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2006-08-25 16:30:34
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

bogo24dk wrote:

Fancy_Pollux i got a question for you. What do you do when your country is invaded ?  Are you suggesting that self defence is terrorism now a days. And i am referring only to Hezbollah, not Osama. Or Israel has the copyrights to the word "SELF DEFENCE" and Arabs aren't allowed to use it ?

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

9/11- civillian deaths 2752
       -0 soldiers
Lebanon Death Toll-civillian death toll 500+


Israel- Civilian death toll 38
        -soldier 120

Hezbollah have, according to the figures have not primarily targeted civillians.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:31:42)

2006-08-25 16:33:09
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6891

bogo24dk wrote:

Fancy_Pollux i got a question for you. What do you do when your country is invaded ?  Are you suggesting that self defence is terrorism now a days. And i am referring only to Hezbollah, not Osama. Or Israel has the copyrights to the word "SELF DEFENCE" and Arabs aren't allowed to use it ?
I'm quite sure that if the U.S. was invaded the U.S. army would NOT hide in our neighborhoods using civilians as shields. Additionally, we would be attacking our invaders, not blindly launching rockets into civilian neighborhoods.
2006-08-25 16:35:50
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6900|United States of America

Spumantiii wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

I wish Israel would just carpet bomb Lebanon.  I fail to see how anyone there could claim to be a civilian.  They allow Hezbollah to live and operate among them which is the same as supporting and helping them.  Screw the Muslims, if more countries would just start carpet bombing them, THEY would clean up THEIR terrorist problem. 

It's like trying to stop the Nazi's during WWII without harming a German, the Idiots on this board need a few rockets fired at them by Hezbollah, then be force to try to root out the terrorists in Lebanon with a rifle to protect the people supporting your enemy.  A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them.
"A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them"
It's a damn good thing we have you to prove this to us, over and over again.

" I wish ****  would just carpet bomb the USA.  I fail to see how anyone there could claim to be an informed civilian.  They allow the corrupt BS to live and operate among them which is the same as supporting terrorists and helping them.  'Screw the USA', if more countries would just start carpet bombing them, THEY would clean up THEIR terrorist problem. 

It's like trying to stop the Nazi's during WWII without harming a German, the Idiots on this board need a few rockets fired at them by the USA, then be forced to try to root out the terrorists in the USA with a rifle to protect the people supporting your enemy.  A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them.

You fail to recognize that Hesbollah is fighting terror with terror.  Anyone incapable of recognition:  fail.
katyusha rockets  <  Merkava tanks
sarcasm:
rusty old russian guns  (everywhere in the world)  = terrorism
m16 = 'freedom'
occupying other countries:  defence
retaliation by the victims:  terrorism
the world's media:  unbiased
Israel does not kill civilians ..   !!?
Hesbollah rockets can be aimed..   !?
Hesbollah is strictly a terror otrganization
(funny because Hesbollah and Hamas provide more social services and support for their people than the Israeli govt does for theirs.  These include education, health care, emergency response, utilities etc.  these things comprise a PERSON'S FREEDOM.)
Israel is only but defending their homeland
(fail.  Israel has increased the size of their land through unilateral force since their inception)
Terrorism is a danger in North America
(Major spittle obviously knows, from personal experience, how being a victim must feel, since he dodges terrorist attacks all day long)
/sarcasm

  Major Fail you failed to recognize you just implied your support for the victims, the palestinian and Lebanese people.  Explain the difference between IED roadside bombs, and land mines.  One is built by your country, one is built in the countryside.  Explain how one is right and one is wrong, please, I'd love to hear that.

Hesbollah has no army yet you believe them to be a threat.  You believe them to be a threat because you call them terrorists.  You call them terrorists because they are rising against oppression. 
Therefore you just labelled yourself and your forefathers as terrorists.  Good job once again.

