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2006-09-01 04:23:19
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6903|BC, Canada
omark i would consider pest eradication/hunting use  to be a weapon not a tool.
as for the equipment you have me there. but competion use is far from what we are talking about.
im a bit to tired to get into that bit right now.
i never said i was against knives,  you can use anything you want to kill someone, but not everything is designed to kill. there has to be a line drawn somewhere. and thats where i draw it.
2006-09-01 04:32:17
Pte.OMARK
Member
+2|6693
is poison a weapon when used on weeds? we agree to disagree on that one hey.

we now have knife bans here because of thier popularity amongst people who can not get guns legally or otherwise. can you believe that? you need to have proof of age (18+) to purchase a steak knife! (any knife for that matter) and caryying one is instantly regarded as possesion of a deadly weapon. pulling out a swiss army knife is intent.........
2006-09-01 04:36:31
jarhedch
Member
+12|6914|Aberdeen, Uk, SF Bay Area 1st

Pte.OMARK wrote:

most people killed in the home by "defensive" owners (world wide) are the owners children who find the gun belonging to a daddy or mummy that has the same DUMBASS p.o.v as you, or more tragically are accidently shoot when the paranoid adult hears a noise in the dark. kiddy finds gun, kiddy play w/ gun (just like tv) and kiddy shoots self, or other kiddie/s. remember kids dont understand all this killing is really bad stuff.......look at these school shootings around the world if those guns were properly secured they never would have happened.
I have heard that argument about peple being killed accidentally than with real intent, yet no one has EVER been able to back that up with actual fact. It's like the argument "if you have a gun you're more likely to use it." well, duh, if i have gun i am definitly going to use it. and how can i be liekly use a gun if i dont own one? Point of the matter is, if someone comes in and threatens my family with rape, murder, abuse, etc, i have no issue at all balsting their brains out across my wall. My only decision to make would be what caliber to use. Guns have a purpose, and it's no conicidence that the rise in crime i see in britain comes with tighter and tighter controls on weapons. They are now trying to ban the sale of knives across teh UK, and sell only kitchen knives with rounded points instead of actual points. It won't take a brakn surgeoun to decide what grit of griding wheel to use top put a point back into it. and personally, i'd rather be shot than stabbed, and spend the rest of my life in jail knowing i protected my family than live my life free knowing i failed to do the most basic responsibility in life, protect the ones you love. Those of you who claim you feel safe in your streets in your utopian european ideal, are only fooling yourself. Your streets are dangerous, and petty crime is far higher in europe than in the US. I felt safer on the streets of Oakland than i do on the streets of any major city in the UK, including aberdeen where i live, because i have no method of defense. And those of you who believe your police will save you, give them a call and see how long it takes to respond. I can grab a pistol and have a robber/murderer bleeding out on my floor before the 911 call is picked up on the other end.
2006-09-01 04:38:46
Twist
Too old to be doing this sh*t
+103|6768|Little blue planet, milky way
OMG... That "article" is sooooo full of bull that I almost vomited while reading it. At first I thought "how can an intelligent person argue like this ?" Then I read on and thought "How can normal people THINK like this". And after a fashion I started wondering "Exactly what is this person a doctor of ? Proctology ?"

Then I read the end.....

Dr. Thompson is Executive Director of Utah Gun Owners Alliance
And THEN I understood... She's just a gun nut with a universty degree herself. Amazing she got to graduate whit her logic and communications skills.

