GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
Im not saying anything special is gonna happen, just some interesting thoughts.




http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768


August 22
Does Iran have something in store?

BY BERNARD LEWIS
Tuesday, August 8, 2006 4:30 p.m. EDT

During the Cold War, both sides possessed weapons of mass destruction, but neither side used them, deterred by what was known as MAD, mutual assured destruction. Similar constraints have no doubt prevented their use in the confrontation between India and Pakistan. In our own day a new such confrontation seems to be looming between a nuclear-armed Iran and its favorite enemies, named by the late Ayatollah Khomeini as the Great Satan and the Little Satan, i.e., the United States and Israel. Against the U.S. the bombs might be delivered by terrorists, a method having the advantage of bearing no return address. Against Israel, the target is small enough to attempt obliteration by direct bombardment.

It seems increasingly likely that the Iranians either have or very soon will have nuclear weapons at their disposal, thanks to their own researches (which began some 15 years ago), to some of their obliging neighbors, and to the ever-helpful rulers of North Korea. The language used by Iranian President Ahmadinejad would seem to indicate the reality and indeed the imminence of this threat.

Would the same constraints, the same fear of mutual assured destruction, restrain a nuclear-armed Iran from using such weapons against the U.S. or against Israel?





There is a radical difference between the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments with nuclear weapons. This difference is expressed in what can only be described as the apocalyptic worldview of Iran's present rulers. This worldview and expectation, vividly expressed in speeches, articles and even schoolbooks, clearly shape the perception and therefore the policies of Ahmadinejad and his disciples.
Even in the past it was clear that terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam had no compunction in slaughtering large numbers of fellow Muslims. A notable example was the blowing up of the American embassies in East Africa in 1998, killing a few American diplomats and a much larger number of uninvolved local passersby, many of them Muslims. There were numerous other Muslim victims in the various terrorist attacks of the last 15 years.

The phrase "Allah will know his own" is usually used to explain such apparently callous unconcern; it means that while infidel, i.e., non-Muslim, victims will go to a well-deserved punishment in hell, Muslims will be sent straight to heaven. According to this view, the bombers are in fact doing their Muslim victims a favor by giving them a quick pass to heaven and its delights--the rewards without the struggles of martyrdom. School textbooks tell young Iranians to be ready for a final global struggle against an evil enemy, named as the U.S., and to prepare themselves for the privileges of martyrdom.

A direct attack on the U.S., though possible, is less likely in the immediate future. Israel is a nearer and easier target, and Mr. Ahmadinejad has given indication of thinking along these lines. The Western observer would immediately think of two possible deterrents. The first is that an attack that wipes out Israel would almost certainly wipe out the Palestinians too. The second is that such an attack would evoke a devastating reprisal from Israel against Iran, since one may surely assume that the Israelis have made the necessary arrangements for a counterstrike even after a nuclear holocaust in Israel.

The first of these possible deterrents might well be of concern to the Palestinians--but not apparently to their fanatical champions in the Iranian government. The second deterrent--the threat of direct retaliation on Iran--is, as noted, already weakened by the suicide or martyrdom complex that plagues parts of the Islamic world today, without parallel in other religions, or for that matter in the Islamic past. This complex has become even more important at the present day, because of this new apocalyptic vision.





In Islam, as in Judaism and Christianity, there are certain beliefs concerning the cosmic struggle at the end of time--Gog and Magog, anti-Christ, Armageddon, and for Shiite Muslims, the long awaited return of the Hidden Imam, ending in the final victory of the forces of good over evil, however these may be defined. Mr. Ahmadinejad and his followers clearly believe that this time is now, and that the terminal struggle has already begun and is indeed well advanced. It may even have a date, indicated by several references by the Iranian president to giving his final answer to the U.S. about nuclear development by Aug. 22. This was at first reported as "by the end of August," but Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement was more precise.
What is the significance of Aug. 22? This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world. It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for Aug. 22. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind.

A passage from the Ayatollah Khomeini, quoted in an 11th-grade Iranian schoolbook, is revealing. "I am decisively announcing to the whole world that if the world-devourers [i.e., the infidel powers] wish to stand against our religion, we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours."

In this context, mutual assured destruction, the deterrent that worked so well during the Cold War, would have no meaning. At the end of time, there will be general destruction anyway. What will matter will be the final destination of the dead--hell for the infidels, and heaven for the believers. For people with this mindset, MAD is not a constraint; it is an inducement.

How then can one confront such an enemy, with such a view of life and death? Some immediate precautions are obviously possible and necessary. In the long term, it would seem that the best, perhaps the only hope is to appeal to those Muslims, Iranians, Arabs and others who do not share these apocalyptic perceptions and aspirations, and feel as much threatened, indeed even more threatened, than we are. There must be many such, probably even a majority in the lands of Islam. Now is the time for them to save their countries, their societies and their religion from the madness of MAD.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6731

If they do, I will get my combat boots out of the attic.
spacebandit72
Dead Meat
+121|6700|Michigan
Shorten that a bit and I'll read. That's just way too much.
No offense but I for one do not have time to read that whole thing so, what's your point?
haha yes I'm lazy!
EVIL_STYX
TANK WHORE
+62|6652|FIVE RIVERS OF HELL
GunSlinger said: Against the U.S. the bombs might be delivered by terrorists, a method having the advantage of bearing no return address.

Gunslinger I am not flaming you at all, but how would you say the terrorist's would deliver said nuclear bombs with the current state of alertness in the U.S.A? Will they hide it under there shirt !

Just joining in!

