightmares was fantastic though. Missed the mark in some crucial respects but nonetheless a great documentary.
uziq
Member
+308|2148
he makes compelling and interesting through-lines across various disciplines and media. it would not pass muster in an academic paper and he is NOT an 'investigative journalist'. it's thought provoking stuff, though, sure, even if he is a little slapdash and careless. that's rather the whole point and part of the fun.

shahter dismissing the clip because of one mislaid or stray reference to the strugatskys is just funny. there ARE similarities between their descriptions in 'roadside picnic' and, say, the total absence of truth and accountability for the shadow conflict in ukraine. he makes a fun point of comparison.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+741|5381|United States of America
It is a strange "No Particular Night or Morning" sort of mindset. You don't personally know and see what these journalists have seen, so how can one trust them because it's possible that a journalist could make something up. The fact that there's a disincentive to do so if you make outlandish and easily debunked claims notwithstanding.
uziq
Member
+308|2148

Dilbert_X wrote:

But blacks are poorer wherever they go.
black people in the UK could be legally banned from renting in nice areas or being employed in stable jobs until about 1968. enoch powell's 'rivers of blood speech' was about then.

i suggest you look up the UK's race relations acts of 1965 and 1968. don't worry, it's so recent it hardly even counts as pernicious 'study of history'.

https://www.ashfordplace.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/listing_default/public/IMAGE15_banner_0.jpg?itok=BfacXTcG

so people legally banned by a 'colour bar' until the 1970s still, on the whole, inhabit the lower rungs of society today, a mere two generations later.

wow, who'da thunk it?? did your family start from sub-council housing slums and itinerant work in the 1970s, dilbert?

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-05 22:59:03)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
One grandfather was a coal-miner the other was a captain in the army.

Two generations later we're doing OK, every grandchild has an advanced degree.

Amazing.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
now think about how your family never had to confront racist laws or attitudes. you're getting there!

a captain in the army is a very established and respected position in society, by the way. what a story of struggle against the odds!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
Just think, black people are able to escape racism by moving to Africa whenever they like.

And a captain in the army during WW2 wasn't exactly a plum job.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-08-05 23:22:12)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
err, doing service in ww2 was one of the greatest generational lifts in all of UK history. demobbed servicemen from modest backgrounds could go to oxford or cambridge with easier access than at any time previous. with modest prior education, essentially all of the universities and 'old' careers in public service/civics and governance, and civilian life were open to them. you're going to have to think a little bit harder about social mobility if you want to be taken seriously.

why should a jamaican 'go back to africa' after they've been forcefully taken to the west indies and exploited for their FREE labour for generations? i think it's about time they were allowed to come to the 'mother' country that so beneficently 'allowed' them into her empire, to have an opportunity of those all-so-desirable jobs as bus drivers, etc. what insane demands these people make!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Bus_Boycott

Bristol in the early 1960s had an estimated 3,000 residents of West Indian origin, some of whom had served in the British military during the Second World War and some who had emigrated to the UK more recently. A large number of West Indians lived in the area around City Road in St Pauls, suffered discrimination in housing and employment and some encountered violence from Teddy Boy gangs of white youths
i wonder how their treatment compared to your grandfather who served?

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-05 23:37:22)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
If my ancestors had been forcibly moved somewhere and enslaved I probably wouldn't want to hang around there, I don't know.

Are there many jews still living around Krakow these days? It wouldn't make a lot of sense would it.

My grandfather didn't live in Bristol, he wasn't an idiot.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
there is a sizeable jewish community in berlin/germany, dilbert. many new synagogues are being built.

oh -- and poland is home to one of the fastest-growing jewish populations in the world, even with its currently grim political climate.
https://time.com/5534494/poland-jews-re … -semitism/

you are a very silly man and i think you should educate yourself. not big and not clever.

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-05 23:52:13)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
Krakow is in Poland though.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
poland has a jewish community, which is growing. what is your actual point?

all former subjects of the british empire were granted an opportunity of citizenship of the commonwealth and invited to make a life in the UK. that's kind of the compact and deal that was cut in exchange for, you know, centuries of imperial extraction, exploitation, and churning up their young male populations for the mother country's wars. fair cricket, dilbert. if your family had been enslaved, exploited and abused for generations in order to build the staggering wealth of the home country, i think it's quite reasonable to feel entitled for an opportunity of your own to work for a living and make a life there. that seems fair. it seems like a very mild demand, to be honest: equal citizenship after years of violence and cruelty?

again, these are people protesting for the right to equal opportunity and equal pay, to work hard and generate their own success. not, like, say, the slaveowning class and families who were paid off and made multi-millionaires overnight by state compensation for their 'losses'.

i'm not sure how you could even articulate it as a problem or a threat to your existence in any way. you just have a very fragile white identity.