Dont get me wrong, I own guns myself. But I'd NEVER EVER talk crap like this bitch.
2006-09-01 04:39:40
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6903|BC, Canada
to me the poision is comparitive to the bullet, it is what causes the damage, but not the tool you use to spread it that would be your spray gun or what ever. that is what  i would compare to the gun, which is what we are talking about. but anyway that depends on the poision is used on the weeds. if it is a poision that is there to say kill the gardener when he tries to pull the weeds than yes it is a weapon. if it is a poision to kill the weed then a tool. and before you get into plants are living things too, well don't. even the biggest bleeding heart dosent call that murder.
2006-09-01 04:40:03
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6898
One of the main reasons that there is a gun problem in the UK is because you can buy deactivated handguns then file the pin.  I could do it if I wanted to, easily.  And you can get hold of bullet kits and make them yourself.  If anyone in the UK is planning a murder, here's a good starting point: http://www.thegunshop.co.uk/reloaders-s … smolds.htm

I'm sure that given time I could even reactivate this AK-47 + scope which can be purchased perfectly legally: http://www.classicfirearms.co.uk/ak47optical.html, although revolvers are much easier (think how simple they are).  Of course, the discerning assassin would be better off going for something like this: http://www.classicfirearms.co.uk/hksilence.html

I'm suprised more people aren't aware how easy it is to get a gun in the UK, without even needing to know any criminals.  All the materials and tools can be acquired with ease through legal sources.

So when you point out that 'criminals will get guns anyway' you might want to consider that most of these guns are bought legally and converted, and if the sale of deactivated weapons was also outlawed then it would be a hell of a lot harder.  In that respect the gun laws in the UK don't go far enough.  Random shootings are very low, most shootings are over the type of business which can't be sorted through the police and as such law abiding citizens have little to worry about.
2006-09-01 04:41:58
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6903|BC, Canada

Twist wrote:

OMG... That "article" is sooooo full of bull that I almost vomited while reading it. At first I thought "how can an intelligent person argue like this ?" Then I read on and thought "How can normal people THINK like this". And after a fashion I started wondering "Exactly what is this person a doctor of ? Proctology ?"

Then I read the end.....

Dr. Thompson is Executive Director of Utah Gun Owners Alliance
And THEN I understood... She's just a gun nut with a universty degree herself. Amazing she got to graduate whit her logic and communications skills.

Dont get me wrong, I own guns myself. But I'd NEVER EVER talk crap like this bitch.
yes i noticed that bit before i started, so i didnt even bother to read on. i just googled her.
she is a fanatic.
2006-09-01 04:43:12
Vietbong
Member
+0|6693
I'm sure guns are great fun to shoot. Oh, the hours I used to whittle away shooting cans with my electric BB gun.

If you ban firearms, it won't stop people from trying to murder other people. Just that people are more likely to survive stab wounds than bullet wounds.

---

Suppose a guy tries to drag you into the bushes for a little self-indulgent entertainment. What'd be wrong with using pepper spray, a tazer or any other small, non-lethal defensive weapon? Or maybe getting fit and learning martial arts?

Sure, the rapist could also be better at hand-to-hand fighting than you are. Is this the time to pack a gun to equalise the situation?

But what if the rapist has a gun himself? Are you going to get the first shot off or make him back off because you're the good guy and he's just some thug with a gun? Rubbish. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.

---

Few things entertain me more than people claiming their .50 cal rifles, Ingrams, Desert Eagles and AR-15s are for self-defense. Self defense against what exactly? Robbers? Rapists? Russians? Or is it just terribly fun for your target-shooting weapon to give you painful sores on your hands or have terribly-bad range and accuracy?

Last edited by Vietbong (2006-09-01 04:44:53)

2006-09-01 04:45:31
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6929|United States of America
When, in fact, did this firearm ban sweep over the rest of the world exactly? I believe the time period may have something to do with the fact that no one is familiar with them because they didn't grow up with that part of a culture. If you walk into a room and there's a 9mm sitting on the table, does your heart skip a beat? Are you afraid of it? If so, you just aren't comfortable with the fact that it is possible that someone can kill you with that.

