BF2S Forums Court decision today about govn't wiretaps

duk0r wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you read up a little bit, you will be educated by DukOr as to Alex Jones is.. But, don't question him on it, Alex Jones is beyond reproach on govt. conspiracies, he is a talk show host for christ's sake!!!!!!

"Don't question me on it"? I remember saying debate me if you want to on his 9/11 subjects, or any 9/11 events of that matter. Now you are just taking things out of context, taking cheap shots to cover up your ignorance.
I guess the admin note an your bf2s forum account says it all: "Note: profoundly stupid"

I did question your sources and you started with your high school insults


Being called "stupid" by a bunch of liberal lap dogs hardly hurts my feelings. As a matter of fact, the notion that you think my thinking is too far gone for your tastes and your ideals is a compliment. I thank you.

TeamZephyr wrote:

lowing wrote:

To answer all of this, once again. YOU DID NOT, "research" any of this, YOU found a talk show host that claims HE has it all figured out, and since YOU want to believe him because YOU are a young hippie trying to be cool you choose to follow his rhetoric. I put as much faith in YOUR ALEX JONES, or LIMBAUGH or HANNITY as I put in the Sunday preacher who is going to tell me what happens when I die, because HE went to bible college and he knows. I only put up Hannity and Limbough because your yard stick for measuring "proof" is a talk show host.

I have always maintained, and the bottom line for me is, We were attacked, Bush wasn't on the damn plane flying it into the WTC, our allies have been attacked. Since 911, American soil has NOT been attacked again. THAT is a good thing, after several attempts. Those are the facts that matter to me.

Now, you and your hippie "admin" geek squad buddies can tag me all you want, the fact is, when you grow up and earn everything you work for, you will want to protect it as well. You will not want to give it to those that chose not to work for it themselves. It won't be cool to be a hippie liberal dumb fuck. I guess you will just have wait and see.

Once again you've proved your lack of ability to give intelligent debate by resorting to stereotypes.

When you look at 9/11 footage or footage of any terrorist attack think one thing. And that thing is WHY. WHY do these people kill themselves? The "terrorists" of Hamas and Hezbollah do these things because they is no other way. They are sick of being oppressed by the West and take their own lives so that their people can get the freedom they deserve.

Glad to know where we "hippie liberal dumb fuck"s stand mate.

Hey junior, look at history, the ME was oppressed long before the USA was even a fuckin' country....try again

stop with the exucuses for this behavior already.

TeamZephyr wrote:

lowing wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

Once again you've proved your lack of ability to give intelligent debate by resorting to stereotypes.

When you look at 9/11 footage or footage of any terrorist attack think one thing. And that thing is WHY. WHY do these people kill themselves? The "terrorists" of Hamas and Hezbollah do these things because they is no other way. They are sick of being oppressed by the West and take their own lives so that their people can get the freedom they deserve.

Glad to know where we "hippie liberal dumb fuck"s stand mate.

Hey junior, look at history, the ME was oppressed long before the USA was even a fuckin' country....try again

stop with the exucuses for this behavior already.

What do you mean by the ME?

And what behaviour are you speaking of?

ME= Middle EAST

Behavior= Islamic radicals and their action toward EVERYONE, that doesn't back them

TeamZephyr wrote:

lowing wrote:

To answer all of this, once again. YOU DID NOT, "research" any of this, YOU found a talk show host that claims HE has it all figured out, and since YOU want to believe him because YOU are a young hippie trying to be cool you choose to follow his rhetoric. I put as much faith in YOUR ALEX JONES, or LIMBAUGH or HANNITY as I put in the Sunday preacher who is going to tell me what happens when I die, because HE went to bible college and he knows. I only put up Hannity and Limbough because your yard stick for measuring "proof" is a talk show host.

I have always maintained, and the bottom line for me is, We were attacked, Bush wasn't on the damn plane flying it into the WTC, our allies have been attacked. Since 911, American soil has NOT been attacked again. THAT is a good thing, after several attempts. Those are the facts that matter to me.

Now, you and your hippie "admin" geek squad buddies can tag me all you want, the fact is, when you grow up and earn everything you work for, you will want to protect it as well. You will not want to give it to those that chose not to work for it themselves. It won't be cool to be a hippie liberal dumb fuck. I guess you will just have wait and see.

