ignorance of the PEOPLE here. we, like you, are all different and diverse.CameronPoe wrote:
I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
Last edited by -=CB=-krazykarl (2006-08-14 18:14:09)
truthfully we were better of attacking a country that posed a threat to us sooner such as saudi arabia or iran, afterall most of our enemys in iraq are from the other middle eastern countriesphnxfrhwk wrote:
I firmly believe going to Iraq wasn't a mistake. Why we went there and why we are still there is a mistake. Saddam needed to be overthrown. He ran that country into the ground toilet paper was worth more than the printed money. Not to mention the torturous dictatorship he had going on there. Why nobody else sees that I'm not sure. But then again the media doesn't cover the stories about what life was like before we went there. With Saddam sending missiles into cities and other atrocities. Sure WMDs were never found but still that country needed a change. And since we are over there now we cant just leave until everything is settled. Otherwise it would just be utter chaos and turmoil for the population of Iraq. Soldiers over there now didn't just up and say lets go invade Iraq they are just there trying to help in a country where the extremist few don't want them there.
Sadly you are right they needed a dictator...I have said the same thing to my family here at the dinner table. It's unfortunate but true. Now we will end up with a stronger Iran. I get mad thinking of it.Bertster7 wrote:
You make a lot of very good points.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
If you heard repeatedly from an acquaintance how horrible you were after awhile you might say...I don't care what you think...so there is not as much arrogance involved as most may think. It's just we have our pride like all people and that's where the "America love it or leave it" phrase came from in the 60's. WE don't mean to come off so arrogant, but we get tried of constant flag burnings and criticism that we see on TV.
Remember we got attacked. So I know some of you may say, well get over it, it was 5 years ago....well I'm sorry it's not quite that simple.
I believe that, as I've stated in other threads Iraq was a mistake, but I can understand the mistake in the wake of 911. Remember we lost about 3,000 of our citizen's in one vicious attack. Plus the psychological damage of seeing the towers collapse. Don't laugh...that affected me. And I think it scarred other Americans also.
But now we are in Iraq and we have to figure out the best way to get out. Hopefully it will be soon and they will not fight after we leave...I HOPE.
Afghanistan is another story, that's where the attacks came from and I support that effort 100%. But since our government did not focus on Afghanistan it has become a mess there now because the Taliban were able to regroup.
I want better leadership...but I do appreciate some of the things Bush has done. He was in a very tough spot and he does love our country.
I could go on but I'll save it... I hope I have communicated in a way that allows you to see this American's feeling's. And maybe understand my anger at times.
I love my country and I stand behind our Military. The rest of the World needs to take into consideration we are not a bad people and even our government, as mush as you're mad about Iraq, is not killing people ruthlessly like the evil forces of darkness. You know Im right. What if Osama and MANY like him were in control. Don't kid yourself...Look at Afghanistan before the war.
Afghanistan I was totally behind the US on, even if they did make a bit of a mess of it and the Bin Laden slip through their fingers.
Iraq was a mistake, I still don't understand why it happened, does anyone? IT WASN'T ABOUT OIL!!!
"Hopefully it will be soon and they will not fight after we leave...I HOPE." Of course they'll still fight, what they need is a brutal dictator to keep them in line - oh, wait a minute....
I totally understand what you're saying. A lot of my family and friends feel this way. I initially had some of these feelings and I think many American's did. That's how the whole mess happened. But with hindsight we would have been much better of concentrating totally on Afghanistan and keeping Iraq contained. We definitely had Iraq contained no one can argue that. Hell they didn't even control there on airspace in the North and South. the invasion was a colossal error in hindsight. Maybe if it was planned differently but it wasn't.phnxfrhwk wrote:
I firmly believe going to Iraq wasn't a mistake. Why we went there and why we are still there is a mistake. Saddam needed to be overthrown. He ran that country into the ground toilet paper was worth more than the printed money. Not to mention the torturous dictatorship he had going on there. Why nobody else sees that I'm not sure. But then again the media doesn't cover the stories about what life was like before we went there. With Saddam sending missiles into cities and other atrocities. Sure WMDs were never found but still that country needed a change. And since we are over there now we cant just leave until everything is settled. Otherwise it would just be utter chaos and turmoil for the population of Iraq. Soldiers over there now didn't just up and say lets go invade Iraq they are just there trying to help in a country where the extremist few don't want them there.
