Also, Canada is not a democracy. It is a federal constitutional monarchy. The monarch of the UK is the official head of state in Canada.
Poll
Is Iran democratic?
| Yes. | 24% | 24% - 25 | ||||
| No. | 56% | 56% - 58 | ||||
| Go fuck yourself! | 18% | 18% - 19 | ||||
| Total: 102 | ||||||
True. Every country that's called a democracy nowadays is in fact nothing more than a democratic republic. Even if there's a monarch involved, the underlying government structure is still that of a democratic republic. And there is an ENORMOUS difference between a democracy and a democratic republic in that one of them actually has the people in power and the other merely offers the people the illusion of being in power.kilgoretrout wrote:
How is the US a democracy? (Dictionary.com isn't a definitive source for questions of this nature...) The US is a representative republic. In a true democracy, every citizen would vote on every matter that came up. We would all vote for every bill that went through congress. Obviously, that wouldn't work well, so we elect representatives for our opinions. We don't even get to vote on who the president is. The electoral college does. The individual electoral college members can vote for whomever they choose. They're not obligated to vote for the person that their district chooses by popular majority. I'm not arguing that Iran is a democracy, because Iran is a theocracy in every sense of the word. However, get your facts straight. The US is a republic. (Think about the pledge... "And to the REPUBLIC, for which it stands...")AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Sure sounds like a REPUBLIC. Lets use a fairly objective source here.Budo7 wrote:
chief of state: Supreme Leader Ali Hoseini-KHAMENEI (since 4 June 1989)
head of government: President Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD (since 3 August 2005); First Vice President Parviz DAVUDI (since 11 September 2005)
cabinet: Council of Ministers selected by the president with legislative approval; the Supreme Leader has some control over appointments to the more sensitive ministries
note: also considered part of the Executive branch of government are three oversight bodies: 1) Assembly of Experts, a popularly elected body of 86 religious scholars constitutionally charged with determining the succession of the Supreme Leader, reviewing his performance, and deposing him if deemed necessary; 2) Expediency Council or Council for the Discernment of Expediency is a policy advisory and implementation board consisting of permanent and temporary members representing all major government factions, some of whom are appointed by the Supreme Leader; the Council exerts supervisory authority over the executive, judicial, and legislative branches and resolves legislative issues on which the Majles and the Council of Guardians disagree; 3) Council of Guardians or Council of Guardians of the Constitution is a 12-member board of clerics and jurists serving six-year terms that determines whether proposed legislation is both constitutional and faithful to Islamic law; the Council also vets candidates for suitability and supervises national elections
elections: Supreme Leader appointed for life by the Assembly of Experts; president elected by popular vote for a four-year term (eligible for a second term); election last held 17 June 2005 with a two-candidate runoff on 24 June 2005 (next to be held in 2009)
election results: Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD elected president; percent of vote - Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD 62%, Ali Akbar Hashemi RAFSANJANI 3
See for yourselfThere are VERY key differences.....USA & Canada = Democracy, Iran = RepublicDictionary.com wrote:
re‧pub‧lic
–noun
1. a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
2. a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.
de‧moc‧ra‧cy
–noun
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
My one question to those who think Iran is a democracy.....
1) If Iran is a Democracy, than why are some citizens DENIED(speech, press, the right to run for office) some rights and privileges that are SO inherent in many other democracies AROUND THE WORLD???
While they are similiar there are key differences, the rights issue being my big issue with those calling Iran a democracy, most of you are probably just going OH, the president is elected, that must mean its a democracy.......gimme a break.
Last edited by Rosse_modest (2006-08-29 02:58:55)
I didnt use the option, But sure was going to LMAO.ATG wrote:
With respect, the " go fuck yourself" option attempted to be made fashionable by cameron really is weak.jonsimon wrote:
Just wondering.
Please stop.
It's a theocracy with a ruling council. The theocrat is the real power behind it.
yeah, ummm, wasn't iraq democratic when Hussein was elected with 100 % of the vote?
And was banning the Ba'ath party democratic?kr@cker wrote:
yeah, ummm, wasn't iraq democratic when Hussein was elected with 100 % of the vote?
irans supreme leader is the ayotollah or whatever. so if you want to call a religious leader a democracy thats fine by me lol
not when the leader was a fucking mad manUnOriginalNuttah wrote:
And was banning the Ba'ath party democratic?kr@cker wrote:
yeah, ummm, wasn't iraq democratic when Hussein was elected with 100 % of the vote?
Forget about the Queen?James-m wrote:
irans supreme leader is the ayotollah or whatever. so if you want to call a religious leader a democracy thats fine by me lol
edit: Divine Right = Religious Leader
edit:
G.W.Bush isn't?James-m wrote:
not when the leader was a fucking mad manUnOriginalNuttah wrote:
And was banning the Ba'ath party democratic?kr@cker wrote:
yeah, ummm, wasn't iraq democratic when Hussein was elected with 100 % of the vote?
Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-08-29 08:45:34)
iran is not a democracy. atall.
so your saying the ayotollah is the head of state?
so your saying the ayotollah is the head of state?
Last edited by James-m (2006-08-29 08:45:14)
the ayotollah is like an elected religous ruler. like the pope id say. iran is a republic
That's your opinion. As always, it is valued and based completely in fact...James-m wrote:
iran is not a democracy. atall.
James-m wrote:
Look guys, nothing will stop the towl heads attacking any western country.
James-m wrote:
some guy said earlier, until british whites see these so called british muslims or any muslim in england on a march against terrorism, theyre all guilty.
James-m wrote:
another one whos got it rightHarmonics wrote:
It wont happen. It's always the fucking towel heads.
James-m wrote:
blind racism? i come from london, what do you expect. walk into a shop, what do you see.
There it is, the final most uber leet comeback argument used in this forum. Calling someone a "liberal"...Phantom2828 wrote:
AHAHAHAH you stupied liberal.Ikarti wrote:
It's as democratic as Israel.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
whats your point, i cant make it out? all i see is quotes. no cogent argument.UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
That's your opinion. As always, it is valued and based completely in fact...James-m wrote:
iran is not a democracy. atall.James-m wrote:
Look guys, nothing will stop the towl heads attacking any western country.James-m wrote:
some guy said earlier, until british whites see these so called british muslims or any muslim in england on a march against terrorism, theyre all guilty.James-m wrote:
another one whos got it rightHarmonics wrote:
It wont happen. It's always the fucking towel heads.James-m wrote:
blind racism? i come from london, what do you expect. walk into a shop, what do you see.
you left wing bastard
Short version: It's not worth arguing with someone who doesn't even attempt to deny being racist. Your opinions are swayed by hatred, not facts. Anyone can see that from those quotes. I enjoy discussion with rational people no matter what their opinions are, except those who are openly racist. Clear?James-m wrote:
whats your point, i cant make it out?
QFEJames-m wrote:
you left wing bastard
Real mature discussion. If you don't want to be quoted, then don't say it in the first place. Capice?
blimey, ok ok calm it. i was tracing family history back to the slave trade right, and i actually had family as slave enforcers. comon, thats hardly my fault. you ever lived in romford or dagenham?
ok look at it this way, its clearly a war between these islamic extremists who use religion as a cover if you like, just to kill people, and the free world, i.e any country which isnt filled to the mex with terrorists. its like ww3 if you like, race has got shit all to do with it. ww2, everyone hated the germans because of what they did. its the same here, everyone hates terrorists. i got nothin against ordinary muslims atall. but, its actually hard to tell, you cant not suspect someone just because theyre nice! that would be blind.
believe me or not, i actually feel sorry for muslims, theyre bing made to look bad because of the actions of a few of their people. agreed?
Ok so you proved me wrong and proved me right, so the US isn't a democracy, but you just proved at the same time that neither is Iran. And I never said dictionary.com is THE definitive source for questions of this nature, I merely suggested it as a helpful source, omfg.kilgoretrout wrote:
How is the US a democracy? (Dictionary.com isn't a definitive source for questions of this nature...)
At any rate NO ONE has answered my question yet, try again guys. ( Or at least those that STILL think Iran is a democracy.
AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
My one question to those who think Iran is a democracy.....
1) If Iran is a Democracy, than why are citizens DENIED(speech, press, the right to run for office) some rights and privileges that are SO inherent in many other democracies AROUND THE WORLD???
Because the question wasn't whether it was a liberal democracy.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Ok so you proved me wrong and proved me right, so the US isn't a democracy, but you just proved at the same time that neither is Iran. And I never said dictionary.com is THE definitive source for questions of this nature, I merely suggested it as a helpful source, omfg.kilgoretrout wrote:
How is the US a democracy? (Dictionary.com isn't a definitive source for questions of this nature...)
At any rate NO ONE has answered my question yet, try again guys. ( Or at least those that STILL think Iran is a democracy.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
My one question to those who think Iran is a democracy.....
1) If Iran is a Democracy, than why are citizens DENIED(speech, press, the right to run for office) some rights and privileges that are SO inherent in many other democracies AROUND THE WORLD???
I think we all agree it's not a regular or conventional democracy, but at it's most basic level it is still a democracyAlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Ok so you proved me wrong and proved me right, so the US isn't a democracy, but you just proved at the same time that neither is Iran. And I never said dictionary.com is THE definitive source for questions of this nature, I merely suggested it as a helpful source, omfg.kilgoretrout wrote:
How is the US a democracy? (Dictionary.com isn't a definitive source for questions of this nature...)
