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2006-08-10 08:05:52
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

EVieira wrote:

I just hope the UK police doesn't shoot any more random foreigners...
You mean innocent members of the public
I was referring to the Brazilian that was shot on a London subway by the UK police, as CameronPoe mentioned. A guy going to work gunned down with absolutely no indications of being a terrorist, pure paranoia.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-08-10 08:08:52
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:


You mean innocent members of the public
Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-08-10 08:10:05
--->[Your]Phobia<---
Member
+35|7000|UK - England

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:


Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.
oh btw im not talking about the brazilian guy here, im talking about that paedophile
2006-08-10 08:16:43
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|6875|USA
wheres cameron poe at?  shouldnt he be defending these terrorists?
2006-08-10 08:20:26
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6793|Southeastern USA

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:


You mean innocent members of the public
Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
so how long was he in england without learning the words "stop police" or whatever your bobbies say?
2006-08-10 08:23:32
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

kr@cker wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:


Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
so how long was he in england without learning the words "stop police" or whatever your bobbies say?
He spoke english better than alot of english and americans on this forum...

The police never said stop or identified themselvs. They chased him wearing plains clothes, with guns in their hands and shot him 5 times to the head. Here's a link, and it no Brazillian newspaper either: http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/7-25-2005-73702.asp
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-08-10 08:36:24
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6793|Southeastern USA
just as many reports have the police identifying themselves, but the classic rebuttal to this is that "he never had time to respond"
2006-08-10 08:37:51
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6799

smtt686 wrote:

wheres cameron poe at?  shouldnt he be defending these terrorists?
Try reading my posts. They're actually quite interesting. You might learn something. Like the fact I don't defend terrorists.
2006-08-10 09:02:02
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

kr@cker wrote:

just as many reports have the police identifying themselves, but the classic rebuttal to this is that "he never had time to respond"
Sorry kr@cker, but these "many reports" that say the police identified themselvs don't exist. Actually, what you are doing is the classic rebutal "just as many say otherwise..."

EDIT: CNN story link added: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08 … index.html

Last edited by EVieira (2006-08-10 09:04:58)

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-08-10 09:11:18
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6940|NJ
So you do think this threat has anything to do with not calling for a cease fire in the region?
2006-08-10 09:13:37
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6940|NJ

kr@cker wrote:

just as many reports have the police identifying themselves, but the classic rebuttal to this is that "he never had time to respond"
I've witnessed a few police busts when I lived in the ghetto, and both times the police didn't anounce themself. It's rather annoying really, if someone with a gun come up to me and told me to freeze with nothing else I'd run.
2006-08-10 09:17:53
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6799

cpt.fass1 wrote:

So you do think this threat has anything to do with not calling for a cease fire in the region?
Nope I seriously doubt the two things are in any way related. This whole 'not calling for a ceasefire' thing has made Tony Blair look like a dictator. He is politically dead now. He has gone against hte popular opinion of pretty much the entire country of which he is prime minister, has made his own political party even angrier than they already were and caused open revolt within his own cabinet. He's political wormfood. He has reached his lowest ebb.

Never before has the UK been lumped in as an Israeli sympathiser - until now with Emperor Blair on the scene. What a fucking despot. I feel sorry for the people of England whose wishes are being completely overlooked.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-10 09:19:18)

2006-08-10 09:58:33
Jainus
Member
+30|6820|Herts, UK

CameronPoe wrote:

Nope I seriously doubt the two things are in any way related. This whole 'not calling for a ceasefire' thing has made Tony Blair look like a dictator. He is politically dead now. He has gone against hte popular opinion of pretty much the entire country of which he is prime minister, has made his own political party even angrier than they already were and caused open revolt within his own cabinet. He's political wormfood. He has reached his lowest ebb.

Never before has the UK been lumped in as an Israeli sympathiser - until now with Emperor Blair on the scene. What a fucking despot. I feel sorry for the people of England whose wishes are being completely overlooked.
Oh how i wish you were right, but the British public is fickle, incredibly short-sighted and has an even smaller attention span. He'll be there for awhile yet, certainly until mid to end of '07 I'd guess at.

You need to remember that over here, the leader isn't particularly important to how people vote (those that do, severe case of voter apathy in the UK). Most people vote by political party and whoever happens to be in power, gets to warm the no. 10 Downing Street seat. All you have to do is look at some of the cabinet that we have and notice the number of incompetent idiots that for some reason still have not been sacked. Look at John Prescott (our deputy leader, the man in charge of the country if Blair goes on holiday or is taken out... and i don't mean to dinner...); the man is a complete tit without a department to run and without any of the normal ministerial responsibilities, yet he somehow a) remains deputy leader and b) keeps his salary and public home!

