Pages: 1 2 3 … 8

 

2006-08-21 15:53:13
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6489|Texas
After reading a few threads about the Arab/Israeli conflict, I thought I'd share a story with you. Man, you won't believe this.

Yesterday I was walking down the street with a knife in my boots, and a gun in my briefcase (concealed carry permit), and a hateful sonofabitch jumped out of the bushes and stabbed me with a knife.

I was going to shoot him, but then I realized that would be disproportionate use of force, so I put the gun away and stabbed him back.

Absurd. Allow me to use this example to tell all the people who have used the phrase "disproportionate use of force" in the last two weeks to kiss my ass.

Know why I've never been shot by a cop? I don't throw rocks and Molotov cocktails at them. Know why I don't get the shit beaten out of me by big, mean, roided up assholes? I don't spit on them.

It's the same theory in all aspects of violent human interaction. If a man hits you in the head with a stick are you going to refrain from bashing his skull with a baseball bat because you think it's only right to reciprocate with like force?

I don't give a good shit if Hezbollah was shooting .22s indescriminately into Israel, that calls for a leveling.

Worse is the whining about "indescriminate attacks". In addition to not giving a shit about "proportionate force", I don't call what Israel is doing "indescriminate". Rounds were fired from up North, rounds will be returned to the same locale. Indescriminate would be firing rounds all over Hell and half of Iran.

You think those shitheads in Lebanon are using laser guided missiles that are aimed at Israeli military bunkers? They have no idea if they're going to hit a tank, a hospital, a church, or a Girl Scouts meeting. Those dumbasses can't even AIM those fucking rockets they're firing. They have NO IDEA where they're going to land. I've got a better chance to hit a target with a WalMart model rocket.

The next time I hear someone say that after Hezbollah launched 200 "wherever the fuck they land is okay with us" missiles, and the Israelis fought back, that Israel should take care to limit civilian casualties, I'm going to shit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The NEXT time Hezbollah "targets" an Israeli military objective will be the FIRST. Once a Katusha leaves the pad, it's got a general direction and not much else. No onboard guidance system, nothing. Point and shoot. Where are the objections about that from the whiners?

I'm reading these threads and some of them astound me.

1. Don't want to be an Israeli target? Fight back against Hezbollah.

2. Can't fight back against Hezbollah? Go to the government for help.

3. Government can't help? Get the hell out of a country that is run by terrorists.

So simple.

By the way, I suggest that the next time one of you walks in on your Mother/Sister/Girlfriend getting raped, instead of bashing the guy's skull in with a 2 by 4, rape him back. Yeah, that's the ticket. Just don't be too rough. Proportionate and all... proportionate.

Last edited by Dersmikner (2006-08-21 16:20:42)

2006-08-21 15:55:14
Trigger_Happy_92
Uses the TV missle too much
+394|6641
what?
2006-08-21 15:56:06
jonsimon
Member
+224|6486
Okay, I take offense to your colorful language. I guess I should kill you.

Oh wait, you're a dumbshit! Nevermind.
2006-08-21 15:56:29
manitobapaintballa
Member
+32|6610
good post
2006-08-21 16:00:35
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6489|Texas
jonsimon, the right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins. You're welcomed to call me an idiot all day and night. You're welcomed to make 14 year old-esque smartassed remarks all day and night. You can pound me on your dorm room keyboard until your fingers bleed.

I don't give a shit.

I'd probably put up with in real life as well because if you died tomorrow it wouldn't change my life one iota. Seeing you die wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep.

However, if you decided to take a swipe at me, I'd beat you until you couldn't swing again...

That's the way of the world.

By the way, ever notice how people who whine about disproportionate use of force are generally the ones who started the shit in the first place?
2006-08-21 16:03:07
DeadboyUSMC
Member
+65|6690|NCFSU2
Kill 'em all.
2006-08-21 16:03:42
jonsimon
Member
+224|6486
Your arguments are inane and uninformed, your logic flawed in its core, and your ego a blemish on mankind.