Last edited by ht_fly (2006-08-14 19:06:08)
ht_fly wrote:
Howdy,
I be American. Sorry for the bad english.
Well, to stir the debate, I will add my observations.
I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. Also know as the heartland or midwest in the states. We are a little blue and red mixed together. Red State(most of the time) big blue city. (Blue=liberal Red=conservative) Those be media definitions.
In a nutshell, most Americans believe European's problem with America stem from our foreign policy and that we are always involved in something around the world. Plus, we are not afraid to position our military for a show of force, or as some media savy people like to call it "force projection."
But that is just one perspective to answer the question that you posed.
Another perspective is cultural conquest or the creeping encroachment of American Cultural into other established cultures around the world. Yeah, this is a screwed-up perspective, but actually if you think about it, it sure can piss people off.
Nice post, not well written...but I suffer from the same problem. But I liked a lot of what you had to say.
I was a foreign exchange student in my college days and my friends in Germany still call me up and ask "What hell is this guy on?" Referring to the W. But they also question why they have a new white and shiny KFC next to their McDonald's or why they suddenly find Barbie shaped noodles in their cans of Chef-Boy-R-Dee. Ah Cultural imperialism! I don't know.
But one of the perspective that I always like to think about when someone says it or writes it, is why does a country with the resources natural and human, the power and the will to accomplish great things for humanity waste it on their lack of foresight and to feed their own hedonistic greed. It sounds something like that, but you understand the theme behind it.
But that is my own educated view of why Europeans might be disgruntle with American or Americans. I could sit here all night and think of reasons. But does my perspective, observation or opinion matter? Not much compared with the average Joe on the street. And here are some of there perspectives.
Most people in the great state of Illinois, (well not great, but Lincoln is buried here dammit) worry about their house note or car note. They worry about keeping their jobs, so they can buy their kids Kung-Fu grip GI Joe for Christmas(thanks Eddy) and they are worried about crime and the cost of gas, milk and bread. Normal worries for average people. Most people have a knee jerk reaction to foreign policy or foreign problems in general. I have heard people say Iraq should be turned into a parking lot. I have heard people say nuke the jews and the arabs, who would care. But those are just comments by the ignorant and right winged idiots.
But by a large a lot of people say they feel for the situation but believe they can not help or do anything about it. Plus, the nearest border closest to Chicago is a 6 hour ride aways to the North East. They are totally insulated. I believe the word would be apathy, I could be wrong.
However, one thing a lot of Americans share with each other, is talking is nice but action is better. Let us not talk about it till we are blue in the face, let us do something about it. Which is good, but it has to be channeled properly to work effectively.
I personal do not hold ill will for anyone outside the U.S. but for few people, not countries and their populations. I believe a fundamental problem to misconceptions between America and everyone else stems from a lack of communications. Plus, Americans do not like being told what to do, we fought a revolution over it, but same with everyone else. I think the best would way to deal with problems, would not be fingering pointing, but also realizing sometimes a comprise can be reach and no one will get glory or national acclaim.
But then again, this just my perspective and I could be full of shit!
Ht Fly
P.S.
My buddy really does not care about world politics. He just eats and screws and drinks what ever country he is in, plus he loves killing people on BF2. I forgot that perspective from my second generation french american friend!
Fixed up a typo for you.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
I agree with everything ht_fly said, but will not quote it because that just wastes space.
lolBubbalo wrote:
Fixed up a typo for you.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
I agree with everything ht_fly said, but will not quote it because that just wastes space.