Blair is far from dead in water. He will stay for as long as he wants.
2006-08-10 10:12:50
Tunacommy
Member
+56|6864|Massachusetts, USA

kr@cker wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

mavrick 3399 wrote:

i am off on my hols next week and i think its reassuring that they are taking this seriously,
British Airways are even getting mothers to taste there children's baby food in front of there staff.
i truly hope we don't have another terrorist incident on our hands.
Ummm, what if she's breast feeding? 
hey, rules are rules, it's gotta be tasted
It actually does!  At Logan airport this morning (Boston) they were making mothers drink formula - and if they happen to have breast milk in a jar (which some mothers do for a flight) - then down the hatch it goes!  I think I would just have my wife do it.....and if she refused, might have to miss the flight.
2006-08-10 10:13:38
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6926|Canada

EVieira wrote:

So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.
This is a perfect example of how our ROE does not work in these kinds of conflicts, military, police, civilian.  At what point is a civil crime deemed terrorism?  If you were throwing shit off a building and someone was hit for example, you may be labelled a terrorist.  If you overstay your visa, you might get shot in the head 5 times.  []Makes perfect sense to me. [ /sarcasm]

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-10 10:17:50)

2006-08-10 10:14:20
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6979|California

Jainus wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Nope I seriously doubt the two things are in any way related. This whole 'not calling for a ceasefire' thing has made Tony Blair look like a dictator. He is politically dead now. He has gone against hte popular opinion of pretty much the entire country of which he is prime minister, has made his own political party even angrier than they already were and caused open revolt within his own cabinet. He's political wormfood. He has reached his lowest ebb.

Never before has the UK been lumped in as an Israeli sympathiser - until now with Emperor Blair on the scene. What a fucking despot. I feel sorry for the people of England whose wishes are being completely overlooked.
Oh how i wish you were right, but the British public is fickle, incredibly short-sighted and has an even smaller attention span. He'll be there for awhile yet, certainly until mid to end of '07 I'd guess at.

You need to remember that over here, the leader isn't particularly important to how people vote (those that do, severe case of voter apathy in the UK). Most people vote by political party and whoever happens to be in power, gets to warm the no. 10 Downing Street seat. All you have to do is look at some of the cabinet that we have and notice the number of incompetent idiots that for some reason still have not been sacked. Look at John Prescott (our deputy leader, the man in charge of the country if Blair goes on holiday or is taken out... and i don't mean to dinner...); the man is a complete tit without a department to run and without any of the normal ministerial responsibilities, yet he somehow a) remains deputy leader and b) keeps his salary and public home!

Blair is far from dead in water. He will stay for as long as he wants.
Sounds like the US, everyone votes along party lines, no matter what tard is running for office. People see a (D) or (R) next to the name, and automatically have to vote for them.
2006-08-10 10:15:18
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6916|Colorado
Haaazaaaa! for the UK police.
2006-08-10 10:21:46
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|6875|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

smtt686 wrote:

wheres cameron poe at?  shouldnt he be defending these terrorists?
Try reading my posts. They're actually quite interesting. You might learn something. Like the fact I don't defend terrorists.
wasnt that you that defended hezballah and the plo??? or have i mistaken you with someone else?
2006-08-10 11:05:00
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6794|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

EVieira wrote:

I just hope the UK police doesn't shoot any more random foreigners...
You mean innocent members of the public
I was referring to the Brazilian that was shot on a London subway by the UK police, as CameronPoe mentioned. A guy going to work gunned down with absolutely no indications of being a terrorist, pure paranoia.
First off, I'll make some points that may seem to condone the killing of this man but of course I don't.  I'm just trying to put the police's point of view across.

Okay, there have been two attempted bombings in the capital in as many weeks, with one of them killing 52 people.  Charles lived in the same block of flats as one of the suspects who'd failed the previous day and also used the underground.  The police had no idea who he was because he hadn't just overstayed his Visa; he was here for TWO YEARS illegally, avoiding our immigration system so he could take advantage of our higher wages to sent back to Brazil.  The firearms officers had no radio contact (seeing as the station is deep underground) and believed him to be a failed bomber from the previous day.

They had to make a snap judgement of do we kill this man and run the risk of him being innocent or do we not shoot and risk the lives of many many people on the train he was on.  If they hadn't of shot and it turned out to be real, can you imagine how much criticism the police would have received?  A hell of a lot more than they did.

Oh BTW, You can NOT ask a suspected suicide bomber to stop or put his hands up.  By definition, they have resigned themselves to dieing and will press their button on being stopped (hoping to take as many innocents people with them as they can).

I will openly agree that the Police made mistakes (Charles' body was evidence of that alone) but let's not think they did it on purpose or for a laugh. The man who pulled the trigger is probably suffering a lot too.  However, one thing that did annoy me was the severe condemnation that the Brazilian government gave.  It was like they have never seen a shooting before.  This coming from a country that is riddled with gun crime and gangs.  I presume your regular police are all armed?  I'd like to see how many "innocent" people the Brazilian cops shoot a year vs the British police (I bet it's way more).
2006-08-10 11:07:34
James-m
Member
+28|6793|England

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:


Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.
stop that terrorist talk right now....
2006-08-10 11:07:40
sc15
Member
+1|6714

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Our Home Secretry has just made this sound as big as September 11th.  We now on our highest state of security - critical.  Quite scary and filling up our news wires....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4778575.stm
congrats to MI5 and the police
2006-08-10 11:09:51
James-m
Member
+28|6793|England

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Jean Charles Demenenenenenezzzzzzziiiieeewesssssisiss (or whatever his name was) overstayed his visa meaning technically he wasn't a "member of the public" and the guy who got shot in Forest Gate has turned out to be a paedophile so he's hardly "innocent".....

