But the FBI was all over their asses and eventually either arrested them, killed them, or sued them into submission. At least that's what I knowjonsimon wrote:
Remember back before the years and years of civil reform? You know, back when lynching was legal? Yeah, no one protested KKK rallies then.
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Poll
After watching a cable special on Al Queda last night, regarding Islam
| Mostly it's our fault. Apologize and hope for the best | 14% | 14% - 14 | ||||
| We can work it out peacefully. Muslims are just folks. | 13% | 13% - 13 | ||||
| We can work with Islam to take out just the radicals | 30% | 30% - 30 | ||||
| Sadly, too many radicals so they all have to go. | 6% | 6% - 6 | ||||
| Islam versus Us and only 1 will survive. KILL 'EM ALL. | 36% | 36% - 36 | ||||
| Total: 99 | ||||||
Riiiight. I'm talkin' before the FBI. You know, back when racism was the norm. Back when political leaders and law enforcers in the south were often the heads of the KKK rallies.Spearhead wrote:
But the FBI was all over their asses and eventually either arrested them, killed them, or sued them into submission. At least that's what I knowjonsimon wrote:
Remember back before the years and years of civil reform? You know, back when lynching was legal? Yeah, no one protested KKK rallies then.
I find myself agreeing with you.... an this just in, the temperature in hell today hit 31 degrees! :-)CameronPoe wrote:
'They can take out 3000 people with 19 in airplanes': one singular massive incident to which all other incidents before or since haven't come anywhere near in terms of severity - the product of INCREDIBLY lax security especially in light of prior warnings. Look at the 'KDR' of US troops to Iraqis/Afghans in the middle east conflicts there. You have little to be worried about. If your borders are secure and your police are doing their jobs then you should be safe. This is criminality we're talking about here not 'war'. There will of course be incidents and attacks in the future but if you make sure your domestic security is top notch these will be few and far between. It's quite simple. You don't have to commit genocide because of the rantings of a few delusionals.
We are all just folk.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
1920's? You could've just said World War 2, by saying before Civil Reform you kinda imply the 50's/60's ishjonsimon wrote:
Riiiight. I'm talkin' before the FBI. You know, back when racism was the norm. Back when political leaders and law enforcers in the south were often the heads of the KKK rallies.Spearhead wrote:
But the FBI was all over their asses and eventually either arrested them, killed them, or sued them into submission. At least that's what I knowjonsimon wrote:
Remember back before the years and years of civil reform? You know, back when lynching was legal? Yeah, no one protested KKK rallies then.
Sorry for the mislead.Spearhead wrote:
1920's? You could've just said World War 2, by saying before Civil Reform you kinda imply the 50's/60's ishjonsimon wrote:
Riiiight. I'm talkin' before the FBI. You know, back when racism was the norm. Back when political leaders and law enforcers in the south were often the heads of the KKK rallies.Spearhead wrote:
But the FBI was all over their asses and eventually either arrested them, killed them, or sued them into submission. At least that's what I know
Agreed, however Is there also a climate of fear in say New York, London , Auckland, Dublin, Sydney?CameronPoe wrote:
The climate of fear in Northern Ireland is no different from the climate of fear in Cairo, East Jerusalem, Sadr City or Beirut.
Where is the public denunciation of Islamic Terrorism from muslim communities in western countries? We have seen plenty of outcry from Americans over the "Terrorism" of the invasion of Iraq, why have we not seen wholesale outcry of say the British plane plot from Islamic leaders in the west where there is no need to fear reprisal?
Cameron posted a whole shmear of links to anti-extremism islamic sites back a bit in this thread.vedds wrote:
Agreed, however Is there also a climate of fear in say New York, London , Auckland, Dublin, Sydney?CameronPoe wrote:
The climate of fear in Northern Ireland is no different from the climate of fear in Cairo, East Jerusalem, Sadr City or Beirut.
Where is the public denunciation of Islamic Terrorism from muslim communities in western countries? We have seen plenty of outcry from Americans over the "Terrorism" of the invasion of Iraq, why have we not seen wholesale outcry of say the British plane plot from Islamic leaders in the west where there is no need to fear reprisal?