Once again you've proved your lack of ability to give intelligent debate by resorting to stereotypes.

When you look at 9/11 footage or footage of any terrorist attack think one thing. And that thing is WHY. WHY do these people kill themselves? The "terrorists" of Hamas and Hezbollah do these things because they is no other way. They are sick of being oppressed by the West and take their own lives so that their people can get the freedom they deserve.

Glad to know where we "hippie liberal dumb fuck"s stand mate.

Sorry but you are completely wrong, they kill themselves, because they hate us, and consider themselves a marter. It's a religous thing nothing more. We do not follow their religion, so they feel they must kill us, and they will recieve 70 virgins by doing so.

TeamZephyr wrote:

psychotoxic187 wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

Once again you've proved your lack of ability to give intelligent debate by resorting to stereotypes.

When you look at 9/11 footage or footage of any terrorist attack think one thing. And that thing is WHY. WHY do these people kill themselves? The "terrorists" of Hamas and Hezbollah do these things because they is no other way. They are sick of being oppressed by the West and take their own lives so that their people can get the freedom they deserve.

Glad to know where we "hippie liberal dumb fuck"s stand mate.

Sorry but you are completely wrong, they kill themselves, because they hate us, and consider themselves a marter. It's a religous thing nothing more. We do not follow their religion, so they feel they must kill us, and they will recieve 70 virgins by doing so.

Good you see you've backed up your totally ridiculous argument with 0 knowledge of the Islamic religion.

That is there extreme side of their religion. The guys that flew the planes into the Twin Towers, believed this, so how am I wrong?

TeamZephyr wrote:

lowing wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

What do you mean by the ME?

And what behaviour are you speaking of?

ME= Middle EAST

Behavior= Islamic radicals and their action toward EVERYONE, that doesn't back them

Well of course they were oppressed long before the USA was even a country. The Arabic people have been on the hard end of the wood for quite a long time.

However they aren't just attacking the US for something to do. They are attacking the US because in recent century the US has decided to interfere with Middle Eastern politics too much. Supporting Israel with all the money and arms you give them is a direct spit in the face for the Middle Eastern people. And meanwhile the displaced Palestinians get their power stations bombed, water supplys cut and bridges destroyed. And when they try democracy you guys reject it.

How about Lebanon, it's been the brunt of Israel's attacks and occupation for a damn long time now, and you've supported these attacks whole heartedly. ANOTHER spit in the face of the arabic people. Take a look at Beirut now, it's hardly a city, and you except these people to sit by and take it? Hell No. Would you take it if a plane bombed the crap out of your house and took away your power and water? No you wouldn't take it, you'd hit back and that's exactly what they've been doing.

Lets move onto Iran. Did you even think when you overthrew the democratic government over Mohammed Mossadegh and helped the Shah that the Iranian people weren't going to be pissed off? You took over their government and installed a tyrannical dictator and kept their oil in British/American hands. This really pisses people off.

Or how about the innocent civilians of Iraq that for the last 15 years have been subject to regular US bombing attacks? The UN estimates that 500,000 Iraqi people have died from the bombing and sanctions. Don't you think that the familes of these 500,000 people will get annoyed and want to seek their revenge?

Open your eyes Lowing. Open your eyes to what it is that America does to other countries. Then you will see that they is a direct reason why they want to free themselves from the shackles of oppression that you support.

Ever thought that the US and other countries were trying to help the people of the ME and that the hostile govts. of the land there did not want it to happen because they would loose all of their power over their people and could no longer exploit them?? Why is it do you think the lives of the majority ME people have changed very little over the past several hundresd years. It is tyranny that  needs to be over come.

As far as oil goes. The ME is so fucked up with their turmoil it does not do the world any good to have some maniac holding the worlds oil supply hostage for his OWN personal gain.

Or have we not all seen enough of the pictures of Saddams PALACES compared to the mud huts his people lived it. Also, Saddam was only FAT Iraqi I seen on tv and in the papers.