Israel supports having less military casualties by bombing indiscriminantly.
Hesbollah can't target anybody with Katyushas.  When Israel attacks, they attack the soldiers.  The Israelis will kill anyone firing on them, within their ROE, but will also kill everyhting moving within 150 m of their target. 
Not part of this planet's ROE.   Since when is it acceptible to mow down civilians, since Fallujah?
Don't sugar coat it, tell me how I really make you feel.
2006-08-25 16:36:09
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Hezbollah are not regarded as terroists..
Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah

You're making this too easy.
so because your country said so.  And that's the bottom line. 
more from Austin 3:16 coming soon



to the above post:

now consider you were out numbered, out gunned, had no tanks, no technology, no equipment, no running water, no hospitals, no mcdonalds, no airport, no bridges, a morally beaten people, a smaller land area, and borders which touch your enemy.    Now you try and fight.  Let's see the tactics you use.    Your enemy has all of the above and a pile of cash to boot.

You have become a terrorist.   The attacking country said so.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:38:22)

2006-08-25 16:37:14
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

Major_Spittle wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

I wish Israel would just carpet bomb Lebanon.  I fail to see how anyone there could claim to be a civilian.  They allow Hezbollah to live and operate among them which is the same as supporting and helping them.  Screw the Muslims, if more countries would just start carpet bombing them, THEY would clean up THEIR terrorist problem. 

It's like trying to stop the Nazi's during WWII without harming a German, the Idiots on this board need a few rockets fired at them by Hezbollah, then be force to try to root out the terrorists in Lebanon with a rifle to protect the people supporting your enemy.  A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them.
"A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them"
It's a damn good thing we have you to prove this to us, over and over again.

" I wish ****  would just carpet bomb the USA.  I fail to see how anyone there could claim to be an informed civilian.  They allow the corrupt BS to live and operate among them which is the same as supporting terrorists and helping them.  'Screw the USA', if more countries would just start carpet bombing them, THEY would clean up THEIR terrorist problem. 

It's like trying to stop the Nazi's during WWII without harming a German, the Idiots on this board need a few rockets fired at them by the USA, then be forced to try to root out the terrorists in the USA with a rifle to protect the people supporting your enemy.  A lot of Stupid people in this world, and this forum is a magnet for them.

You fail to recognize that Hesbollah is fighting terror with terror.  Anyone incapable of recognition:  fail.
katyusha rockets  <  Merkava tanks
sarcasm:
rusty old russian guns  (everywhere in the world)  = terrorism
m16 = 'freedom'
occupying other countries:  defence
retaliation by the victims:  terrorism
the world's media:  unbiased
Israel does not kill civilians ..   !!?
Hesbollah rockets can be aimed..   !?
Hesbollah is strictly a terror otrganization
(funny because Hesbollah and Hamas provide more social services and support for their people than the Israeli govt does for theirs.  These include education, health care, emergency response, utilities etc.  these things comprise a PERSON'S FREEDOM.)
Israel is only but defending their homeland
(fail.  Israel has increased the size of their land through unilateral force since their inception)
Terrorism is a danger in North America
(Major spittle obviously knows, from personal experience, how being a victim must feel, since he dodges terrorist attacks all day long)
/sarcasm

  Major Fail you failed to recognize you just implied your support for the victims, the palestinian and Lebanese people.  Explain the difference between IED roadside bombs, and land mines.  One is built by your country, one is built in the countryside.  Explain how one is right and one is wrong, please, I'd love to hear that.

Hesbollah has no army yet you believe them to be a threat.  You believe them to be a threat because you call them terrorists.  You call them terrorists because they are rising against oppression. 
Therefore you just labelled yourself and your forefathers as terrorists.  Good job once again.

Israel supports having less military casualties by bombing indiscriminantly.
Hesbollah can't target anybody with Katyushas.  When Israel attacks, they attack the soldiers.  The Israelis will kill anyone firing on them, within their ROE, but will also kill everyhting moving within 150 m of their target. 
Not part of this planet's ROE.   Since when is it acceptible to mow down civilians, since Fallujah?
Don't sugar coat it, tell me how I really make you feel.
the ignorant shit you say pisses me the fuck off.  No sugar.
2006-08-25 16:37:49
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6900|United States of America

Spumantiii wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Hezbollah are not regarded as terroists..
Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah

You're making this too easy.
so because your country said so.  And that's the bottom line. 
more from Austin 3:16 coming soon



to the above post:

now consider you were out numbered, out gunned, had no tanks, no technology, no equipment, no running water, no hospitals, no mcdonalds, no airport, no bridges, amorally beaten people, a smaller land area, and borders which touch your enemy.    Now you try and fight.  Let's see the tactics you use.    Your enemy has all of the above and a pile of cash to boot.
All Islamic terrorists should die, after all, remember the Alamo.
2006-08-25 16:39:21
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

Major_Spittle wrote:

All Islamic terrorists should die, after all, remember the Alamo.
classic.