Eh....remember the shirt Mr. Larson has in Happy Gilmore?
https://www.founditemclothing.com/t-shirts/gfx/guns-shirt.jpg
2006-09-01 04:46:49
PspRpg-7
-
+961|6942

Oh. My. God.
2006-09-01 04:50:49
Pte.OMARK
Member
+2|6693
i'm as willing as the next person to protect my family and that is a DUTY we ALL have regardless of nationality, but i dont believe leaving a gun under the pillow is a good idea.

my house has been burgaled twice, have been victim of stabbing on the street and PERSONALLY i still cant see the need for a private civ to carry or have an unsecured firearm in thier posession. sure i have two nice timbers and a knife for the worst case scenarios....

we cant back it up because different nations states class such things diff. negligent manslaughter, unintentional  homicide, accidental homicide or manslaughter etc etc. anti gun groups fiddle the the numbers too much to be trusted just as the gun assoc's do the reverse whenever the are lobbying for this or that. unfortunately "independant" researchers have to earn thier "grants" somewhere, so i never post statistics as they are always open to so much liberal interpretation.

we have tightened/tightening gun laws and crime has been relatively stable across the board just like canada
2006-09-01 04:57:02
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7037

ts-pulsar wrote:

It's a long ass read, but very interesting, curious to see the different opinions on it.
Agreed.  It's a very long read and it's very interesting especially:

ts-pulsar wrote:

The average American supports freedom of speech and freedom of religion, whether or not he chooses to exercise them. He supports fair trials, whether or not he's ever been in a courtroom. He likewise needs to understand that self- defense is an essential right,
I just wonder about self-defense and gun-carrying Americans.  To take the example quoted in the article, if you and your wife were out shopping and two knife carrying hoodlums threaten to rape your wife, you have a gun, what do you do?  Would you shoot them?  Would you kill them?

It's interesting that a religious group has asked the question.  I would expect them to turn the other cheek and remember that one of the 10 Commandments was "thou shalt not kill".  Sure, that's a Christian value from a Christian book but don't Jews also abide by that one too?

As for freedom of speech and freedom of religion, from what I've seen they (average Americans) pick and choose who that can apply to.
2006-09-01 05:01:00
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7074

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

Diray wrote:

You keep your guns in america, and I'll be happy. No offence.

1) As Nehil said, ''Less guns <-> Less murders''.
I guess that applies to most of europe/scandinavia.

2) I admit that I didn't read it all, but so far, I haven't seen any ''For us citizens only''.

3) You can have all the restrictions and licenses you want, but there will always be that odd sheep, or three, who manage to bypass them and go out on a killing spree.
1) This doesn't work in America, its too broad.  The ones that work are

LESS criminals = Less Murder
LESS criminals with guns = Less Murder

           BUT

LESS GUNS = less guns for LAWFULLY abiding citizens = MORE Murder, citizens can't defend themselves properly.  While the first mantra you quoted works so well in Europe, there are MUCH more criminals here in the U.S. and a higher crime rate, which has absolutely nothing to do with firearms.  I suggest you read More Guns, Less Crime by a very well known and respected author John Lott. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de … 6?v=glance
Actually compair the US to the UK

UK has MORE crime
UK has less guns in the hands of criminals
UK has VASTLY less guns in the hands of law abiding citizens
UK has less homicides

Even though the ratio of guns in criminal hand/lawful ownership is greater we have less murder

hence, LESS GUNS = less guns for LAWFULLY abiding citizens = LESS DEATHS
2006-09-01 05:08:21
sneeky_fluff
Member
+1|6743
Funny that the crime rate in the UK with refence to firearms is higher (by the way to what statistics are you refering? total number of crimes, proportion of gun crimes within violent crime? proportion of gun crimes with reference to number of murders? ....theres a long list) when owning a firearm is illegal. The states, owning a gun is legal. The UK, owning a gun is illegal, seems like theres bound to be more crime to me considering that holding a gun outside of proper venues is a crime (correct me if I am wrong on this count).
2006-09-01 05:10:27
De_Jappe
Triarii
+432|6772|Belgium

GotMex? wrote:

De_Jappe wrote:

Isn't it a fact that at country's/places where people carry guns, there are more murders. How much more proof do you need. I'm tired of reading dumbasses with a gun opinion on how they are finally safe now that they have  gun.