There are so many things wrong with everything in your two posts, I'm not even going to try to enumerate them all.
2006-08-21 16:06:25
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6573|SE London

That's not a great example of diproportionate use of force, how about:

In a bar someone spills your beer, do you;

A) Get them to buy you another one.
B) Punch them in the face.
C) Grind the base of the broken beer glass into their face until you feel better about it.
D) Pull the leg off your bar stool and beat them to death with it.

I'd say options C and D are certainly disproportionate use of force and option B is a little on the harsh side. Option A is a perfectly rational reasonable response (maybe combined with a bit of abuse).

This is what people mean when they talk about proportionate force and anyone can't see that some of these responses are irrational should not be a part of civilised society.

It is far more complex with Hezbollah and Israel, but the principle still holds true.
2006-08-21 16:10:17
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6489|Texas
Ah the old standby of the beaten: "You are so beneath me, your intellect so banal, that I, the urbane intellect, am not even going to attempt to enlighten you. I win by sheer force of conviction alone. I am the illiterati, and therefore need not elucidate."

Great reply. I'm going to put it in my cache of such replies, which is reaching drive-crashing mass.

Last edited by Dersmikner (2006-08-21 16:21:33)

2006-08-21 16:11:27
jonsimon
Member
+224|6486

Dersmikner wrote:

Ah the old standby of the beaten: "You are so beneath me, your intellect so banal, that I, the urbane intellect, am not even going to attempt to enlighten with you. I win by sheer force of conviction alone. I am the illiterati, and therefore need not elucidate."

Great reply. I'm going to put it in my cache of such replies, which is reaching drive-crashing mass.
You're certainly welcome. I'm glad we could come to agreement in your foolishness.

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-08-21 16:11:45)

2006-08-21 16:11:39
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6573|SE London

Dersmikner wrote:

jonsimon, ......... You can pound me on your dorm room keyboard until your fingers bleed.

I don't give a shit.
He can pound you on his dorm room keyboard till his fingers bleed?!?!?

Or until your ass bleeds....

(sorry - couldn't resist)
2006-08-21 16:14:02
manitobapaintballa
Member
+32|6610

jonsimon wrote:

Okay, I take offense to your colorful language. I guess I should kill you.

Oh wait, you're a dumbshit! Nevermind.
no hes not hes right
2006-08-21 16:14:50
ht_fly
Member
+6|6457|Chicago
jonsimon

then your comments here carry no weight.

Cause you either counter with your evidence to back up your claim or most people will think your full of shit, just because you can't simply say you disagree.
2006-08-21 16:17:47
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6568|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

Dersmikner wrote:

After reading a few threads about the Arab/Israeli conflict, I thought I'd share a story with you. Man, you won't believe this.

Yesterday I was walking down the street with a knife in my boots, and a gun in my briefcase (concealed carry permit), and a hateful sonofabitch jumped out of the bushes and stabbed me with a knife.

I was going to shoot him, but then I realized that would be disproportionate use of force, so I put the gun away and stabbed him back.

Absurd. Allow me to use this example to tell all the people who have used the phrase "disproportionate use of force" in the last two weeks to kiss my ass.

Know why I've never been shot by a cop? I don't throw rocks and Molotov cocktails at them. Know why I don't get the shit beaten out of me by big, mean, roided up assholes? I don't spit on them.

It's the same theory in all aspects of violent human interaction. If a man hits you in the head with a stick are you going to refrain from bashing his skull with a baseball bat because you think it's only right to reciprocate with like force?

I don't give a good shit if Hezbollah was shooting .22s indescriminately into Israel, that calls for a leveling.

Worse is the whining about "indescriminate attacks". In addition to not giving a shit about "proportionate force", I don't call what Israel is doing "indescriminate". Rounds were fired from up North, rounds will be returned to the same locale. Indescriminate would be firing rounds all over Hell and half of Iran.

You think those shitheads in Lebanon are using laser guided missiles that are aimed at Israeli military bunkers? They have no idea if they're going to hit a tank, a hospital, a church, or a Girl Scouts meeting. Those dumbasses can't even AIM those fucking rockets they're firing. They have NO IDEA where they're going to land. I've got a better chance to hit a target with a WalMart model rocket.

