BF2S Forums Should the Israeli government pay to rebuild Lebanon?

dhoar4 wrote:

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

dhoar4 wrote:

No.  Lebanon are full of Muslim dickheads who have no goal in life, other than to help Al-Qaeda to blow up every normal nation.

To be honest, Israel should have kept it up.  The less lebonese we have in the world, the better...

I think that is a little to broad of a generalization my man, I agree with your first point, but not all Lebanese are pro Hezbollah/terrorists.  Hezbollah is the problem, not Lebanon.

Same shit...Different smell...lol

Why were your parents allowed to breed?

Bubbalo wrote:

Gunslinger:  You seem to miss the point.  Collective punishment doesn't just punish terrorists: it punishes everyone in their country of origin, terrorist, supporter of terrorist organisation, or bystander.  As such, it hardnes the resolve of supporters, and alienates bystanders, pushing them closer to support.

I understand that completly,  your 5 points that you posted about Iranian support is along the same lines of a number of my posts regarding terrorism and popular support.  Im saying, dont blame the IDF for it, blame the guys that make the IDF raise their hand.  Although thats not how the populous will see it.  thats like a drug dealer getting his house raided by the police and scaring his family, and then the dopeman is gonna be mad at the police when he was using his family's home to commit his foul activities.

Bubbalo wrote:

But the IDF have the ability to attack in a manner that targets terrorists, they simply choose not to.

im glad you brought that up.



There is no set way to defend against a suicide bomber.  There is no SOP to counter other than sending a whole bunch of rounds down their way hopefully before they detonate.  with that in mind,  there are new strategies and tactics that are being tried, tested and set into place for deterent.  think of it as preventive medicine.  One thing that was constantly being drummed in my head during my time in the box was "How can you defend against somebody whose sole mission and responsibilty in battle is to die?"  You cant.  You cant. You cant.  The only thing you could do is hope you wont be the lucky target.  The IDF is trying ways to prevent suicide bombing by showing the consquences of such cowardly actions.


You may goto heaven, but all your loved ones will live in hell on this earth because of the actions you DECIDED to take


Im not for collective punishment, but thats the reasoning behind it and I understand it completly.

wikipedia wrote:

Hezbollah has disclaimed the use of some terrorist tactics, particularly those that result in the deaths of non-Israelis. For example, although the group first became known for pioneering the use of suicide bombings in the region, its clerics have never been entirely comfortable with the tactic,[105] and it has not been directly involved in a suicide bombing since 1999.

although they may not do it now, they did it before Hamaz and Islamic Jihad and the egyptian muslim brotherhood and what not. before anyone in Iraq.  they made it popular.  they were the trendsetters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah


barracks bombing in beirut in 1983 anyone?

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-08-16 19:46:11)

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

Terrorism:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Sure I would agree with you whole heartedly but sorry, I would disagree saying that Israel is lawfully using force, not unlawfully.  FTW.

No, Answer Is, Thats not how War Works.

Fadedsteve:  How about you follow the conversation?  Hizballah are not currently suicide bombers, though they have been in the past.

The attack in Beirut was not terrorist.

Having said that, where did I support their actions?  Are guerilla terrorists somehow better than suicide bomber terrorists?

As to your last comment, it's only valid if only Hizballah targets were hit (or, at least, primarily Hizballah targets).

Bubbalo wrote:

Fadedsteve:  How about you follow the conversation?  Hizballah are not currently suicide bombers, though they have been in the past.

The attack in Beirut was not terrorist.

Having said that, where did I support their actions?  Are guerilla terrorists somehow better than suicide bomber terrorists?

As to your last comment, it's only valid if only Hizballah targets were hit (or, at least, primarily Hizballah targets).

See the difference between me and you, is that you dont know the definition of a terrorist!

Therefore, there is no point in arguing with you!!!!

The bottom line is. . . .  Hezbollah IS KNOWN for STARTING the suicide bomber movement!!! They are the ones all these other terrorist groups copy!! YES, in fact they still do suicide bombings, they have done them THIS YEAR!! They are not a guerilla group, they are a fully functional, fully funded professional terrorist group!! What dont you get about that?? They had more American blood on their hands than al-Qaeda, before 9/11!!!!