All bleeps should be dheeps
after all, remember the yehig


makes about as much sense
2006-08-25 16:39:26
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6891

Spumantiii wrote:

Israel supports having less military casualties by bombing indiscriminantly.
Hesbollah can't target anybody with Katyushas.  When Israel attacks, they attack the soldiers.  The Israelis will kill anyone firing on them, within their ROE, but will also kill everyhting moving within 150 m of their target. 
Not part of this planet's ROE.   Since when is it acceptible to mow down civilians, since Fallujah?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search? … =0&y=0

Israel bombs Hezbollah or suspected Hezbollah targets, or targets that provide aid to Hezbollah. They are not just randomly carpet bombing Lebanon with no target. It is impossible to attack Hezbollah without also attacking a civilian target.
2006-08-25 16:43:29
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada
just like how the UN was a target
just like how evacuating people are a target
just like how coastal oil tanks are a target (causing a natural disaster, a complete disregard for this planet's people.  I fart in their general direction.)

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:44:41)

2006-08-25 16:46:04
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6805

Spumantiii wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Fancy_Pollux i got a question for you. What do you do when your country is invaded ?  Are you suggesting that self defence is terrorism now a days. And i am referring only to Hezbollah, not Osama. Or Israel has the copyrights to the word "SELF DEFENCE" and Arabs aren't allowed to use it ?

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

9/11- civillian deaths 2752
       -0 soldiers
Lebanon Death Toll-civillian death toll 500+


Israel- Civilian death toll 38
        -soldier 120

Hezbollah have, according to the figures have not primarily targeted civillians.
Israel didn't invade Lebonan. They are counter-striking Hezbollah.

The Lebonese civilian death toll would be that of Israel's if Hezbollah wouldn't battle from civilian neiborhoods.

Anymore questions?
2006-08-25 16:46:31
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada
fully beside the point, but thanks for that, I often misspell indiscriminately
It's good you understand the word.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:46:58)

2006-08-25 16:48:47
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

rawls2 wrote:

Israel didn't invade Lebonan. They are counter-striking Hezbollah.

The Lebonese civilian death toll would be that of Israel's if Hezbollah wouldn't battle from civilian neiborhoods.

Anymore questions?
The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.

Evidence:  West Bank, Gaza, Golan.

Also:  hesbollah  ARE civilians.  Phail.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:50:01)

2006-08-25 16:49:30
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6805

Spumantiii wrote:

just like how the UN was a target
just like how evacuating people are a target
just like how coastal oil tanks are a target (causing a natural disaster, a complete disregard for this planet's people.  I fart in their general direction.)
Again, the UN would not have been accidently bombed if Hezbollah wasn't fighting from the area.

Evacuating civilians would have been safe if hezbollah would not have called "shotgun" and squeezed into the cars of innocents.

The oil tanks were probably an oopsy. Unless hezbollah was hanging around the tankers shooting Kaytushas
2006-08-25 16:52:42
bogo24dk
Member
+26|6751

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Fancy_Pollux i got a question for you. What do you do when your country is invaded ?  Are you suggesting that self defence is terrorism now a days. And i am referring only to Hezbollah, not Osama. Or Israel has the copyrights to the word "SELF DEFENCE" and Arabs aren't allowed to use it ?
I'm quite sure that if the U.S. was invaded the U.S. army would NOT hide in our neighborhoods using civilians as shields. Additionally, we would be attacking our invaders, not blindly launching rockets into civilian neighborhoods.
I am pretty sure they would do the same if they had the hardware for it. But remember when they made the IDF to retreat it wasn't by hiding with civilians.

Here i will past it again and say it again. It's only the Hezbollah who is using human shields.


http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Sh … _Hanun.asp

And again by your definition of terrorism groups like Partisans in WW2 are terrorist.


https://lorenz.ist.org/fba/pic/partisan.jpg

These are terrorist right ?

