now link a study with demonstrably more rigor that supports your position. go on.
you really think that if black and white people swapped positions, that it would be complete carnage? if the UK was historically a black nation, and oxbridge was a historically black institution, and white people came from the sub-saharan plains... you think the blacks would be living in a cesspit of crime and ignorance? lol. unbelievable. a racist little live-at-home. what a sad figure.Dilbert_X wrote:
Of course, however take two genetically distinct populations, raise them exactly the same and I also guarantee you you'll get very different results when you measure pretty well any phenotypical variable.Spark wrote:
except no because the brain adapts after birth. take the same genetic population, separate them at birth, place one set in (say) norway and the other in chad, i guarantee you'll get very different "intelligence" results.Dilbert_X wrote:
Environment drives genetic evolution by selecting for phenotype.
Come on, this is super-simple stuff.
show me a single reputable sociological study which suggests this with respect to intelligence. one.Dilbert_X wrote:
Of course, however take two genetically distinct populations, raise them exactly the same and I also guarantee you you'll get very different results when you measure pretty well any phenotypical variable.Spark wrote:
except no because the brain adapts after birth. take the same genetic population, separate them at birth, place one set in (say) norway and the other in chad, i guarantee you'll get very different "intelligence" results.Dilbert_X wrote:
Environment drives genetic evolution by selecting for phenotype.
Come on, this is super-simple stuff.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
None of that makes the slightest bit of sense.Uzique wrote:
you really think that if black and white people swapped positions, that it would be complete carnage? if the UK was historically a black nation, and oxbridge was a historically black institution, and white people came from the sub-saharan plains... you think the blacks would be living in a cesspit of crime and ignorance?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
you just said raise two genetically different groups in the same environment and there will be radically different outcomes.Dilbert_X wrote:
None of that makes the slightest bit of sense.Uzique wrote:
you really think that if black and white people swapped positions, that it would be complete carnage? if the UK was historically a black nation, and oxbridge was a historically black institution, and white people came from the sub-saharan plains... you think the blacks would be living in a cesspit of crime and ignorance?
i'm saying, if you think the black genetic group were raised in the western environment, enjoying the white majority's position/luxury... you really think there would be a huge, radical difference? i find that unbelievable.
After what happened to Shockley, such studies became verboten.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
now link a study with demonstrably more rigor that supports your position. go on.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
shockley was a racist. just because someone has a nobel prize, doesn't mean they're a beacon of reason in all matters. the fallacy you are committing is finding it unbelievable that a smart person - a genius, even - could harbor human resentments. so instead it becomes a grand scientific-establishment conspiracy to 'silence' unbelievers in the liberal propagandist project. oh come on. heidegger was one of the greatest philosophers of all time, but he was an out-and-out nazi fantasist. sartre is the 20th centurys greatest intellectual figure in humanism, yet he supported maoist doctrines to the end, even when it was shown that mao was a mass murderer. smart people have dumb blindspots. to pin down the all-so-suspicious lack of scientific evidence for this theory as 'because it's verboten' is laughable.
This looks interesting
That evolution has played a role in development of 'intelligence' and social behaviour in humans is reasonably well accepted.
That populations divided and separated will continue to evolve separately and differently is I think a fairly central plank of modern biological theory.
Which of the two do you want to nitpick over?
The bottom line is we don't have a solid definition of intelligence and at this point have no idea of which genes play a role.Genetic foundations of human intelligence.
Deary IJ, Johnson W, Houlihan LM.
SourceDepartment of Psychology, Centre for Cognitive Ageing and Cognitive Epidemiology, University of Edinburgh, 7 George Square, Edinburgh EH8 9JZ, Scotland
Individual differences in intelligence (cognitive abilities) are a prominent aspect of human psychology, and play a substantial role in influencing important life outcomes. Their phenotypic structure-as described by the science of psychometrics-is well understood and well replicated. Approximately half of the variance in a broad range of cognitive abilities is accounted by a general cognitive factor (g), small proportions of cognitive variance are caused by separable broad domains of mental function, and the substantial remainder is caused by variance that is unique to highly specific cognitive skills. The heritability of g is substantial. It increases from a low value in early childhood of about 30%, to well over 50% in adulthood, which continues into old age. Despite this, there is still almost no replicated evidence concerning the individual genes, which have variants that contribute to intelligence differences. Here, we describe the human intelligence phenotype, summarise the evidence for its heritability, provide an overview of and comment on molecular genetic studies, and comment on future progress in the field.
That evolution has played a role in development of 'intelligence' and social behaviour in humans is reasonably well accepted.
