BF2S Forums Serious discussion about claymores,At-mines and C4 -trolls stay away!

What do you guys think about claymores with tripwires that you can actually see and avoid. Say jump over them. To set them, you'd have to chose where the claymore is, and where the tripwire attaches to. It would make it easier for us attentive players to avoid them while still making them effective in-game.

Also, they could just make it so that if you crawl past them, they don't blow up.

Just ANYTHING TO MAKE THEM AVOIDABLE!

Todd_Angelo wrote:

I see what you're getting at SargeV1.4 but I think there are errors in your argument.

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Medics healing themselves: You kill the medic before he gets cover. if you're having a fight with a medic and he actually tries to run and heal himself he will mostly die before reaching cover.

I've seen plenty of medics do this, hell, I've even done it myself successfully more than a few times. But that's not really the core issue is it? After an exchange of bullets that the medic has won they get to take themselves back to full health, that's where the true strength of the kit lies to the player himself as a fighting unit. It's no surprise then that so many people who play medic as their preferred kit have better-than-average KDRs for the assault rifle... it's because they're not as often finished off by the next guy they encounter who pops one round into them from the MP5 and gets a kill!

SargeV1.4 wrote:

C4: Differs from claymores because the specops guy has to be there to see you himself. Also the range in which you take critical damage is smaller, I believe.

Not quite, as he can set up a trap and detonate it remotely when he sees the flag has gone neutral (or is paying attention to commander or teammates spotting on the minimap, which of course he should be in that scenario).

#1: That's what squad play is for.
#2: Do I really have to explain this? You can see C4 on the flag, it doesn't go neutral instantly, you have all the time you need to find and avoid the C4 before said spec ops guy would detonate. and if the spec ops guy was actually working together with his commander I wouldn't mind because he is still busy with the C4, and he's working together with his team and being coordinated. Which doesn't happen on pubs.

Last edited by SargeV1.4 (2006-08-19 16:47:22)

Talon wrote:

*Douses flames with fire extinguisher*

Right, who disagrees/agrees with these points?

1. All mines disappear with your kit bag, but can be reacquired if you get your kit bag before it disappears. This allows you to kill a sniper, wait 15 seconds, and go in knowing his claymores are gone.

2. Claymores can be destroyed by grenades, however, they will go off when you grenade them.

3. Engineers get a point for every mine removed. (Currently they are the lowest socring class by far. Obviously, removing AT mines exposes you to fire.)

4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.

5. Assaults get 3 smoke grenades, anti-tanks 5.


In my view this would help to balance the classes a lot. Currently, Medic and Support get all the points, engineer and AT get very few. Hardly anyone plays assault as medics can heal themselves.

Nice ideas, agree with everything apart from this:

Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.

And thats probably only because I am a medic whore atm.

IMO claymores are not the problem. Noobs with the sniper kit are.

The sniper is an efficient killing machine when the kit is in the right hands and the claymores are used as personal defense protecting your flank/whatever. Not spamming them all over the countryside. Hell you only get 2.

How many mines? How many c4? So 2 claymore is not really spam.

Yeh your going to say "re-supply will give him another 2". But he can't use them until the first 2 are detonated.

You play city maps with cqb what do you expect. Add to this some noobish players with short life span and they will try to get as many kills as possible in as short a time as possible (read before they are killed). Hence the grenade/c4 spam and few kills from using their rifle 'cause they cant hit shit at close/any range. They are out gunned with the assault rifles.

I don't see the c4/mine/claymore spam on Mashtuur or Wake with FF on. Why?

They are apparently not worried about their K/D ratio with the sniper kits else they would be efficiently conserving their ammo and claymores since his claymores disappear about 45 seconds later.
Not really that long to wait.

While we are adding reality to the GAME, lets have the dead/wounded still on the map from the previous games, decomposing and trying to shoot with 1 arm. Also, how about each time you die, so does your account/player and you must create a new one?

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

Todd_Angelo wrote:

Talon wrote:

2. Claymores can be destroyed by grenades, however, they will go off when you grenade them.

Even a lot of snipers agree that claymores should be destructible again.

Yeah,back to the stoneage where everybody was just wildly spamming grenades in every direction.

And the same goes for AT-mines - I've seen Tankwhores just clearing every inch before them with their main gun and there was no way that these guys would run into a AT-mine that blows up from a small explosion of a handgrenade.

If you have to avoid it with your movement it's a strategical element of the game,just spamming nades makes it way too easy.

There are some things that could take the pressure off the anti-claymore-lobby and still make the claymores and AT-mines useful:

1.Ability to spot and mark mines with colored smoke.

2.Longer set-up time for claymores(setting up tripwire) and AT-mines(which are usually hidden underground).