He did. I read them. NOT what i am reffering to.jonsimon wrote:
Cameron posted a whole shmear of links to anti-extremism islamic sites back a bit in this thread.vedds wrote:
Agreed, however Is there also a climate of fear in say New York, London , Auckland, Dublin, Sydney?CameronPoe wrote:
The climate of fear in Northern Ireland is no different from the climate of fear in Cairo, East Jerusalem, Sadr City or Beirut.
Where is the public denunciation of Islamic Terrorism from muslim communities in western countries? We have seen plenty of outcry from Americans over the "Terrorism" of the invasion of Iraq, why have we not seen wholesale outcry of say the British plane plot from Islamic leaders in the west where there is no need to fear reprisal?
Well that was public denunciation of islamic terrorism by muslims in western countries. What were you looking for then?vedds wrote:
He did. I read them. NOT what i am reffering to.jonsimon wrote:
Cameron posted a whole shmear of links to anti-extremism islamic sites back a bit in this thread.vedds wrote:
Agreed, however Is there also a climate of fear in say New York, London , Auckland, Dublin, Sydney?
Where is the public denunciation of Islamic Terrorism from muslim communities in western countries? We have seen plenty of outcry from Americans over the "Terrorism" of the invasion of Iraq, why have we not seen wholesale outcry of say the British plane plot from Islamic leaders in the west where there is no need to fear reprisal?
Last edited by jonsimon (2006-08-29 20:40:03)
Hitler said the same thing, basically. And then he put a hole in his head.
Last edited by Poseidon (2006-08-29 21:05:54)
Just a reminder that us Jews managed to infiltrate slow and steady, and over a hudred years or so, and there's no way that another infiltration will be acceptable. Preposterous.. Lol your country is OURS mwahah. J/kDersmikner wrote:
After watching the Blind Sheik on TV last night, and seeing how we had a sergeant in the U.S. Army who was one of these radicals, and hearing direct quotes from them about "eradicating Infidels from the world Allah created for the Muslims," and "we have to conquer the West from within", and "we can use their own freedoms against them and they will allow us to infiltrate their highest levels," I'm leaning to "the whole thing scares the shit out of me, there's no way to tell the good ones from the bad ones, and I think it's going to be an all out war with only one side surviving."
The more I listen to more of these Islamists, the more I'm thinking, "screw this. It's going to be an all out hoohah, and either we're all going to be wearing robes, or those folks have to be greased."
You ought to watch that show on Discovery Channel called Triple Cross, it'll scare the living shit out of you. Skip their comments and just listen to what these Islamic higher-ups are saying, even the ones in frigging government, and you'll straight shit your pants.
I get the feeling there is a very small group of Muslims who say "what's so funny bout peace, love, and understanding," then there's a very small group that says "this planet is for us, and everyone should be Muslim and if they aren't they should be dead," and there's a huge group in the middle that leans to the "death to the non-Muslims" group, which either sympathizes with the radicals, or outright helps them through funding or other support. I think even if you could ferret out the "peace, love, and understanding" folks and wipe out the rest, the basis of the religion itself would sooner or lead to more radicals.
Tough deal all the way around.
He is probably looking for something were muslims DO something about the extremist. Just like the people of America got rid of the KKK. Actions not words.jonsimon wrote:
Well that was public denunciation of islamic terrorism by muslims in western countries. What were you looking for then?vedds wrote:
He did. I read them. NOT what i am reffering to.jonsimon wrote:
Cameron posted a whole shmear of links to anti-extremism islamic sites back a bit in this thread.
And what did the people of America do to the KKK? Never heard of any civil rights activists lynching KKK members.rawls2 wrote:
He is probably looking for something were muslims DO something about the extremist. Just like the people of America got rid of the KKK. Actions not words.jonsimon wrote:
Well that was public denunciation of islamic terrorism by muslims in western countries. What were you looking for then?vedds wrote:
He did. I read them. NOT what i am reffering to.
Besides, what are muslims in America supposed to do about extremists on the other side of the world?
Yes, but they have LOTS of kids. a household with 17 kids is not uncommon, whereas the rest of the world is decreasing theier birthrate.CameronPoe wrote:
How can anyone possibly imagine that muslims, a minority of which are extremists, are going to take over the entire world? It just makes no logical sense whatsoever!! Blowing yourself up isn't generally the best course of action to take if you wish to 'take over the world'!! This retarded scaremongering has to stop.