Most of the guys who have a gun are not responsible enough to have them and abuse it.

There are other things to make you feel more safe. Don't walk alone at night for example. Don't underestimate the power of screaming.

Imho people with guns are just trying to be 'cool', or can't think logic. Yes, that's the kind of people that carry guns.
1. No, it's not a fact. There are more murders where people commit more murders. Not where there are guns. The correlation is that a gun is an excellent way to perpetrate a murder and so it's the weapon of choice for murderers. Take away the guns and you end up with wives who kill their cheating husbands with a knife, or with a good blow to the head. You don't get rid of that murderous instinct.

2. Ok, I can't say I disagree with that. But then again most people who drive a car aren't responsible enough to do it. My point... well they don't correlate really but I still think there's a lot of dumbasses behind the wheel and I just wanted to point that out.

3. Here is where I completelly disagree and decided I wanted to reply to your post. Why should I not be able to walk alone at night? And screw that, here in Mex you can't walk alone in the middle of the day some places. I don't want to have to scream and hope that it scares the guy away. I want to be able to point my gun into a the guys face, that screams volumes louder than anyones voice. I don't want to accept that my country is unsafe and I just have to deal with it, I'd rather be allowed to take action. And for those of you that would reply "it's the polices job to protect you". Well yes it is, and I trust the police when I was living in Texas, but here the police can be crap so no, I don't trust them to do their job. But still, that doesn't mean that I'll go prancing around at night because I know it is inherently more unsafe than walking with a group or in the day. I just want to have that option.

4. I can think logically, and I have a gun. I don't carry it on me because I don't feel the need to where I used to live (Dallas, TX), but now that I am in Mexico I wish that I was allowed to carry it but I can't (Fucking gun laws). And I find gun shooting fun and cool, but I didn't buy one to act cool or to feel cool, I just enjoy recreational shooting and there is nothing wrong with that.
1. I agree that people will find other ways to kill but it happens faster with a gun than searching for a decent knife and kill then. With a gun it's only pulling the finger, it can even happen by accident. With a knife you have to stab hard to kill someone with it. Why should you raise the risk? And then again, if I was a burglar and  suddenly the guy appears next to me. I would shoot faster if he had a gun than when he has no gun, then you can point the gun and run out. If he his pointing the gun at you, you shoot...

2. That's also true, sadly.

3. So would you walk on those places if you had a gun? So yes, what if the guy also has a gun? What if it's not one guy, but suddenly there are 4 guys with a gun pointing at you. Happy funeral day. They are more likely to shoot you if you have a gun, than if you have no gun.

4. I have nothing against shooting on shooting tracks as sport or fun, but I have something against wearing it on the street or in your house. You have it, so you are more likely to use it. The risk of innocent people to get hurt is more likely. Have you ever seen bowling for columbine? (think it was that movie, not really sure).

5. I ask again, How many times have you really NEEDED your gun to protect yourself? I kindly ask that you reread my whole previous post again, as you left out some of my most valuable arguments there when you quoted me.
2006-09-01 05:19:22
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7074

jarhedch wrote:

Nehil wrote:

Also if you want less murders and crimes you have to change the mentality towards guns, and really, think about it, if you wanted to buy a illegal gun, do you know where to go and who to ask? In Sweden I don't have a fucking clue, I don't know anyone that has ever owned a gun, neither do I know anyone that has ever been shot or robbed inside our country, maybe I'm just lucky but sure as hell it ain't becuase I don't know any people.

Also, I have been away for some time, but seeing whats happend here while I was gone, I've come back to verbally kick some ass.

EDIT*
Just noticed who made that article....do I really have to say anything?