The next time I hear someone say that after Hezbollah launched 200 "wherever the fuck they land is okay with us" missiles, and the Israelis fought back, that Israel should take care to limit civilian casualties, I'm going to shit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The NEXT time Hezbollah "targets" an Israeli military objective will be the FIRST. Once a Katusha leaves the pad, it's got a general direction and not much else. No onboard guidance system, nothing. Point and shoot. Where are the objections about that from the whiners?

I'm reading these threads and some of them astound me.

1. Don't want to be an Israeli target? Fight back against Hezbollah.

2. Can't fight back against Hezbollah? Go to the government for help.

3. Government can't help? Get the hell out of a country that is run by terrorists.

So simple.

By the way, I suggest that the next time one of you walks in on your Mother/Sister/Girlfriend getting raped, instead of bashing the guys skull in with a 2 by 4, rape him back. Yeah, that's the ticket. Just don't be too rough. Proportionate and all... proportionate.
I totally agree with you...but i would not rape the guy back...that just sick...2by4 for the win!
2006-08-21 16:18:59
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6489|Texas
Berster:

By "pound", I thought it was clear that I meant verbally abuse... if such is possible from a keyboard... I've got to be REALLY CLEAR around here when using analogies I see... No offense taken though.

You're equating kidnapping, suicide bombing and rocket launching to spilling a beer?

The key mistake in your example is that the spilling of the beer was UNINTENTIONAL. The firing of rockets is most certainly not.

In your example the second, third, and fourth options would be unconscionable. There's aHUGE difference in an accident, and an attack. Nothing is off the board when you're attacked.
2006-08-21 16:31:54
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6573|SE London

Dersmikner wrote:

Berster:

By "pound", I thought it was clear that I meant verbally abuse... if such is possible from a keyboard... I've got to be REALLY CLEAR around here when using analogies I see... No offense taken though.

You're equating kidnapping, suicide bombing and rocket launching to spilling a beer?

The key mistake in your example is that the spilling of the beer was UNINTENTIONAL. The firing of rockets is most certainly not.

In your example the second, third, and fourth options would be unconscionable. There's aHUGE difference in an accident, and an attack. Nothing is off the board when you're attacked.
I didn't specify by accident (I suppose it was kind of implied though). But this does not change the fact that this is an example of use of disproportionate force.

The fact that it is not particularly applicable to the situation with Hezbollah and Israel is deliberate - to show that analogies of this type, including those you drew earlier are not a good way to sum up these situations. I hope we can agree, based on this, that there are responses to negative behaviour that can be totally disproportionate. I am sure there are people around somewhere who might consider the 3rd or 4th options I outlined earlier and so it comes down, as most things do, to personal opinion formed by what is acceptable to society.

I should also point out that Hezbollah stopped using suicide tactics a long time ago (since you mentioned suicide bombings - which Hamas and the PLO still carry out). They are a reforming terrorist organisation. A lot like the Israeli government - but a lot less reformed.
2006-08-21 16:42:10
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6489|Texas
Well, just to let you know where I stand on violent recourse, were the beer thing an accident I'd laugh, and probably buy the guy a beer so he wouldn't feel bad, but had the guy walked up, looked me in the eye and knocked my beer into my lap with full intent, I'd pick up the glass and break it across his face.

And I wouldn't feel bad about it.

Don't throw rocks at people with guns. That's my motto.
2006-08-21 16:48:21
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6616|Home of the Escalade Herds
Logic hates this thread.
2006-08-21 16:52:09
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6573|SE London

Dersmikner wrote:

Well, just to let you know where I stand on violent recourse, were the beer thing an accident I'd laugh, and probably buy the guy a beer so he wouldn't feel bad, but had the guy walked up, looked me in the eye and knocked my beer into my lap with full intent, I'd pick up the glass and break it across his face.

And I wouldn't feel bad about it.

Don't throw rocks at people with guns. That's my motto.
It's a good motto too.