That populations divided and separated will continue to evolve separately and differently is I think a fairly central plank of modern biological theory.
Which of the two do you want to nitpick over?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
i think your little racist fantasy operates on the assumption that some continents/lines of evolutionary division have more 'knowledge capital' or 'intellectual capacity' than others. not disagreeing that african people have evolved down a whole long descent of ancestors quite distinct from the whities who broke off and crossed the gap... but what i am disagreeing with is that one group somehow evolved a super-intelligence, whilst the other didn't. i don't really understand you on that one.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-03-27 06:03:21)
No, I'm just saying that such studies are not done today, and it's largely because people in the scientific community don't want to be associated with Shockley. Shockley was a racist, and an idiot when it came to this topic, but he also set back any meaningful investigation on the topic because he showed what happens when you go against the herd.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
shockley was a racist. just because someone has a nobel prize, doesn't mean they're a beacon of reason in all matters. the fallacy you are committing is finding it unbelievable that a smart person - a genius, even - could harbor human resentments. so instead it becomes a grand scientific-establishment conspiracy to 'silence' unbelievers in the liberal propagandist project. oh come on. heidegger was one of the greatest philosophers of all time, but he was an out-and-out nazi fantasist. sartre is the 20th centurys greatest intellectual figure in humanism, yet he supported maoist doctrines to the end, even when it was shown that mao was a mass murderer. smart people have dumb blindspots. to pin down the all-so-suspicious lack of scientific evidence for this theory as 'because it's verboten' is laughable.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Jesus christ do some research, and it's not just Greeks; pretty much all of northern Mediterranean ethnicity are wogs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
i have no idea what the fuck this isCybargs wrote:
first it was the brits hating other europeans, then it was the other europeans + brits hating on wogs (greek), then wogs, euro's and brits were hating on asians, then everyone started hating on lebo's, then everyone including lebos start hating on boat people. it's just an integrated cycle of lolracism.AussieReaper wrote:
Don't be racist cybargs.
i have never ever heard a greek person referred to as a "wog". lol hahahahah
Next you'll be telling me coon is not a cheese.
i think if strong evidence came up to suggest this theory, someone wouldn't hold back on a breakthrough like that because of a "herd mentality". that's fanciful. and pretty convenient for the white supremacists, who want to pin the lack of evidence on vague bogeymen theories.
"wogs" is an australian term. cybargs is talking about the "british and europeans turning against the greeks". what? at what point in history did europe start hating greece? last time i checked, most british people were helping the greeks to fight for independence throughout the colonial era. we have never called meditteranean people "wogs". it seems to be the same as american people calling italian-americans "guidos". we don't call italians guidos in europe. you do some fucking research, you menk.DrunkFace wrote:
Jesus christ do some research, and it's not just Greeks; pretty much all of northern Mediterranean ethnicity are wogs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
i have no idea what the fuck this isCybargs wrote:
first it was the brits hating other europeans, then it was the other europeans + brits hating on wogs (greek), then wogs, euro's and brits were hating on asians, then everyone started hating on lebo's, then everyone including lebos start hating on boat people. it's just an integrated cycle of lolracism.
i have never ever heard a greek person referred to as a "wog". lol hahahahah
Next you'll be telling me coon is not a cheese.
When have I said 'super-intelligence'?
All I've said is some groups are marginally smarter than others, on the average, and have different social behaviour (each of which are a mix of nature and nurture....)
All I've said is some groups are marginally smarter than others, on the average, and have different social behaviour (each of which are a mix of nature and nurture....)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzi, it wouldn't bother me if a study came out showing that black people had superior intellects to whites, or that asians ran circles around the lot of us. I can't speak for dilbert, but in my case, it's pure intellectual curiosity. I don't feel it's a topic that should be gated off just because it might hurt peoples feelings, or it has bad prior associations, that's all.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
but those groups are not marginally smarter than the others based on an innate genetic superiority, attained through centuries of breeding. if a black person can close the gap with a white person's IQ in the space of 20 years, surely that shows this 'long developed line of evolutionary difference' is bullshit? this "marginally smarter because of breeding" talk is bullshit. all the studies clearly show that some groups are "marginally smarter" than others because of environment. something that can be fixed in a single generation. evolution and genetics don't really operate on that timescale.Dilbert_X wrote:
When have I said 'super-intelligence'?
All I've said is some groups are marginally smarter than others, on the average, and have different social behaviour (each of which are a mix of nature and nurture....)