Not saying it justifies the Police actions but I don't think either were "innocent members of the public".
I suppose you have a point.
So a guy who overstays his visa can be shot down bythe UK police? Wtf??? If you think thats OK, then the terrorists have done their job well.

EVieira wrote:

--->[Your]Phobia<--- wrote:


You mean innocent members of the public
I was referring to the Brazilian that was shot on a London subway by the UK police, as CameronPoe mentioned. A guy going to work gunned down with absolutely no indications of being a terrorist, pure paranoia.
First off, I'll make some points that may seem to condone the killing of this man but of course I don't.  I'm just trying to put the police's point of view across.

Okay, there have been two attempted bombings in the capital in as many weeks, with one of them killing 52 people.  Charles lived in the same block of flats as one of the suspects who'd failed the previous day and also used the underground.  The police had no idea who he was because he hadn't just overstayed his Visa; he was here for TWO YEARS illegally, avoiding our immigration system so he could take advantage of our higher wages to sent back to Brazil.  The firearms officers had no radio contact (seeing as the station is deep underground) and believed him to be a failed bomber from the previous day.

They had to make a snap judgement of do we kill this man and run the risk of him being innocent or do we not shoot and risk the lives of many many people on the train he was on.  If they hadn't of shot and it turned out to be real, can you imagine how much criticism the police would have received?  A hell of a lot more than they did.

Oh BTW, You can NOT ask a suspected suicide bomber to stop or put his hands up.  By definition, they have resigned themselves to dieing and will press their button on being stopped (hoping to take as many innocents people with them as they can).

I will openly agree that the Police made mistakes (Charles' body was evidence of that alone) but let's not think they did it on purpose or for a laugh. The man who pulled the trigger is probably suffering a lot too.  However, one thing that did annoy me was the severe condemnation that the Brazilian government gave.  It was like they have never seen a shooting before.  This coming from a country that is riddled with gun crime and gangs.  I presume your regular police are all armed?  I'd like to see how many "innocent" people the Brazilian cops shoot a year vs the British police (I bet it's way more).
tons more, brazilian police hunt the sewers and kill children hiding down there. its true evryone knows it, i.e the charities set up in aid of this.
2006-08-10 11:23:02
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

James-m wrote:

tons more, brazilian police hunt the sewers and kill children hiding down there. its true evryone knows it, i.e the charities set up in aid of this.
Wtf??? Hunting children who hide in sewers? Look, Brazilian police force has a dark past, but then so does the entire UK's judicial system encarcerating inocents in the past. But hunting children in the sewers? Where the hell do you people get this kind of info???
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-08-10 11:26:26
-=CB=-krazykarl
not always PWD, but usually.
+95|6780|Carlsbad, CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Looky who needs a ratings boost: Tony 'Lapdog' Blair
wow you really are an idiot. i thought it was just an irish thing that i didn't get, but no.
2006-08-10 11:31:16
EVieira
Member
+105|6722|Lutenblaag, Molvania

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Okay, there have been two attempted bombings in the capital in as many weeks, with one of them killing 52 people.  Charles lived in the same block of flats as one of the suspects who'd failed the previous day and also used the underground.  The police had no idea who he was because he hadn't just overstayed his Visa; he was here for TWO YEARS illegally, avoiding our immigration system so he could take advantage of our higher wages to sent back to Brazil.  The firearms officers had no radio contact (seeing as the station is deep underground) and believed him to be a failed bomber from the previous day.

They had to make a snap judgement of do we kill this man and run the risk of him being innocent or do we not shoot and risk the lives of many many people on the train he was on.  If they hadn't of shot and it turned out to be real, can you imagine how much criticism the police would have received?  A hell of a lot more than they did.

Oh BTW, You can NOT ask a suspected suicide bomber to stop or put his hands up.  By definition, they have resigned themselves to dieing and will press their button on being stopped (hoping to take as many innocents people with them as they can).

I will openly agree that the Police made mistakes (Charles' body was evidence of that alone) but let's not think they did it on purpose or for a laugh. The man who pulled the trigger is probably suffering a lot too.  However, one thing that did annoy me was the severe condemnation that the Brazilian government gave.  It was like they have never seen a shooting before.  This coming from a country that is riddled with gun crime and gangs.  I presume your regular police are all armed?  I'd like to see how many "innocent" people the Brazilian cops shoot a year vs the British police (I bet it's way more).
I agree with you, the men who shot him were doing their job and reacted accordinly to the information they had. But I cannot agree to the slap on the wrist the UK police comanders received. This was a serious fuckup, they could have killed ANYONE. And if that wasn't enough, the police LIED by saying he ran, he was wearing a big heavy coat and that he had a bag. I'm not saying you should charge people with murder, but someone high up screwup bad and should have been punished accordinly.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)

 

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