Last edited by bogo24dk (2006-08-25 16:55:13)

2006-08-25 16:53:37
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

rawls2 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

just like how the UN was a target
just like how evacuating people are a target
just like how coastal oil tanks are a target (causing a natural disaster, a complete disregard for this planet's people.  I fart in their general direction.)
Again, the UN would not have been accidently bombed if Hezbollah wasn't fighting from the area.

Evacuating civilians would have been safe if hezbollah would not have called "shotgun" and squeezed into the cars of innocents.

The oil tanks were probably an oopsy. Unless hezbollah was hanging around the tankers shooting Kaytushas
so I guess it's all ok, because, wherever any Lebanese people go, there are always terrorists.  At least that's what we've heard.   It's all ok that the entire population of earth be wiped clean because of one guy somewhere?  You might as well be saying all arabs deserve to be bombed because wherever they go, at least one terrorist is present.  What if they evacuated one by one, what then?  just kill them all just in case?

Suggest how Israel judges a person's terrorist status from the gunner seat in an attack helicopter. 
Because Hellfire missiles are the most efficient interviewing method.
I should suggest my company use the same.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:56:10)

2006-08-25 16:54:13
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6826|SE London

rawls2 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Your definition of terrorism describes both Hezbollah and the IDF exactly.
I have listed numerous reputable sources declaring that the IDF have targeted civilian infrastructure with little to no regard for Arab civilian casualties. The goals of Israel are certainly political in nature and the whole campaign is one of intimidation.

Hezbollah=IDF=Terrorists

They are both as bad as each other. But Israel should know better. Although Israel and the Zionist movement have a long history of terror campaigns (Irgun, Lehi etc.). These terror groups were in fact closely linked to the IDFs predecessor The Haganah and many of their members were integrated into the IDF at it's creation. The leader of the terror group Irgun later went on to become Israeli Prime Minister.
Deliberate targeting of infrastructure, not civilians. Thats the difference.
That is the only difference. I'm glad we agree.
Targeting civilian infrastructure is against international law. Targeting civilian infrastructure with civilians inside it is essentially the same as targeting civilians. Israel routinely break international law and the majority of IDF soldiers do not care about killing Arab civilians : “In a war, these things happen. . . . It’s just a bunch of Arabs.”
Deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure has one goal, intimidation. Intimidation for political ends is exactly what terrorism is. There is a difference between deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure and targeting civilians directly, but both fall under the category of terrorism.

Everyone keeps bringing up the issue of human shields. Which, it is true, have been used to some extent. They have NOT however been used to shield rocket launch sites as has been claimed by many people on this thread. Hezbollah military planning centres ARE based in civilian areas, primarily to avoid detection, but also, it it true, to shield Hezbollah operations from attack. Not that that tactic has worked. Hezbollah's other tactics however have proved remarkably efficient. Defence analysts agree that Hezbollah's guerilla tactics were far better planned than Israel had anticipated and that they are right to claim this as a victory.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Yep. This entire thread is filled with people who are saying one thing, yet providing the wrong argument. I've pointed this out at nearly every instance, yet they still don't get it. I understand that many of you lack the level of education or experience that I have, but the line of stupidity has to be drawn somewhere. Come on, now. I guess that's what I get for arguing with pre-teens on an internet forum.
What a terribly mature and sensible generalisation. I am very happy for you with your wonderful education and life experience. I understand that some of the responses you might get may seem very badly argued or childish, but I assure you I am very familiar with the situation between Israel, Lebanon and Palestine as well as the history of the area for the past century. I would not be so quick do dismiss all views that oppose yours as uneducated. You do not for example seem to understand the history of the situation, I suggest you read some of the reports by the British government regarding Jewish immigration into Palestine (I expect now you will say what does Palestine have to do with it, we are talking about Lebanon - but the fates of the Arab states surrounding Israel are intertwined) such as the white paper of 1939 or the Hope Simpson Royal Commision report.
Which wrong arguments are people providing? The only arguments I have provided are totally relevant to the issue at hand. How is pointing out that they have been targeting civilian infrastructure the 'wrong argument' - it is the very essence of the argument. Targeting civilian infrastructure deliberately is not only illegal and against the ROE of every major western state (barring Israel) but is a campaign of intimidation and terror. I have merely been pointing out that the way in which Israel have behaved is little, if at all, better than how Hezbollah have acted - certainly less successful in it's objectives.