I was talking from an Australian perspective ffs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
"wogs" is an australian term. cybargs is talking about the "british and europeans turning against the greeks". what? at what point in history did europe start hating greece? last time i checked, most british people were helping the greeks to fight for independence throughout the colonial era. we have never called meditteranean people "wogs". it seems to be the same as american people calling italian-americans "guidos". we don't call italians guidos in europe. you do some fucking research, you menk.DrunkFace wrote:
Jesus christ do some research, and it's not just Greeks; pretty much all of northern Mediterranean ethnicity are wogs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
i have no idea what the fuck this is
i have never ever heard a greek person referred to as a "wog". lol hahahahah
Next you'll be telling me coon is not a cheese.
At the beginning of the 20th century Australia had a large influx of immigrants from Greece.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
"wogs" is an australian term. cybargs is talking about the "british and europeans turning against the greeks". what? at what point in history did europe start hating greece? last time i checked, most british people were helping the greeks to fight for independence throughout the colonial era. we have never called meditteranean people "wogs". it seems to be the same as american people calling italian-americans "guidos". we don't call italians guidos in europe. you do some fucking research, you menk.DrunkFace wrote:
Jesus christ do some research, and it's not just Greeks; pretty much all of northern Mediterranean ethnicity are wogs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
i have no idea what the fuck this is
i have never ever heard a greek person referred to as a "wog". lol hahahahah
Next you'll be telling me coon is not a cheese.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
so why are you talking about "british and european" people hating greeks? that's australian people hating incoming greeks. if a racist ideology developed in resistance to australian immigration, that isn't "british and european" hate. that's people hating from the perspective of settled aussies. there has never been a racist slant against greek people in europe.Cybargs wrote:
I was talking from an Australian perspective ffs.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
"wogs" is an australian term. cybargs is talking about the "british and europeans turning against the greeks". what? at what point in history did europe start hating greece? last time i checked, most british people were helping the greeks to fight for independence throughout the colonial era. we have never called meditteranean people "wogs". it seems to be the same as american people calling italian-americans "guidos". we don't call italians guidos in europe. you do some fucking research, you menk.DrunkFace wrote:
Jesus christ do some research, and it's not just Greeks; pretty much all of northern Mediterranean ethnicity are wogs.
Next you'll be telling me coon is not a cheese.
In the typical academic climate in most countries I would expect that A) Any academc would find it next to impossible to get funding to pursue such a project, if they even applied they'd likely be drummed out of any university fairly smartly and B) If they ever published anything they'd be loudly shouted down - just as you're doing now even though you have no real evidence, only incoherent pseudo-science to back your position while the most basic tenets of evolutionary theory are against you.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
i think if strong evidence came up to suggest this theory, someone wouldn't hold back on a breakthrough like that because of a "herd mentality". that's fanciful. and pretty convenient for the white supremacists, who want to pin the lack of evidence on vague bogeymen theories.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
I was talking about the British and Euro immigrants HATING on the greek immigrants in Australia. jesus christ. Read the previous posts =.=Uzique The Lesser wrote:
so why are you talking about "british and european" people hating greeks?.
Last edited by Cybargs (2013-03-27 06:16:52)
Important bits bolded.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
but those groups are not marginally smarter than the others based on an innate genetic superiority, attained through centuries of breeding. if a black person can close the gap with a white person's IQ in the space of 20 years, surely that shows this 'long developed line of evolutionary difference' is bullshit? this "marginally smarter because of breeding" talk is bullshit.Dilbert_X wrote:
When have I said 'super-intelligence'?
All I've said is some groups are marginally smarter than others, on the average, and have different social behaviour (each of which are a mix of nature and nurture....)
Different studies produce different results, you can't say all of them point one way, they clearly don't.all the studies clearly show that some groups are "marginally smarter" than others because of environment. something that can be fixed in a single generation. evolution and genetics don't really operate on that timescale.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-03-27 06:17:01)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
my point is, their new status as australians, and their ideological position of hating newcomers, shows their identity politics as being resolutely AUSSIE, not BRITISH or EURO. british or euro descent, maybe, but that racism has nothing to do with 'britishness' or 'europeanness'. it's to do with 'australians' hating a new generation/batch of immigrants. your wording sucks.Cybargs wrote:
I was talking about the British and Euro immigrants HATING on the greek immigrants. jesus christ.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
so why are you talking about "british and european" people hating greeks?.
Just as 'Americans' don't like to see Mexicans hopping the border.
Its fairly common in most cultures to hate the next wave.
Its fairly common in most cultures to hate the next wave.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Irish-Americans should never bitch about mexicans ever.