Bear in mind that there are 1.3bn muslims and about 5bn non-muslims. Numbers alone are a barrier to any such fanciful 'world domination' plans.
lol, 17? Really?imortal wrote:
Yes, but they have LOTS of kids. a household with 17 kids is not uncommon, whereas the rest of the world is decreasing theier birthrate.CameronPoe wrote:
How can anyone possibly imagine that muslims, a minority of which are extremists, are going to take over the entire world? It just makes no logical sense whatsoever!! Blowing yourself up isn't generally the best course of action to take if you wish to 'take over the world'!! This retarded scaremongering has to stop.
Bear in mind that there are 1.3bn muslims and about 5bn non-muslims. Numbers alone are a barrier to any such fanciful 'world domination' plans.
Yep. afraid so. 3 or 4 wives, by that point. So, 12 boys go off and meet Allah in the great jihad, and one guy can stay back and repopulate.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
lol, 17? Really?imortal wrote:
Yes, but they have LOTS of kids. a household with 17 kids is not uncommon, whereas the rest of the world is decreasing theier birthrate.CameronPoe wrote:
How can anyone possibly imagine that muslims, a minority of which are extremists, are going to take over the entire world? It just makes no logical sense whatsoever!! Blowing yourself up isn't generally the best course of action to take if you wish to 'take over the world'!! This retarded scaremongering has to stop.
Bear in mind that there are 1.3bn muslims and about 5bn non-muslims. Numbers alone are a barrier to any such fanciful 'world domination' plans.
Do you hear about KKK killing blacks anymore? We made it unpopular to be KKK. We demonized the group and now they hold their shit in hiding. Thats what we did.jonsimon wrote:
And what did the people of America do to the KKK? Never heard of any civil rights activists lynching KKK members.rawls2 wrote:
He is probably looking for something were muslims DO something about the extremist. Just like the people of America got rid of the KKK. Actions not words.jonsimon wrote:
Well that was public denunciation of islamic terrorism by muslims in western countries. What were you looking for then?
Besides, what are muslims in America supposed to do about extremists on the other side of the world?
what about the muslims here? If I was a muslim leader in America I would create a new branch of Islam that openly call for muslims to stop the violence.
People are forgetting that to continue to have such large families is not sustainable. How the fuck are you gonna feed the cunts when all you possess is a barren desert?!!!imortal wrote:
Yep. afraid so. 3 or 4 wives, by that point. So, 12 boys go off and meet Allah in the great jihad, and one guy can stay back and repopulate.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
lol, 17? Really?imortal wrote:
Yes, but they have LOTS of kids. a household with 17 kids is not uncommon, whereas the rest of the world is decreasing theier birthrate.
And did we make the KKK unpopular over night? It took lot of a time and a lot of people. So maybe we should just give islam time.rawls2 wrote:
Do you hear about KKK killing blacks anymore? We made it unpopular to be KKK. We demonized the group and now they hold their shit in hiding. Thats what we did.jonsimon wrote:
And what did the people of America do to the KKK? Never heard of any civil rights activists lynching KKK members.rawls2 wrote:
He is probably looking for something were muslims DO something about the extremist. Just like the people of America got rid of the KKK. Actions not words.
Besides, what are muslims in America supposed to do about extremists on the other side of the world?
what about the muslims here? If I was a muslim leader in America I would create a new branch of Islam that openly call for muslims to stop the violence.
Why make a new branch, when the Koran itself calls for a peaceful life?
The reports carried in the cable special of which the OP speaks doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Muslims would like nothing more than to destroy every last vestige of glorious western civilisation. Well hey, I got a newsflash for them: fuck with us and we'll turn the middle east into a lifeless plateau of death. It's Islam versus Us and only one will survive, as the poll option states. 45% of us agree that all muslims need to be eradicated and another 26% are on the fence. Hopefully one day the battle will come to pass. I know which side I'll be betting on for victory!
Last edited by CyrusTheVirus (2006-08-30 13:27:17)
Bingo Rawls wins the prize.rawls2 wrote:
He is probably looking for something were muslims DO something about the extremist. Just like the people of America got rid of the KKK. Actions not words.jonsimon wrote:
Well that was public denunciation of islamic terrorism by muslims in western countries. What were you looking for then?vedds wrote:
He did. I read them. NOT what i am reffering to.
My point was that i have seen plenty of celebrating of Terrorist attacks and terrorism in the media, But I have yet to see a demonstration anywhere in the world where Muslims stand up and decry the attacks. Where is the "Not in my name" campaign from the muslims?