In fact, valid targets were hit! The Israeli's pounded their asses!! When you hide in civilian houses, store your weapons amongst the families, its becomes A VALID TARGET!! The very fact that you blindly support Hezbollah is amazing to me! They ARE the bad guys!! Again, what dont you get about that? Hezbollah was firing rockets, NOT AT the Israeli military, but rather civilian cities, yet you blather on, on how the Israeli's are killing civilians because thats their goal. 

The Israeli's could have B52'd the entire part of Southern Lebanon, and completely taken out Hezbollah, but they didnt because they wanted to spare civilian life.  If Hezbollah had B52's at their disposal, do you think they would or wouldnt carpet bomb the whole of Israel?? There is no argument here, you are wrong, and you seem to justify Hezbollah as if they are a legitimate army of freedom fighters (WHICH THEY ARE NOT, NOT EVEN CLOSE!).

So, for those who claim that Israel did well attacking Lebanon and destroying it, is it right that a whole country pays for a bunch of fundamentalist terrorists mother fuckes, I don't think so.  IMHO Israel went too far with the bombings and they should repair the damage it caused.  Before you say I'm some Hezbollah fan or some bullshit, I'm jewish and hate all form of terrorism.  But the innocent people of Lebanon what the fuck has to do with all this shit from the begining.  Same for Palestine.

fadedsteve wrote:

In fact, valid targets were hit! The Israeli's pounded their asses!! When you hide in civilian houses, store your weapons amongst the families, its becomes A VALID TARGET!! The very fact that you blindly support Hezbollah is amazing to me! They ARE the bad guys!! Again, what dont you get about that? Hezbollah was firing rockets, NOT AT the Israeli military, but rather civilian cities, yet you blather on, on how the Israeli's are killing civilians because thats their goal. 

The Israeli's could have B52'd the entire part of Southern Lebanon, and completely taken out Hezbollah, but they didnt because they wanted to spare civilian life.  If Hezbollah had B52's at their disposal, do you think they would or wouldnt carpet bomb the whole of Israel?? There is no argument here, you are wrong, and you seem to justify Hezbollah as if they are a legitimate army of freedom fighters (WHICH THEY ARE NOT, NOT EVEN CLOSE!).

So if all you're saying is true (which it's not), how is it that the Israelis caused a far higher percentage of civilian casualties than Hezbollah did. Estimates put civilian casualties caused by Israel at between 80 and 90%, Hezbollah inflicted a far lower percentage of civilian casualties, in fact the majority of casualties inflicted by Hezbollah were on front line Israeli troops.

It was not Israel's goal to kill civilians, it is just the willfull beligerance of the Israeli military that concerns me. If Hezbollah had the means at their disposal, they would be targeting the Israelis in an identical way to the way the Israelis have targeted them. Not by carpet bombing Israel, but by striking at legitimate targets with very little regard for civilian casualties or collateral damage. They would strike at the government and the military and probably Israeli infrastructure (bridges, road, airports etc.). Both sides are just as bad as each other. You claim Hezbollah started it with kidnappings, but they were in response to Hezbollah operatives being detained and held without trial - it's exactly the same.

What does it take to be a legitimate army of freedom fighters? Being elected in a fair democratic system, would, in my opinion constitute it - as Hezbollah have been.

If the British Government had bombed Northern Ireland back to the stone age after the IRA attacks on England I would be well pissed as I didn't support the IRA's actions. Yes I support a united Ireland through politics not violence like the majority.  If they had blown my little part of the world to shit and killed allot of ppl I know, there is a good chance I would sign up to the IRA's campain for revenge. If however Britain held its hands up and said, "we were heavy handed and want to rebuild your infrastructure" I would stop short of becoming a terrorist.
I think if Israel committed to repairing the infrastructure, they might just stem the wave of ordinary Lebanese citizens now rushing to sign up to Hezbollahs cause.
BTW Israel has a commitment to many countries to repair the environmental disaster threatening the Mediterranean and the millions of ppl who depend on the beach orientated tourist trade. Many countries are meeting in Grease today to discuss cleaning up the massive oil slick which Israel created.

Anyway it would be the USA that would do the repairing as they seam to fund Israels other "projects" I can't see the American tax payer going for that though, unless its Halliburton type US contractors who get the work.