Maybe, if you think it is the right thing to do. How about the US hold a portion of the worlds food supply and medical supplies and aid money hostage, until we get peace in the Middle East.

lowing wrote:

Ever thought that the US and other countries were trying to help the people of the ME and that the hostile govts. of the land there did not want it to happen because they would loose all of their power over their people and could no longer exploit them?? Why is it do you think the lives of the majority ME people have changed very little over the past several hundresd years. It is tyranny that  needs to be over come.

I used to think that, when I didn't know any better.

Changed very little? The Ottoman Empire broke down, then all these countries were created that never existed before, then Israel was created, the Palestinians were displaced, the Saudis took over Arabia WITH THE HELP OF THE UNITED STATES, Iran became a democracy, then the UNITED STATES overthrew the democratically elected government of Mossadegh to re-instate the Shah as dictator, then Saddam Hussein came into power WITH THE HELP OF THE UNITED STATES, then he slaughtered his own people for decades with the U.S. constantly increasing their support for their favorite thug, the Butcher of Baghdad, sending him more weapons and more money. Is that your idea of the United States "trying to help them?" It seems to me that:

a) Things have changed quite a bit over the hundreds of years
b) The tyranny in the region is overwhelmingly thanks to U.S. meddling in the region.

lowing wrote:

Yup, can't deny it, however, you are talking decades of changes since then, allies change, times change, enemies who were on the back burner move forward. America allies it's self first with friends, second, with the lesser of 2 evils. Old news, and certainly NOT unprecedented.

I don't understand now you are saying there have been decades of changes in the Middle East? Your last post stated that there haven't been any changes for hundreds of years. What is your position?

Also, you repeat the standard government line about how we did lots of bad things years ago but that was in the past, now we are different. In the seventies it was "Sure we propped up dictatorships in Italy, Greece, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Iran" but now we are fighting for freedom in Vietnam. In the eighties it was "Sure we killed millions of innocent people in Vietnam but now we are fighting for freedom in Afghanistan and El Salvador." In the nineties it was "Sure we sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq, trained Osama bin Laden through the CIA, financed death squads in El Salvador, but now we are fighting for the freedom of the Kuwaiti people (and later the Yugoslavian people.) Now it's "Sure we did some bad stuff in the past, but now we are fighting for freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan (sound familiar?) In ten years it will be a different spiel, but the reality will be the same. Nothing has changed, America is still the world's jack boot, still oppresses millions of people worldwide and will continue to do so until it no longer has the power to do so or until the American people stop it from doing so. And people like you will continue to berate America's critics as simply "anti-American, who hate our freedom," and will never understand what your government does in your name to draw the ire of so many people around the world.

JimmyBotswana wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yup, can't deny it, however, you are talking decades of changes since then, allies change, times change, enemies who were on the back burner move forward. America allies it's self first with friends, second, with the lesser of 2 evils. Old news, and certainly NOT unprecedented.

I don't understand now you are saying there have been decades of changes in the Middle East? Your last post stated that there haven't been any changes for hundreds of years. What is your position?

Also, you repeat the standard government line about how we did lots of bad things years ago but that was in the past, now we are different. In the seventies it was "Sure we propped up dictatorships in Italy, Greece, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Iran" but now we are fighting for freedom in Vietnam. In the eighties it was "Sure we killed millions of innocent people in Vietnam but now we are fighting for freedom in Afghanistan and El Salvador." In the nineties it was "Sure we sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq, trained Osama bin Laden through the CIA, financed death squads in El Salvador, but now we are fighting for the freedom of the Kuwaiti people (and later the Yugoslavian people.) Now it's "Sure we did some bad stuff in the past, but now we are fighting for freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan (sound familiar?) In ten years it will be a different spiel, but the reality will be the same. Nothing has changed, America is still the world's jack boot, still oppresses millions of people worldwide and will continue to do so until it no longer has the power to do so or until the American people stop it from doing so. And people like you will continue to berate America's critics as simply "anti-American, who hate our freedom," and will never understand what your government does in your name to draw the ire of so many people around the world.

When I refer to changes I mean in circumstances, leadership, threats, etc....the lack of changes I refer to in the ME are those of the people still living in mud huts, with no fresh water, no food, no jobs, no electricity. All the while their leadership sits on a gazillion barrels of oil pumped from the ground and nothing filters down to to the citizens.