3.Ability for every class to defuse claymores which involves a little bit more skill than just hurling a grenade, but not the "impossible" method of the Engineer how it is right now.
For example like this:When you encounter a claymore go prone,crawl very,very slowly towards it and then press the kit-change button for x seconds - claymore defused.

The ability to defuse AT-mines should stay reserved for the engineer,the way of defusing the mines is ok as it is right now and this would convince people who wanna go tanking to use the engineer.

4.Click noise and a short delay when claymore is triggered - that gives you the chance to hit the deck and the claymore wounds but doesn't kill.

Sounds ok,huh?

Actually, thats a VERY good way of fixing the problems with claymores.  But, although you seem very mature about the "nerfing", i know that ALOT of people would complaing about their no longer insta-kill suicide dive weapon anymore.

usmarine2005 wrote:

MrKamikaze wrote:

i dont think engineers would do much good with claymroes.. ithnk they are more like stationary protection, and AT is usually moving a lot (more than snipers).

Not really.  They are for covering choke points and setting up ambushes, not covering a ladder because you can't shoot and move.

The AT kit isn't meant for setting up ambushes. unless its on vehicles, and i dont think claymores are very useful against vehicles =\

Hmm unconventional wepons for unconventional soldiers. Brilliant. Snipers have always been getting shit upon since day one. If its not claymores its getting flamed for being at long range. claymores have always been an anti-personell weapons. And more often than not they have been used in ambushes and other forms unethical techniques that people probably dissapprove from. let alone sabatoge. The only reason I see why they took out friendly fire for claymores and mines were because too many people use the page down key when they run right into them like they think they were power-ups.

MrKamikaze wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

MrKamikaze wrote:

i dont think engineers would do much good with claymroes.. ithnk they are more like stationary protection, and AT is usually moving a lot (more than snipers).

Not really.  They are for covering choke points and setting up ambushes, not covering a ladder because you can't shoot and move.

The AT kit isn't meant for setting up ambushes. unless its on vehicles, and i dont think claymores are very useful against vehicles =\

I had someone drive into my claymore in a buggy the other night, took him out and buggy was smokin... I think it depends on the vehicles.

i feel that you should be able to "spot" AT mines, c4 and claymores just as you spot enemy vehicles and troops etc. what do you think?

aLi3nZ wrote:

Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.

And thats probably only because I am a medic whore atm.

And there we go. You'll still get all your revives and heal points, you still get the good guns. If medics team up they'll be able to heal each other anyway. Assault now get the bonus of being the main infantry fighting class. (currently its more like Support, Medic then Assault).

BolvisOculus wrote:

Talon wrote:

4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.

Well the problem with stopping supports from "spamming bullets like crazy" is that the entire point of a Light Machine Gun is to provide lots of cover fire.  You are meant to spray your bullets in the general direction of the enemy to "ward them off" if you will.  One major advantage of the LMG (this is more real life or more realistic games than bf2, but it still holds true) is to keep your enemy from leaving their position by shooting this way so your troops with assault rifles can take them out without too much worry.

Support troops still get what, 400-700 bullets depending on the army? I think thats enough to bullet spam before finding another support or supply crate.

Canadian_Sniper_X wrote:

I use claymores solely for protecting myself when I'm sniping... Sniping would be stupid if you didn't have claymores. It leaves you open for knifings.

If snipers didn't show up under UAV or scans, then maybe claymores would not be needed.

it would be a pretty good ID if snipers didnt show up on UAV's .... I than the wookie like outfit would actually have an advantage

btw i hate claymores I dont like PPL who use C4 while no throwing it ... and as far as the Mines ... well if you can see them theres no way you will run over them ... only PPL who  dont watch the road will die of mines .... and if theyre well placed

Last edited by kn0ckahh (2006-08-20 04:13:23)

Sniper is my favourite kit, and i never spam claymores. C4 and AT mines er OK IMO. C4 takes som skill actually. Claymores are retarded, i never use them unless it`s self defense.

Mekstizzle wrote:

Imo, i'd be more than happy if as soon as a sniper was killed his claymores would instantly dissapear. Who is against my idea and why? I'd like to know.

word, you dont need them after your dead

Last edited by Fredrik (2006-08-20 05:20:45)

ShadowFoX wrote:

Their too scared to fight man to man point blank thats where the real action is at.

That statement proves that you never had a long range sniper-duel with a top20 sniper.

Sure,closecombat is fast and brutal and mistakes "pay off" immediately,a sniper duel is different but just as intense.

Most of the time you don't see your opponent but you know exactly where he is(or do you?),one mistake,one second too long looking in the wrong direction -BOOM,HEADSHOT!

And the "too scared to fight"-part is just not true.
Snipers are not scared,but they are not stupid either.
Why should I go to close combat range against a assault dude(which is their domain) when the optimum for my rifle is long range?