(Some gun-crazy fundamentalist/terrorist jews) (No, I don't have anything against jews in general, just those that are terrorists)
sorry, but you really fail to understand a few extremely massive differences in this argument. As an american living in Britain(and as a result, Europe), travelled the globe (literally), and also lived in Germany, I feel much safer and better in the states than i do over here. What's that you say? banning an inanimate object equals less murder? don't think so how about cultural issues and other issues like a massively lower population speread over a massive area of land? 9,000,000 people in a place the size of California which has over 30,000,000. And don't think that banning weapons will protect you when the race riots and full blown attacks will come screaming out of the woodwork. Don't think so? 2 words: french riots. another 2 words: seething racism, which is lying under the surface in heavy amounts in britain. Who will protect you when those riots happen? another one. I won't take any advice from a group of who people who couldn't decide whose side to be on in a war that engendered and bred the purest of hate that existed on the earth, yes i am referring to WWII. This also coming from a country who has some of the highest socialistic ways of running a country in the world, yet are watching their country's standard of living go through the floor, to have the worst in western Europe. And last thing, attacking the writer of a well thought out and proper article on a subject that involves somehting very deep and serious such as this the way you have simply completes the impression that you are totally misunderstanding the entire situation.
ok then.

Sweeden has a much lower popn. density than the US, thay banned guns and have lower homicide rate. The UK has a much higher popn. density than the US, we banned guns and have a lower homicide rate.

WWII, that war where the US came right in at the start and didn't in any way spend a couple of years being neutral, selling (NOT supplying) arms to the allies. Also they never sold selling stuff to the nazis during that period too. They also definately declared war on Germany and not the other way round.

Sweeden in no ways has one of the best health care systems in the world and definately doesn't have a literacy rate that would make the US look fairly backwards.

US racism? They call them Arabs, you know, the group that there are just massive amounts of racist posts in this forums against.
2006-09-01 05:40:36
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7074

sneeky_fluff wrote:

Funny that the crime rate in the UK with refence to firearms is higher (by the way to what statistics are you refering? total number of crimes, proportion of gun crimes within violent crime? proportion of gun crimes with reference to number of murders? ....theres a long list) when owning a firearm is illegal. The states, owning a gun is legal. The UK, owning a gun is illegal, seems like theres bound to be more crime to me considering that holding a gun outside of proper venues is a crime (correct me if I am wrong on this count).
Britain has a higher violent crime rate and a lower homicide rate than the US. So we're talking more knife/bat/beatings than the US but much fewer shootings. As shootings are generally more deadly we have less deaths. Criminals carrying guns is very uncommon in Britain. I've seen a few posts that mention that the UK has currently a rise in gun crime. Yes it's true and if it continues in the same way for the next 30 years it'll be approaching the levels in the US, which it won't.

US has about 350,000 crimes a year involving guns. Populatuion about 300,000,000

UK has 10,000 gun crimes a year. polulation 60,000,000

Hence the US has 5 times the rate of gun crimes. The rate of gun crime is seen as being so high in the UK that it's being actively addressed.
2006-09-01 05:44:40
sneeky_fluff
Member
+1|6743

jarhedch wrote:

Nehil wrote:

Also if you want less murders and crimes you have to change the mentality towards guns, and really, think about it, if you wanted to buy a illegal gun, do you know where to go and who to ask? In Sweden I don't have a fucking clue, I don't know anyone that has ever owned a gun, neither do I know anyone that has ever been shot or robbed inside our country, maybe I'm just lucky but sure as hell it ain't becuase I don't know any people.

Also, I have been away for some time, but seeing whats happend here while I was gone, I've come back to verbally kick some ass.

EDIT*
Just noticed who made that article....do I really have to say anything?

