BF2S Forums Mr. Ernesto Guevara

CameronPoe wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

To free Latin America

LOL Latin America free,.......hahahahahahaha what fantasy world do you live in? Latin America is one of the most repressed, and poor areas in the world.
anyway "Che" was a street level thug/gangbanger who had enough charisma to gain enough street thugs to attack a corrupt government, to replace it with another.

I'm well aware Latin America is far from free. Hopefully Ignacio Lula da Silva, Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez can do something about that.

EVieira wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

LOL Latin America free,.......hahahahahahaha what fantasy world do you live in? Latin America is one of the most repressed, and poor areas in the world.
anyway "Che" was a street level thug/gangbanger who had enough charisma to gain enough street thugs to attack a corrupt government, to replace it with another.

I'm well aware Latin America is far from free. Hopefully Ignacio Lula da Silva, Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez can do something about that.

Geez, don't get me started on Chavez, Morales and Lula... These guys shouldn't even be mentioned on a thread with Che... Not that I think that highly of Che either, but he has his merits.

Latin America has democratic elections in every country, I think, and as far as I know free speech and equal rights too. So whats this about LA not being free? And we are not that poor either, Brazil is one of the 20 wealthiest countries in the world. Our biggest problem is wealth distribution, not wealth itself.

If you think we aren't free, take a look at China... I probably would be arrested and shot for some of the things I posted on BF2s

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm not talking about free in the democratic sense - I'm talking about being unfree in terms of the overwhelming concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, with no signs of that changing, i.e. the corporate conquest of Latin America keeping the poor poor and the rich rich. Democracy is ill-equipped to combat this.

Last edited by EVieira (2006-08-04 10:41:35)

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm not talking about free in the democratic sense - I'm talking about being unfree in terms of the overwhelming concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, with no signs of that changing, i.e. the corporate conquest of Latin America keeping the poor poor and the rich rich. Democracy is ill-equipped to combat this.

Ikarti wrote:

Now most of you know me as a flametroll/liberal/piece of shit/fag/CockRat/islamofacist/etc.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

democratic elections yes, but  you can't tell me that there are polling places in every place that has people,

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

besides the rich politicians control everything, and they are as corrupt or more so than they are here. yeah 20 weathiest...., money distribution......, you made my point for me, thats how you repress people, give them no money and no opportunities, they can have all the "free speech" and "equal rights" they want, go ahead, you cant buy shit with free speech, and if you dont have equal money, or opportunity, you dont have equal rights.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

and finally china......., um, can you say; "comparing apples, and rocks"?

EVieira wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

democratic elections yes, but  you can't tell me that there are polling places in every place that has people,

Yes I can. Brazil has the most advanced voting system in the world, totally eletronic, and reaches <b>every</b> city, town and village in the country. And when I mean every city, town and village, I include places deep in the amazon jungle that can only be reached by boat or helicopter. On the last election, this system processed over 50 million votes in a couple of hours. No other country can beat that at the moment. Specially the US and the state of Florida...

1.  ok i have never seen it....have you? ill take your word for it.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

besides the rich politicians control everything, and they are as corrupt or more so than they are here. yeah 20 wealthiest...., money distribution......, you made my point for me, thats how you repress people, give them no money and no opportunities, they can have all the "free speech" and "equal rights" they want, go ahead, you cant buy shit with free speech, and if you dont have equal money, or opportunity, you dont have equal rights.

So you are so worried with what you can buy with free speech and equal rights, the reason for that is because you have no idea what a gift it is to have those rights. You have no idea what it is to be repressed. What it is to see family members disappear in the night because they spoke their minds. To be bruttaly beaten and tortured because you believe in a a system that is diferent than the one in power. Money means absolutely nothing when you can't even guarantee the safety of your home and family, afraid that in the middle of the night they might come and take you away.

2.  i should have expounded further, what i meant is that there is more to repression, than speech, and liberty, there is also monetary repression. and i do realize what a gift freedom is, and i do know about repression, so dont assume too much.... and you cant tell me that what you are talking about about the beatings, disappearances doesnt still happen there.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

and finally china......., um, can you say; "comparing apples, and rocks"?

China and Brazil have things in commom, on of them is the great disparities in the wealth distribuiton. Also, they are both developing countries. And in terms of freedom, you can compare any two countries.

CameronPoe wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm not talking about free in the democratic sense - I'm talking about being unfree in terms of the overwhelming concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, with no signs of that changing, i.e. the corporate conquest of Latin America keeping the poor poor and the rich rich. Democracy is ill-equipped to combat this.

wow you change what you say faster than john kerry, no wonder why you call yourself "fair and balanced" you better have "fairly good balance" to keep on top of your backpedaling!

I think you'll find when reading my posts that I never at any point suggested Latin Americans didn't have democratic freedom. Your retort is lame to say the least. It's like you ran out of arguments so resorted to smacktard fabricated claims to discredit what I wrote. There is more than one type of freedom you know, economic freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, freedom to urinate in public, etc.

Last edited by -=CB=-krazykarl (2006-08-04 11:38:21)

Ikarti wrote:

Alright. So I've noticed the Che sig wars going on. Good stuff. Now most of you know me as a flametroll/liberal/piece of shit/fag/islamofacist/etc. (none of which I really claim to be, though Islamofacist has a nice ring to it), however, I think Che was really nothing more than a murderer who at the very least is an extremely overrated individual. He got his hands cut off and burying under a runway in the end. Ironic that the picture of him has become a prime example of capitalism.

So your views. Or a forum to call each other names over the subject. Begin.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

wow you change what you say faster than john kerry, no wonder why you call yourself "fair and balanced" you better have "fairly good balance" to keep on top of your backpedaling!

I think you'll find when reading my posts that I never at any point suggested Latin Americans didn't have democratic freedom. Your retort is lame to say the least. It's like you ran out of arguments so resorted to smacktard fabricated claims to discredit what I wrote. There is more than one type of freedom you know, economic freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, freedom to urinate in public, etc.

your first post remember,way back when....... "to free latin america" you wrote that, or did you cut and paste, and steal it from some source you didnt claim? in that context it meant freedom, not "overwhelming concentration distribution of wealth". so "captiain resorting to smacktardedness", (you started the personal attacks), i know about the different kinds of freedom, i just took what you wrote, or stole, in the context it was given, and noticed how you pedalled faster than a one legged man on a unicycle, and commented on it.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-04 11:46:32)

EVieira wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

3.  you can compare anything with anything, but comparing brazil and china is ludicrous. you are talking about "democracy" and "communism"

regardless i am glad we can discuss these things in a rational manner without flaming and personal attacks

I have to disagree with you, its because they <b>are</b> diferent that we can compare them. If they were the same, there  would be no comparison. They would be just the same.

But back to the topic, Che fought for freedom, for liberty. He did this at no personal gain, at least none that I know. And if there was bloodshed caused by this, is there any revolution that didn't have this? If he is to be called a murderer, then so is Robert E. Lee and his fellow Confederalists.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

and you may want to read a little more about robert e lee, and the confederates before throwing that whole chestnut into a discussion.

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm not talking about free in the democratic sense - I'm talking about being unfree in terms of the overwhelming concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, with no signs of that changing, i.e. the corporate conquest of Latin America keeping the poor poor and the rich rich. Democracy is ill-equipped to combat this.