EVIL_STYX OUT!!!
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel
Armageddon
offtop: anyone know the meaning of this word?
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6488|Montucky

Lisik wrote:

Armageddon
offtop: anyone know the meaning of this word?
Armageddon

occurs only in Rev. 16:16 (R.V., "Har-Magedon"), as symbolically designating the
place where the "battle of that great day of God Almighty" (ver. 14) shall be
fought. The word properly means the "mount of Megiddo." It is the scene of the
final conflict between Christ and Antichrist. The idea of such a scene was
suggested by the Old Testament great battle-field, the plain of Esdraelon
(q.v.).
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel

[1FR]S3v3N wrote:

Lisik wrote:

Armageddon
offtop: anyone know the meaning of this word?
Armageddon

occurs only in Rev. 16:16 (R.V., "Har-Magedon"), as symbolically designating the
place where the "battle of that great day of God Almighty" (ver. 14) shall be
fought. The word properly means the "mount of Megiddo." It is the scene of the
final conflict between Christ and Antichrist. The idea of such a scene was
suggested by the Old Testament great battle-field, the plain of Esdraelon
(q.v.).
in other words... its place in Israel (mount Meggido) were (according to Tora) jews will completely beat the forces of evil!
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6595|Home of the Escalade Herds

Lisik wrote:

[1FR]S3v3N wrote:

Lisik wrote:


offtop: anyone know the meaning of this word?
Armageddon

occurs only in Rev. 16:16 (R.V., "Har-Magedon"), as symbolically designating the
place where the "battle of that great day of God Almighty" (ver. 14) shall be
fought. The word properly means the "mount of Megiddo." It is the scene of the
final conflict between Christ and Antichrist. The idea of such a scene was
suggested by the Old Testament great battle-field, the plain of Esdraelon
(q.v.).
in other words... its place in Israel (mount Meggido) were (according to Tora) jews will completely beat the forces of evil!
wtf
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel

PRiMACORD wrote:

Lisik wrote:

[1FR]S3v3N wrote:


Armageddon

occurs only in Rev. 16:16 (R.V., "Har-Magedon"), as symbolically designating the
place where the "battle of that great day of God Almighty" (ver. 14) shall be
fought. The word properly means the "mount of Megiddo." It is the scene of the
final conflict between Christ and Antichrist. The idea of such a scene was
suggested by the Old Testament great battle-field, the plain of Esdraelon
(q.v.).
in other words... its place in Israel (mount Meggido) were (according to Tora) jews will completely beat the forces of evil!
wtf
its what god says to jews 7000 years ago!
R3v0LuT!oN
Member
+22|6636|United States

PRiMACORD wrote:

wtf
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6531
Lisik: Yes, but it has recieved broader usage now.  It is also used as a general term for the end of the world, not necessarily with religious connotations.
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6595|Home of the Escalade Herds

Lisik wrote:

its what god says to jews 7000 years ago!
My money is on Optimus Prime.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/holymotherofgod/optimusprime.jpg
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel

Bubbalo wrote:

Lisik: Yes, but it has recieved broader usage now.  It is also used as a general term for the end of the world, not necessarily with religious connotations.
i just say were the word comes from, and what stand behind it!

today we use it as term for end of the world, yes... nuclear war(stone age) for us its end of the world, but it dosent mean that planet erth will desapear...
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel
btw... gog and magog also comes from tora, it means chaos and destruction... its first steep on way to armageddon!

does islamic radicals bring us chaos and destruction? hell yes!

does Mr. Ahmadinejad with nuclear bomb will bring us gog and magog? hell yes!
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6679|Wilmington, DE, US
Lisik: Fresh out of the bar mitzvah
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Madden 07 comes out that day, so yea it's important to me.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
siciliano732
Member
+202|6619|New York
the only thing that is goin to happen on August 22nd....is MADDEN 2007! woop woop!
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6540|Portland, OR, USA
if someone comes and nukes america, i am going to go apeshit on all their asses. fucking american foreign policy.. has to go pissing everyone off and now i'm guna die?

sigh.. why cant we all just get along?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6525

Lisik wrote:

btw... gog and magog also comes from tora, it means chaos and destruction... its first steep on way to armageddon!

does islamic radicals bring us chaos and destruction? hell yes!

does Mr. Ahmadinejad with nuclear bomb will bring us gog and magog? hell yes!
A valuable insight into what forms Lisik's opinions on current affairs and geopolitics. A book that is several millennia old and includes details of such everyday events as seas being parted and flaming bushes speaking.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 00:38:40)

Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6679|Wilmington, DE, US
Also Lisik, I can assure you, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE READ THE BIBLE, NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT.
Specialist
Member
+0|6531

PRiMACORD wrote:

My money is on Optimus Prime.
THATS NOT THE REAL OPTIMUS PRIME
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel

Ikarti wrote:

Also Lisik, I can assure you, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE READ THE BIBLE, NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT.
yeah! sure!
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6595|Home of the Escalade Herds

Specialist wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

My money is on Optimus Prime.
THATS NOT THE REAL OPTIMUS PRIME
Blasphemy
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6530
If you would have asked a New Yorker that radical extremist were going to kill 3000 innocents in one attack they would have thought you were crazy. Why is it so hard to believe that Iran handing a nuke off to some terrorist cell is unlikely or a nuke going off in Israel? It seems you anti-Israeli joke about this scenario. I'd be curious to hear your opinions if a nuclear device goes off in Israel. Further more, all the stuff in the bible is happening. I got my side picked.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6645|Canberra, AUS

PRiMACORD wrote:

Lisik wrote:

its what god says to jews 7000 years ago!
My money is on Optimus Prime.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ … sprime.jpg
I want those little robots which make everyone uber-powerful. What are they called again?

But seriously. Armageddon?! That's a CHIRSTIAN belief - plus, all this end-of-days crap is mostly metaphorical.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman

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