Israel have a long history of terrorism - the best known example of Israeli terrorism (that cannot be disputed at least) is the King David Hotel bombing of 1946. They also have a history of violating UN resolutions (more than any other country) and are one of the 3 nations who have not signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. Israel is a rogue state, moreover Israel is a terrorist rogue state. Just because Israel presents no threat to the west their actions are dismissed, which is disgraceful - international law should be inforced.
2006-08-25 16:54:40
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6805

Spumantiii wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Israel didn't invade Lebonan. They are counter-striking Hezbollah.

The Lebonese civilian death toll would be that of Israel's if Hezbollah wouldn't battle from civilian neiborhoods.

Anymore questions?
The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.

Evidence:  West Bank, Gaza, Golan.

Also:  hesbollah  ARE civilians.  Phail.
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.
2006-08-25 16:56:16
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6900|United States of America

Spumantiii wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

All Islamic terrorists should die, after all, remember the Alamo.
classic.

All bleeps should be dheeps
after all, remember the yehig


makes about as much sense
Hmmm, I tried to communicate with you using your native language of stupidity but this seems to also have failed. 

Say there primative creature, do you communicate any other way?????  Ohh Ohh E E Aw Aw?????
2006-08-25 16:57:38
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada

rawls2 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Israel didn't invade Lebonan. They are counter-striking Hezbollah.

The Lebonese civilian death toll would be that of Israel's if Hezbollah wouldn't battle from civilian neiborhoods.

Anymore questions?
The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.

Evidence:  West Bank, Gaza, Golan.

Also:  hesbollah  ARE civilians.  Phail.
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.
sigh
please 
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back.  And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-25 16:58:29)

2006-08-25 16:58:14
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6891

rawls2 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

just like how the UN was a target
just like how evacuating people are a target
just like how coastal oil tanks are a target (causing a natural disaster, a complete disregard for this planet's people.  I fart in their general direction.)
Again, the UN would not have been accidently bombed if Hezbollah wasn't fighting from the area.

Evacuating civilians would have been safe if hezbollah would not have called "shotgun" and squeezed into the cars of innocents.

The oil tanks were probably an oopsy. Unless hezbollah was hanging around the tankers shooting Kaytushas
Yes. Bad intelligence and civilian casualties are simply a part of war. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet many of you seemingly cannot. I recall there being an uproar on these forums everytime the US accidently bombed a civilian target, and many users blindly condemning the whole conflict based on that alone.
2006-08-25 16:59:12
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6805
What happened to bombing bridges to stop enemy movement. I can't blame Israel when the enemy hides among the innocent. Israel cannot sit on its hands. Again, every civilian death in Lebonan was caused by Hezbollah. How can a foriegn militant group be excused of dragging Lebonan into a war with Israel.
2006-08-25 17:00:06
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6891

Spumantiii wrote:

sigh
please 
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back.  And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
You argument is fueled by emotion, not logic. Emotion skews logic, and you end up venting nonsense and generally making a fool of yourself (not so much you as other posters in this thread).

https://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/23/009_220-109_M~Star-Trek-Spock-Posters.jpg

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-25 17:04:19)

2006-08-25 17:00:12
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6927|Canada
when people fuck up, they get condemned.
2006-08-25 17:00:32
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6826|SE London

rawls2 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Israel didn't invade Lebonan. They are counter-striking Hezbollah.

The Lebonese civilian death toll would be that of Israel's if Hezbollah wouldn't battle from civilian neiborhoods.

Anymore questions?
The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.

Evidence:  West Bank, Gaza, Golan.

Also:  hesbollah  ARE civilians.  Phail.
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.
The Israeli cities that were claimed through the Zionist terror campaigns throughout the 30s and 40s? The cities that act as staging areas for Israel to attack it's neighbours?
2006-08-25 17:02:53
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6805

Spumantiii wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.

Evidence:  West Bank, Gaza, Golan.

Also:  hesbollah  ARE civilians.  Phail.
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.
sigh
please 
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back.  And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
Im sure many people will disagree with you. After all, when Israel kicked the shit out of three armies it took land from all three. all three got some of it back. That right there shows Israel as the good guy. Had they been evil they would have kept it and had every right.

Last edited by rawls2 (2006-08-25 17:05:15)

 

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