Last edited by Dersmikner (2006-08-14 21:27:30)
I don't like America because of her double standards. Uncle Sam was hit by a terrorist attack, admittedly a large one, yet for years they have been funding terrorist organisations such as the IRA. For those of who who have short memories, the IRA bombed civilians and civilian places as well as army barracks. Heck, even my local railway station was bombed in the run up to the 1997 general election. And anyone remember what was targeted in Warrington and Manchester? Shopping centres and streets.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
Remember we got attacked. So I know some of you may say, well get over it, it was 5 years ago....well I'm sorry it's not quite that simple.
If you read the actual words that I typed in I think you'll find that I wasn't making a general comment about all americans. I was asking for americans to post opinions about why there seems to be a general transatlantic divide of opinion on various matters. That way, if an american posts something that appears to be an incorrect assertion then we can address that. I guess you could say you have misconceptions about my OP!!-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:
ignorance of the PEOPLE here. we, like you, are all different and diverse.CameronPoe wrote:
I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
EDIT: why are they our misconceptions cameron? why once again is it our fault? unfair and unbalanced once again!
Last edited by Wasder (2006-08-15 01:48:32)
You will find its the ppl who have never been out of the Sates (like Bush before election) have the closed minded view on his unquestioning brilliance. BTW going out of the states to blow shit up for the governments oil addenda doesn't count.kilgoretrout wrote:
I'm an American and I've been to Thailand and Australia in the past two years and my experience has been like what someone said above. The people I met didn't hate Americans, they just weren't really happy about the Bush administration. I met really friendly people both places that went out of their way to make me comfortable in their countries. However, I did my best to be friendly and respectful to the people I met. I figure Americans that go overseas and act like everyone should treat them like royalty since they're American wouldn't be well recieved, but I wouldn't like people coming over here and acting like that. What do you guys that live outside of America who have met American tourists think about that?
Last edited by fadedsteve (2006-08-15 03:58:09)
Oh dear, yet another reason people in Europe get pissed off by Americans. Not because of all the things American's have, but because you think you've got it all and are so great (not all American's do, but some). Do you really believe you have it so much better than people in Europe? In fact quality of life in Europe is actually higher than in the US. Here is the list of the top 10 countries for quality of life according to the Economist magazine http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm (for 2004, couldn't be bothered to find an up to date one)Dersmikner wrote:
Probably for the same reason that the losers hated the popular in high school. Mr. Popular had more money, better women, better looks, was more athletic and generally excelled at everything, and he was a dick about it.
Should he have been a dick about the fact that he had the edge? Of course not. But so it was, and so it remains. In high school I tried to be cool to everyone, even the people I didn't know from Adam, whether they knew me or not, and it seemed they like me for that.
Unfortunately most Americans can't get past the "hey we're the shit" thing. The rest of the world knows we're the shit. We've got the bombs, the planes, the economy, the space program, the influence, the money, all of it. Our poor people are better off than some other countries' rich. No need to rub anyone's nose in it. Sadly, most of us do.
The rest of the world is the Library Club. We are Biff McPopular. Most of us don't handle it the way we should. It's much cooler when you don't rub everyone's nose in how cool you are...
Those centuries and centuries of warfare, I believe, have shown European governments that war is bad and to be avoided. America as a younger nation has been involved in wars throughout it's history. Bush (not America, because most American leaders since the end of the cold war have seemed quite sensible about wars) needs to grow up and stop causing trouble on the international stage.fadedsteve wrote:
I know that Europe isnt soft, because it has been embroiled in centuries of warfare, and most europeans are tough skinned individuals.
Everyone is different, god knows we Americans have misconceptions about other Americans from certain parts of America itself!!
Personally, I dont like how Europe acts like were idiots, because were not! We have a thriving economy, a progressive modern society, a strong organized military, not too mention we entertain the world with Hollywood films/shows etc.
Misconceptions are easy, its called sterotyping!!!!! Whether its racial or social, misconceptions are little sterotypes we have about the other people (in this case those from other countries) walking around us!!
I've met heaps of Americans over here...but most of them were/are here for reasons to do with education. Actually, all of the Americans I've met have been quite friendly.kilgoretrout wrote:
What do you guys that live outside of America who have met American tourists think about that?