Although, again, the analogy doesn't do the situation justice - it's more like people with rocks hiding in the shadows and when you aren't looking throwing a rock in the back of your head - annoying and fairly dangerous to the people with the guns, who can't do much about it unless they manage to spot where the rocks are coming from. A risky game, but one Hezbollah have more or less won - especially if you consider the fact that the Israeli army have almost unanimously condemned the operation in Lebannon and the Israeli Prime Minister is expected to resign over this.
2006-08-21 17:04:29
P581
Monkey
+44|6460
Hezbollah is just like a little dude, who spit on a big dude, and should pay the price!

All you have proved with your "funny" story is that you can make any comparative statement to reinforce any view. It is the weakest form of argument, hollow and full of arrogance. Writer's and debaters who use comparisons rather than fact and personal experience to make their points are often shallow and ignorant about the things they are talking about.

You also seem to feel that you should dictate morals to us like; how I should feel about violence, or what I should do if someone hurts me. I have always stood up for myself and those people I perceive to be weaker than me, but in doing so I am not saying that it is my moral duty to murder Middle Eastern people because they Murder Israelis. I know not many people hold life sacred, I don't expect them to. But what happened to a rational decision making process. There is a middle ground, and a multitude of serious solutions which do not include killing people. I hold life in the highest regard, and I find your opinion about the use of violence as  disgusting and primitive.

Hezbollah is not this little dude you are talking about, it is a militant Islamic extremist group, with nuances and depths to its philosophy and practices that you don't comprehend because you are content with being entertained by news organizations who care more about ratings than reporting. Hezbollah, and Lebanese are people, you seem to forget that you share some very similar traits with them, unless my hypothesis is true, in which case you are a monkey trained to type Internet flames as some sort of sociological experiment.

It's like you just regurgitated something you read on CNN or saw on Fox News, paraphrase so you sound like you know what you are talking about, then add violent extremist images of your own devise. Comparing rocket attacks on Israel to someone raping my sister. Neither of those acts have anything to do with each other, and what you have accomplished is bullying some other people who don't think for themselves into agreeing with nonsense so you can earn some imaginary points that outside of a few hours of your life a day mean NOTHING at all.

This topic must cease to exist, it sucks, and the author is little more than a point farmer looking for a quick fix to get some karma. To what purpose I still boggle.

Want to really disarm millitants? Educate and tolerate.
2006-08-21 17:57:51
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6681|Tampa Bay Florida

jonsimon wrote:

Your arguments are inane and uninformed, your logic flawed in its core, and your ego a blemish on mankind.

There are so many things wrong with everything in your two posts, I'm not even going to try to enumerate them all.
QFE

more like... you walk up to a guy, kick him in the balls, steal his wallet, 20 years later he comes back, kicks you in the shin, you pull out a gun and kill him, and when they arrest you, you cry about how he provoked you.
2006-08-21 18:08:20
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6748|Argentina
This thread is a joke right?
If it is +1 for you is very funny.  LMAO.
Wtf.
2006-08-21 18:09:14
mikeyb118
Evil Overlord
+76|6590|S.C.
Valid point (some language used not necessary)
2006-08-21 19:19:08
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|6755|d
Worse is the whining about "indescriminate attacks". In addition to not giving a shit about "proportionate force", I don't call what Israel is doing "indescriminate". Rounds were fired from up North, rounds will be returned to the same locale. Indescriminate would be firing rounds all over Hell and half of Iran.
I don't give a shit wot u call it. SO collective punishment is wot you really want to say ?. Do u know which context your are using the word indiscriminate ?, we are talking about a lot of people dieing, and if you cant comprehend that fact, you deserve to die.


You think those shitheads in Lebanon are using laser guided missiles that are aimed at Israeli military bunkers? They have no idea if they're going to hit a tank, a hospital, a church, or a Girl Scouts meeting. Those dumbasses can't even AIM those fucking rockets they're firing. They have NO IDEA where they're going to land. I've got a better chance to hit a target with a WalMart model rocket.
MEANWHILE, you think the shit heads in isreal are not using laser guided missiles? They have every idea if they're going to hit a child, a hospital, a mosque, or a boys scots meeting. They know where they're going to land.  AND WE STILL SEE SHIT LIKE THIS:

Lebanon 954 dead
3,600 wounded

Israel 43 dead
~1,350 wounded

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties … n_conflict)

let now forget all the homes, road, etc isreal has destroyed.