Before the fall of the Soviet Union, everything that the US was involved in was to winning the cold war. Again the US allies itself with the lesser of 2 evils at the time. If the Soviet Union flexed its muscles around the world, the US was there to help that country defend itself. The only thing that disgusts me about America's critics, is the fact you bitch about America, then when you need help, you look toward America for free aid and handouts. Then you bitch that it didn't come soon enough, or it wasn't enough or America could have done more. Please, if you don't want us involved in your hemispheres affairs, I could not agree more. Cuz quite frankly I am sick of my tax dollars going to the UN or any other fucked up country in the world that "need our aid" but "hate our guts".... I am all for getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am all for letting those idiots kill each other off. I would just leave a note behind that read, "Your violence finds its way to America again or its allies again and you will become the next crater lake. As far as the oil in the region goes. If it is going to be held hostage from the world, that is fine. If anyone is going to mass produce cars with alternative fuels it will be America. They can keep their oil, and we can keep our food, medical technology and supplies, and aid money. I am all for being an isolationist country. I do not want to be involved with other countries problems. The US and UN are now talking about involvement in the Sudan, I say nope, because people like you find fault in the efforts put forth, while you sit and home and watch the grass grow. Boy ya gotta love a critic. You MUST be French!!!

Last edited by lowing (2006-08-27 04:26:43)

Your ignorance of the extensive humanitarian work carried out by the Irish is yet another example of you arrogance, but not worth commenting on further.

Regarding your last post, (huh, we wish), if they want to sit on the oil supply while allowing their citizens to get by on basics, as appalling as that may be to us, its really none of your damn business. This is the lesson that those of your ilk are so slow to learn.

As regards all the aid that the US gives to developing nations, yes that's true, but you need to qualify it with a couple of things: 1) the recipient is expected to be so grateful that they are expected to kiss the USA's arse, and 2) where the hell do you think that the US got the money in the first place???, yes thats correct, exploited every developing nation that they ever came into contact with.

Now when you've reached your 16th birthday and understand a little more about the world feel free to comment on such matters. You'll be sad to know that I no longer have the inclination to educate you, so good luck.

Oh by the way, I'm an Englishman living in Ireland, and you know what 'assume' makes....

lowing wrote:

For Irelands contributions to the world, not worth commenting on any further, of that I have no doubt. I can't remember the last time I read an article about Ireland's generosity.

Did you even read his post?

He says clearly that HE LIVES IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

For Irelands contributions to the world, not worth commenting on any further, of that I have no doubt. I can't remember the last time I read an article about Ireland's generosity.

The people that "we need to mind our own business" over are not getting by on the "basics" they have been dying and getting killed all thanks to their oppressive govts. If Ireland is such a big humanatarian aid giver, how can you carry the "mind your own business" attitude?

I haven't been following any of this thread but I would like to point out that this comment by Lowing is ridiculous and mind-bogglingly stupid.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_e … per-capita

Rank   
-------
#13        Ireland       $283,000,000.00 [raw terms]
#8        Ireland       $70.47 per person  [per capita basis]
#9        Ireland       $0.22 per $100 [GDP basis]

SOURCE: CIA World Factbook, 28 July 2005

Guess what? USA was nowhere to be seen in the top 20 lists! Surprise, surprise. I guess that's what capitalism is all about though so there ye go. Personally I give $60 to my two selected charities every month straight out of my bank account. Thousands of Irish do likewise. The charity of the Irish is one of our cultural hallmarks so I really am baffled as to your comments about 'Ireland's generosity'.

PS Your 'mind your own business' remark is also a bit off. Giving aid does not constitute intruding on other affairs. They can take or leave the aid you know.

Sorry Cameronpoe,

          I can find sites as well....... http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bart … 031119.asp


Also the "mind your own business" comment is not "off" ........It is rediculous to demand or expect aid from a country you DO NOT support and might even want harm to come to. Get real Cameronpoe.

Colfax wrote:

They wouldn't be in gitmo if they were not caught in the act of terrorism.

Ahaha. How incredibly fucking naive.