(Some gun-crazy fundamentalist/terrorist jews) (No, I don't have anything against jews in general, just those that are terrorists)
sorry, but you really fail to understand a few extremely massive differences in this argument. As an american living in Britain(and as a result, Europe), travelled the globe (literally), and also lived in Germany, I feel much safer and better in the states than i do over here. What's that you say? banning an inanimate object equals less murder? don't think so how about cultural issues and other issues like a massively lower population speread over a massive area of land? 9,000,000 people in a place the size of California which has over 30,000,000. And don't think that banning weapons will protect you when the race riots and full blown attacks will come screaming out of the woodwork. Don't think so? 2 words: french riots. another 2 words: seething racism, which is lying under the surface in heavy amounts in britain. Who will protect you when those riots happen? another one. I won't take any advice from a group of who people who couldn't decide whose side to be on in a war that engendered and bred the purest of hate that existed on the earth, yes i am referring to WWII. This also coming from a country who has some of the highest socialistic ways of running a country in the world, yet are watching their country's standard of living go through the floor, to have the worst in western Europe. And last thing, attacking the writer of a well thought out and proper article on a subject that involves somehting very deep and serious such as this the way you have simply completes the impression that you are totally misunderstanding the entire situation.
I do have to ask what area of the UK you are referring to when stating the presence of seething racism. I am not denying that there is racism present (especially within some area's of london where I am not foolish enough to wander alone through late of an evening) but I am of the opinion that racism is dramatised to a degree. I am, however of the opinion that there are 'dangerous' area's present in most, if not all large cities which may or may not be attributed to racist sentiment or income divide.
I am also of the opinion that within the UK there is little need for the populous to carry firearms. The reasoning being that 'gun culture' has not become embedded within the culture of the population. This line of thought probably does not apply well to the States, who's populous (from my knowledge) have had pretty much constant exposure to firearms since the begining. As such I think I would have to say that we should adgree to disagree on the matter, what is useful in one country is not always useful in another.
2006-09-01 05:52:36
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

Nehil wrote:

People in Sweden don't have guns... we have VERY few murders each year, even when concidering our population... Did I mention that nobody's got guns in Sweden? See a connection? Less guns <-> Less murders
And yes I'm a non-pro-gun-freak-fucking-no-good-lazy-crazy-socialist. But still seems like have it better over here with socialists running our country...
Yup Tiny country with tiny problems. Your country isnt over run with Illegal imigrants and criminals. Live happy life without fear. Youll never have to deal with it anyways.
2006-09-01 06:03:03
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

Diray wrote:

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

2) No, its open to all, but you guys seem to assume a lot more about America and Americans, mostly for the bad, your fellow foreigners are not making good names for people like you who are much more level headed.  (I.e. I've been called sick, crazy, and "readily prepared to take someone's life") Which are all not true.
Ofcourse, I'm talking from the perspective of a person who lives in Danmark, where it is illegal to harm or in any way restrain a person who have broken into your house.
Knock him down, tie him up and wait for the police? No, you will only be sued  - and most likely have to pay a large sum to the guy you knocked out.
We let the police handle that kind of stuff, and let the insurance pay the damage.
For instance, unrelated I know, someone just got shot and killed by the police here in Danmark a few days ago, when he tried to escape the police in a car.

Either way, are we talking about >america< only? I was just explaining the situation ''over here''.
Are you Kidding? Let the person break in, Rape your wife and just wait for the police? What the fuck? Thats fucking crazy. I hope to god it doesnt happen to you, Id bet you move the hell out of that country and to one where your fasmilys welfare is more important than a criminals rights!!!
2006-09-01 06:05:42
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Diray wrote:

But knives usually have a purpose. Guns are MADE for killing.
If you want to bring up knives, you may as well mention tablelegs, rocks, pieces of cloth(gags), Jackie Chan, etc...
well guns are for defensive purposes if sum1 robs into your house and threaten to kill you, you pull out a desert eagle that fucker will never want to come back
guns are weapons and knives are a tool. yes knives can be used as weapons, but a gun cannot be used as a tool.
My guns are tools for Putting food on the table. So you are wrong when referring to guns as Non tools. If you have money to put meat on the table every day congrats, Im not so fortunate.
2006-09-01 06:08:11
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

Bubbalo wrote:

I refuse to read it.  Why?  Because he openly states at the start that anyone who opposes civilians having fire-arms is irrational.  Insulting and blatantly wrong.
Shocking news from you LMAO. Why read facts when you can conveniently refuse to accept another point of view that differs from yours.
2006-09-01 06:12:49
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

NasmNLH wrote:

To ts-pulsar,

That was an interesting and informative read.  Thank you for sharing it. 