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-06 00:10:27)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
I don't know, I'm not sure I'd want to live amongst racists if it really is so unbearable.
Why live amongst racist whites when they could live exclusively with their fellow blacks?

Pretty well all the equal rights have been enshrined in law for decades if not centuries, the problem is even with that plus affirmative action it doesn't seem to be helping them - thats what they're finding annoying.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
jewish communities/shtetls have existed in (now) germany and poland for about 1500 years, give or take depending on the region. why wouldn't they eventually return to the place where their ancestors have lived for millennia? what exactly gives you your fucking innate right to australia, or britishness, or anything else for that matter? the normans only arrived in 1066. some jewish communities have been in mittel-europe and the east for longer than that, you moron.

equal rights have not been enshrined in law for centuries, that is categorically not true. women only gained the vote in the west's most influential democracies around a 100 years ago (after an often-times violent and terroristic protest movement, a fact you conveniently ignored earlier). many legal battles are still within living memory. legislation has been passed in the 60s, 70s, 80s ... and new human rights legislation is coming into effect in the 21st century from the ECHR all the time. do you really think a family or community is going to leverage itself out of centuries of disadvantage and discrimination in the space of 20 years? i don't think most families could even leverage themselves up the educational or property ladder in that space of time; many don't.

generational poverty and disadvantage exists across many white communities in the UK/europe. the same dynamics applies. a law being passed somewhere or a piece of top-down policy being directed their way doesn't transform their lives and fortunes in 10 years. it just doesn't happen. you have an extremely myopic view of human beings. it is very, very silly and completely unrealistic. it's amazing that all these things need to be patiently explained to you. 'b-b-b-but there is violence and looting sometimes! protesting is wrong!' 'but a law was passed, suddenly all businesses now have fair hiring practices and pay women and minorities equally, overnight, of their own volition!' 'they have equal rights written under law, what excuse do they have for a lack of opportunity?'

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-06 02:35:29)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
Women got the vote in Australia and most countries with no violence whatsoever, and I said decades if not centuries, bearing in mind when slavery was abolished etc.

I didn't say protesting was wrong, just that violence doesn't typically and shouldn't get results.

All the rights are in place, I know that mandatory quotas are next, I doubt that will have any real impact either. Will that help or encourage people to slack off more?
What to try when thats failed?
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
australia is the world's youngest western-style democracy, no surprises it was trivially easy to give women the vote and to recognise the 19th century's ongoing worldwide suffrage movement in a relatively peaceful way. there were no established interests, no entrenched regimes, no antique constitutions or laws to repeal or amend (of course, the aboriginals might feel differently about the 'violence-free' establishment of your democracy).

no, suffrage did not come as easily and peaceably in 'most countries'. you continually elide and fudge historical details when you haven't done the reading. the simple fact is that in most of the older western democracies, the suffrage struggle had a 'radical' component, which involved militancy, protest, violence, and even bomb-planting and things that would now be called 'terrorism'. it's a part of the history, and which extends not just from women's rights but to worker's rights, too. destruction of property, bombings, mass protest, etc. 'black friday' was literally a campaign of smashing windows.

the system is clearly and evidently broken for a certain group of people, and it's not about workplace quotas. it's about the overwhelming numbers of their ethnicity who are killed by police and incarcerated, and a total misapplication/asymmetry of the law. white people have an undeniable privilege here; we don't fear for our lives over routine traffic stops, we don't get kneeled on and thrown to the ground with anywhere near the same levels of casual and institutionalized violence.

what do you suggest, dilbert? 'go back to africa' is not an answer. it is fucking stupid and you need to grow up.

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-06 03:44:23)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,698|4802|eXtreme to the maX
There may well be no solution, pandering to the violent and giving them a free run probably isn't it.

From what I can see the BLM crowd have no articulated suggestions either.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+308|2148
'pandering to the violent' --> BLM are not violent.

the BLM crowd have articulated no suggestions? LMAO. they have an ENTIRE PROGRAMME of suggestions for defunding the police and diverting the funds into community engagement, social welfare, education, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police

you REALLY haven't been paying any attention, have you? just slandering them as 'violent intimidating thugs'. it's really not good enough, mate.

Last edited by uziq (2020-08-06 04:27:14)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+286|5471|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

they have an ENTIRE PROGRAMME of suggestions for defunding the police and diverting the funds into community engagement, social welfare, education, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police
so, it's the police that should take a hit. /facepalm
these people have no idea where their problems are coming from - not in the slightest.

Last edited by Shahter (2020-08-06 08:22:07)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

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