Sure there is the occasional lip service paid by one or two organisations, but if a terrorist used something as fundamentally important to me (as Islam is to Muslims) to justify killing innocent parties I would damn sure let the world know it had nothing to do with me or the tenets of my beliefs.
Where is the Mullah explaining that Killing children is un-islamic? Where is the crowd of outraged supporters? We know muslims can voice their outrage as they did at the danish cartoons (hell if they wanted to kill people over some cartoons what would they want to do about people using the "religeon of peace" to justify the slaughter of innocents?) If we can have global protests over those damn pictures, surely it figures that someone desecrating the tenets of the religeon would draw an outcry?
A quick Google for Muslim denunciations of terrorism lends over 100k articles.
Rarely are fatwas issued by clerics against terrorism/terrorists covered in western media outlets. Because you rarely come in contact with it doesn't mean it's not happening.
In response to the thread starter, I don't know about you, but there's nothing they could say or do that would make me not hostile to their cause. I'm not particularly afraid of terrorism of any sort. Fundamentalist Islamic terror poses no existential threat to any liberal democracy. While Al-Qaeda and the like have some capability to occasionally carry out horrific attacks, its goal of a global Islamic state is not achievable in the slightest. As a form of authoritarianism it is far, far, far, far weaker than pluralistic liberal democracies.
Groups that are ideological in basis and aren't focused around some territorial region (ie. classic resistance/revolutionary movements) tend to fizzle in less than 20 years. This is true of Aum Shinrikyo, the Japanese Red Army, Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction, Action Directe, GRAPO, Red Brigades, etc. All of the above have long since ceased to pose a threat and all were ideological in nature and not focused on concrete aims like retaking a patch of earth like Hizbollah, HAMAS, the IRA, the various Chechen groups, etc. Territorially focused groups are extremely resilient and rarely have states been able to combat them effectively, but their ideological cousins frequently fracture and dissipate as members are driven to further extremes, causing a loss of support among their support base, witness, for example the massive loss of goodwill towards AQ in Jordan following the wedding bombings this past year.
Basic point, we in the west have nothing to fear from AQ and similar groups, they aren't going to destroy the US or the US government, they aren't going to take over the government of any of our close allies, and AQ will probably tear itself apart over internal divisions and the stresses of investigations of multiple governments.
Rarely are fatwas issued by clerics against terrorism/terrorists covered in western media outlets. Because you rarely come in contact with it doesn't mean it's not happening.
In response to the thread starter, I don't know about you, but there's nothing they could say or do that would make me not hostile to their cause. I'm not particularly afraid of terrorism of any sort. Fundamentalist Islamic terror poses no existential threat to any liberal democracy. While Al-Qaeda and the like have some capability to occasionally carry out horrific attacks, its goal of a global Islamic state is not achievable in the slightest. As a form of authoritarianism it is far, far, far, far weaker than pluralistic liberal democracies.
Groups that are ideological in basis and aren't focused around some territorial region (ie. classic resistance/revolutionary movements) tend to fizzle in less than 20 years. This is true of Aum Shinrikyo, the Japanese Red Army, Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction, Action Directe, GRAPO, Red Brigades, etc. All of the above have long since ceased to pose a threat and all were ideological in nature and not focused on concrete aims like retaking a patch of earth like Hizbollah, HAMAS, the IRA, the various Chechen groups, etc. Territorially focused groups are extremely resilient and rarely have states been able to combat them effectively, but their ideological cousins frequently fracture and dissipate as members are driven to further extremes, causing a loss of support among their support base, witness, for example the massive loss of goodwill towards AQ in Jordan following the wedding bombings this past year.
Basic point, we in the west have nothing to fear from AQ and similar groups, they aren't going to destroy the US or the US government, they aren't going to take over the government of any of our close allies, and AQ will probably tear itself apart over internal divisions and the stresses of investigations of multiple governments.
As with most issues of rebellion and protest, few are likely to actively participate in protest even if they sympathize with radicals, fewer are likely to train as terrorists, and even fewer are likely to actually to commit violence.
The upper limit for actual protest (violent or otherwise) is only on the order of 5% of a given population and that's with massive repression and discontent towards the population. The population might be sympathetic to the radical cause, but only 2 in 100 or less is going to actually be compelled to any kind of action.
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