To Diray,

There are a variety of knives made for a variety of purposes.  That includes knives that one might call a "defensive tactical folder" which would be made for utility and defense (killing people if you must).

Firearms do have uses other than "killing people".  This includes competitive shooting sports, recreational target shooting, and hunting.  There are in fact firearms that would be impractical to be going around shooting people with. 

Also regarding this quote "We let the police handle that kind of stuff, and let the insurance pay the damage."  What happens where the police can't respond quickly enough and the damage is irreparable and the insurance company can't bring you and/or your family back to life?

To Nehil,

"I'm pretty sure the chance that your buddy does it and you shoot him is bigger."  Anyone who trains for self-defense using firearms would learn that target identification is extremely important and that you are responsible for where all of your bullets go.  Given that one would be less than likely to kill a buddy (who shouldn't be sneaking up on you anyway). 

Pertaining to "if you wanted to buy a illegal gun, do you know where to go and who to ask? In Sweden I don't have a fucking clue".  you don't know where to buy an illegal gun because you're not a criminal.  I don't know where to buy an illegal gun because I'm not a criminal.  Legal gun owners wouldn't have any idea how to buy illegal guns either because they're not criminals. 

To All,

I am an American and a soon-to-be legal firearms owner/carrier.  I believe in self-defense and being as prepared as possible to defend my life if the need should arise.  I understand that using/carrying firearms is a huge responsibility and am prepared to accept that.  I am not looking for any fights, nor am I looking to kill anyone.  I hope I will never be in such a life-threatening situation.  I do not expect I will ever be in a such a situation.  I do plan on being prepared to defend my life with lethal force (including the use of a firearm) if I have to. 

Also, I heartily enjoy shooting sports.  I have fun with casual target shooting.  I like to do some friendly competitive shooting with friends.  I enjoy shooting skeet.  And I have had good times hunting.  If the right to keep and bear arms was taken away from me I would not know what to do.  I would feel ill-equipped to defend myself.  I would lose a lot of opportunity to have fun.  I would be worried about possible oppression by our government.  I would very likely attempt to move to another, more enlightened place, if gun ownership was outlawed. 

Thank you for your time reading my post and the interesting communication.

Take Care,

NasmNLH
MOST EXCELLENT POST and sums it up nicely!! Unfortunately i was FORCED to defend my family with lethal force. This action has labeled me in this forum as a gun toating John Wayne. Go figure huh? Being prepared gets you labeled as a gun toating redneck. Oh well I can atleast sleep at night knowing my family is still alive because I was Prepared!
2006-09-01 06:33:44
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6806

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Shocking news from you LMAO. Why read facts when you can conveniently refuse to accept another point of view that differs from yours.
Did you even read what I said?  My issue isn't the stance, but rather the fact that it fails to acknowledge that opposing viewpoints can both be formulated from rationale and logic.  That is to say, I may disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I think you're crazy.
2006-09-01 06:42:47
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6947|New York

Bubbalo wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Shocking news from you LMAO. Why read facts when you can conveniently refuse to accept another point of view that differs from yours.
Did you even read what I said?  My issue isn't the stance, but rather the fact that it fails to acknowledge that opposing viewpoints can both be formulated from rationale and logic.  That is to say, I may disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I think you're crazy.
Ok Then TRUCE!!  Point accepted.

 

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