At any rate NO ONE has answered my question yet, try again guys. ( Or at least those that STILL think Iran is a democracy.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
My one question to those who think Iran is a democracy.....
1) If Iran is a Democracy, than why are citizens DENIED(speech, press, the right to run for office) some rights and privileges that are SO inherent in many other democracies AROUND THE WORLD???
How is it democracy at its most basic level? The people aren't allowed to criticize the government and aren't necessarily allowed to run for office. To run, you have to be approved by the religious councils. That's not a democracy, and not anything like the US. I don't think our system is perfect, but anyone is allowed to run, no matter how unpopular their ideas are. The protection from the tyrrany of the majority is fundamental to any democracy (or democratic republic). Iran is absolutely dictated by the tyrrany of the majority. If your views aren't the popular ones, they absolutely are not tolerated.Spearhead wrote:
I think we all agree it's not a regular or conventional democracy, but at it's most basic level it is still a democracyAlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Ok so you proved me wrong and proved me right, so the US isn't a democracy, but you just proved at the same time that neither is Iran. And I never said dictionary.com is THE definitive source for questions of this nature, I merely suggested it as a helpful source, omfg.kilgoretrout wrote:
How is the US a democracy? (Dictionary.com isn't a definitive source for questions of this nature...)
At any rate NO ONE has answered my question yet, try again guys. ( Or at least those that STILL think Iran is a democracy.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
My one question to those who think Iran is a democracy.....
1) If Iran is a Democracy, than why are citizens DENIED(speech, press, the right to run for office) some rights and privileges that are SO inherent in many other democracies AROUND THE WORLD???
Also, Albert, I wasn't attacking you. I was just pointing out that the US isn't a democracy, and if you read the rest of my post, I agreed with you that Iran is definitely not a democracy.
Using the statement as evidence of itself being true? Somewhat foolish.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
1) Iran is a Constitutional Republic--a non-democratic Republic.
So, he's a head of state? The only difference between him and someone else is control over the media, and in the West there is partial control anyway (to protect, for example, sensitive information).AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
2) It is ruled first and foremost by what their Constitution terms "The Supreme Leader." This man is not elected. Current holder of the office is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He is the Commander In Chief of the armed forces, the head of all intelligence and security forces absolutely. He and he alone has the power to declare war. He also has the unilateral power to appoint or dismiss judges, has complete control over all television and radio networks, and controls many other important functions--and once again, his control over most of these things is absolute.
So it's the supreme court?AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
He also controls half of the "Council of Guardians," a group that interprets the Iranian Constitution.
Again you state that which you are trying to prove as evidence.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
How does Supreme Leader--i.e. Dictator For Life
Seperation of church and state is not required for a democracy.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
(WHAT happened to your wonderful seperation of church and state, NOT A DEMOCRACY)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that similar to how Supreme Court Justices are appointed over where you live?AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
3) Who is the Council of Guardians? A group of 12 quasi-judges who have the ultimate authority for interpreting the Constitution. By law, half of them are appointed and keep their job at the whim of the Supreme Leader and are always clerics. The other half are appointed by the Parliament. Oh, there's a "Parliament?" Sure. Sort of.
You know what I find funny about this comment? Not long ago when a pedophile party wanted to run, every was up in arms and wanted them banned. And now you criticise Iran for wanting to exercise that style of control.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
and in every "election" ever held, the vast majority of people who wanted to run for office were denied the right to do so.
So the Ayatollah, rather than the President, is the head of state. What's the big fucking deal?AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
5) The "President" - electected every four years. Must be approved by the Council of Guardians and the Supreme Leader. Handles day-to-day executive duties, with formal approval of the Supreme Leader for anything controversial.
Free speech/press is not a requirement for a nation to be defined as Democratic.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
In all of this, there is no free speech (Not much of a democracy there), there is no free press,
Evidence?AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Oh yeah, and most of the evidence shows that despite all this, massive vote fraud has been normal in every election,
Done.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Unless you want to counter point me....go ahead.
The persone with the evidence. I find that believing people based on past views is foolish in the extreme.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Even Pat Buchanan says its a Republic and NOT democratic. And this is from an ANTI WAR site for Christ's sake, the likes of which you should trust ******
Actually, it's a theocratic republic (islamic republic, to be specific). The US is a constitutional republic.Bubbalo wrote:
Using the statement as evidence of itself being true? Somewhat foolish.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
1) Iran is a Constitutional Republic--a non-democratic Republic.
Jomhuri-ye Eslami-ye Iran (Islamic Republic of Iran)
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-08-29 16:01:36)