The next time I hear someone say that after Hezbollah launched 200 "wherever the fuck they land is okay with us" missiles, and the Israelis fought back, that Israel should take care to limit civilian casualties, I'm going to shit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The NEXT time Hezbollah "targets" an Israeli military objective will be the FIRST. Once a Katusha leaves the pad, it's got a general direction and not much else. No onboard guidance system, nothing. Point and shoot. Where are the objections about that from the whiners?
who said "wherever the fuck they land is okay with us" ?.  GO SHIT NOW, Civilian casualties should be limited in any situation.

"Throw rocks if u have nothing and stop giving a shit about consequences a long time ago"
2006-08-21 19:29:29
Sombo
Member
+2|6454

Dersmikner wrote:

After reading a few threads about the Arab/Israeli conflict, I thought I'd share a story with you. Man, you won't believe this.

Yesterday I was walking down the street with a knife in my boots, and a gun in my briefcase (concealed carry permit), and a hateful sonofabitch jumped out of the bushes and stabbed me with a knife.

I was going to shoot him, but then I realized that would be disproportionate use of force, so I put the gun away and stabbed him back.

Absurd. Allow me to use this example to tell all the people who have used the phrase "disproportionate use of force" in the last two weeks to kiss my ass.

Know why I've never been shot by a cop? I don't throw rocks and Molotov cocktails at them. Know why I don't get the shit beaten out of me by big, mean, roided up assholes? I don't spit on them.

It's the same theory in all aspects of violent human interaction. If a man hits you in the head with a stick are you going to refrain from bashing his skull with a baseball bat because you think it's only right to reciprocate with like force?

I don't give a good shit if Hezbollah was shooting .22s indescriminately into Israel, that calls for a leveling.

Worse is the whining about "indescriminate attacks". In addition to not giving a shit about "proportionate force", I don't call what Israel is doing "indescriminate". Rounds were fired from up North, rounds will be returned to the same locale. Indescriminate would be firing rounds all over Hell and half of Iran.

You think those shitheads in Lebanon are using laser guided missiles that are aimed at Israeli military bunkers? They have no idea if they're going to hit a tank, a hospital, a church, or a Girl Scouts meeting. Those dumbasses can't even AIM those fucking rockets they're firing. They have NO IDEA where they're going to land. I've got a better chance to hit a target with a WalMart model rocket.

The next time I hear someone say that after Hezbollah launched 200 "wherever the fuck they land is okay with us" missiles, and the Israelis fought back, that Israel should take care to limit civilian casualties, I'm going to shit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The NEXT time Hezbollah "targets" an Israeli military objective will be the FIRST. Once a Katusha leaves the pad, it's got a general direction and not much else. No onboard guidance system, nothing. Point and shoot. Where are the objections about that from the whiners?

I'm reading these threads and some of them astound me.

1. Don't want to be an Israeli target? Fight back against Hezbollah.

2. Can't fight back against Hezbollah? Go to the government for help.

3. Government can't help? Get the hell out of a country that is run by terrorists.

So simple.

By the way, I suggest that the next time one of you walks in on your Mother/Sister/Girlfriend getting raped, instead of bashing the guy's skull in with a 2 by 4, rape him back. Yeah, that's the ticket. Just don't be too rough. Proportionate and all... proportionate.
What an awsome post, great analogy, good points, and very well stated. For the people that take offence or think this guy is off base I only have one thing to say, YOU ARE DILUTED! If you for one second think that you can negotiate or trust there "word of honor" then you need to re-place your head in your third point of contact where it has been for probably most of your natural born lives.


If your not a Liberal by the time your 18 you have no heart. If your your not a conservative by the time your 40 you have no brain!

 

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