Bellow is some re-ramble to the meeting.
The spill is now affecting 70 kilometres (40 miles) of Lebanon's 220-kilometre-long (140 miles) coast, a third of its coastline. Beaches and rocks are covered in a black sludge which has reached the famous tourist town of Byblos, north of Beirut.
"If nothing is done, not only will currents flowing towards the north mean that one third of Lebanon's coastline be hit, but also Cyprus, Syria, Turkey, Greece and even Israel"

"The fauna and the Mediterranean ecosystem risk suffering badly and certain species are threatened with extinction,"

owing to the Israeli blockade of Lebanon's waters, it was impossible to send ships to clear up the pollution.

Kuwait has sent 40 tonnes of material that would allow the petrol to thicken and also special carpets which absorb petroleum products.

A resident of Byblos, known worldwide for its seafood restaurants and historic harbour, said "for the last four days, fish, crustaceans and crabs have been coming in black, and they are dying as victims of this oil slick."

Fuad Hamdan, director of Friends of the Earth, Europe, and founder of Greenpeace Lebanon, agreed that "it is certainly the worst environmental disaster ever on the eastern Mediterranean coast."

Last edited by JahManRed (2006-08-17 06:12:42)

JahManRed wrote:

If the British Government had bombed Northern Ireland back to the stone age after the IRA attacks on England I would be well pissed as I didn't support the IRA's actions. Yes I support a united Ireland through politics not violence like the majority.  If they had blown my little part of the world to shit and killed allot of ppl I know, there is a good chance I would sign up to the IRA's campain for revenge. If however Britain held its hands up and said, "we were heavy handed and want to rebuild your infrastructure" I would stop short of becoming a terrorist.
I think if Israel committed to repairing the infrastructure, they might just stem the wave of ordinary Lebanese citizens now rushing to sign up to Hezbollahs cause.
BTW Israel has a commitment to many countries to repair the environmental disaster threatening the Mediterranean and the millions of ppl who depend on the beach orientated tourist trade. Many countries are meeting in Grease today to discuss cleaning up the massive oil slick which Israel created.

Anyway it would be the USA that would do the repairing as they seam to fund Israels other "projects" I can't see the American tax payer going for that though, unless its Halliburton type US contractors who get the work.

Bellow is some re-ramble to the meeting.
The spill is now affecting 70 kilometres (40 miles) of Lebanon's 220-kilometre-long (140 miles) coast, a third of its coastline. Beaches and rocks are covered in a black sludge which has reached the famous tourist town of Byblos, north of Beirut.
"If nothing is done, not only will currents flowing towards the north mean that one third of Lebanon's coastline be hit, but also Cyprus, Syria, Turkey, Greece and even Israel"

"The fauna and the Mediterranean ecosystem risk suffering badly and certain species are threatened with extinction,"

owing to the Israeli blockade of Lebanon's waters, it was impossible to send ships to clear up the pollution.

Kuwait has sent 40 tonnes of material that would allow the petrol to thicken and also special carpets which absorb petroleum products.

A resident of Byblos, known worldwide for its seafood restaurants and historic harbour, said "for the last four days, fish, crustaceans and crabs have been coming in black, and they are dying as victims of this oil slick."

Fuad Hamdan, director of Friends of the Earth, Europe, and founder of Greenpeace Lebanon, agreed that "it is certainly the worst environmental disaster ever on the eastern Mediterranean coast."

Exactly!

Dersmikner wrote:

Not only should they not pay to rebuild it, they should mow it flat again if another rocket comes out of the place.

Which would achieve....   what exactly???

That is really a very simplistic attitude to take to the problem. These things need to be solved politically, bombing them well just make more people sympathetic to Hezbollahs cause and probably encourage them to take up arms themselves.

Bombing them is never going to work, the more bombing they do the more the quality of life in Israel declines. The Israelis finally seem to be realising this, the catastrophic failliure of their incursions into Lebananon encountering far stiffer resistance than they expected by organised militant groups, has led them to see what the rest of the world have been telling them - Bombing them will do no one any good.

All it achieves is to make simple minded retards cheer and yell 'Fuck yeah, let's blow some towel heads back to the stone age'. It also reverses what would have been global sympathy for Israel and yet again paints them as the bad guys. They're not really any worse than Hezbollah - but really Israel should know better.