Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6971|Wilmington, DE, US
Alright. So I've noticed the Che sig wars going on. Good stuff. Now most of you know me as a flametroll/liberal/piece of shit/fag/islamofacist/etc. (none of which I really claim to be, though Islamofacist has a nice ring to it), however, I think Che was really nothing more than a murderer who at the very least is an extremely overrated individual. He got his hands cut off and burying under a runway in the end. Ironic that the picture of him has become a prime example of capitalism.

So your views. Or a forum to call each other names over the subject. Begin.
Mista Smokes
Member
+5|6868
are you a racist? your sig isnt very nice...
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6823
How so?
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6971|Wilmington, DE, US
This isn't going very far.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7034|PNW

I don't understand how that signature is racist. It's just a few people posing with RPG's.
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6893|Finland

Ikarti wrote:

This isn't going very far.
I sense that CameronPoe is currently composing something very comprehensive.

Last edited by DonFck (2006-08-04 01:08:53)

I need around tree fiddy.
ozzie_johnson
Member
+98|6920|Penrith, N.S.W, Australia
its just a bunch of crazy middle eastern people playing with, ummm rpg's????
AlbertWesker[RE]
Not Human Anymore
+144|6906|Seattle, WA
How the fuck do you get off calling him an image of capitalism.....ummm communism, socialism, I'd even accept mormonism, but CAPITALISM = Che

OMFG

Anyways, people label him as a revolutionary, but he is just a shitbag whore who helped Castro, and killed innocent people, though libs won't believe it. 

For example: I say to one of my professors, Che killed innocents, its documented, RIGHT here, he even fucking wrote about.

Prof: Nope, didn't happen, I think you need to get your facts straight.




OMG
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7103|Cologne, Germany

well, most "freedom fighter" were murderers themselves, not much better than the regimes they tried to overthrow. I guess Ghandi was an exception...

For a while, T-Shirts with a picture of him were famous among young adults who were opposed to their conservative governments, for example during the student protests here in germany in the 60's.
I have always viewed Che like that, a poster boy for nonconformists.
More of a pop star than a real political figure, I guess...
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6978

B.Schuss wrote:

well, most "freedom fighter" were murderers themselves, not much better than the regimes they tried to overthrow. I guess Ghandi was an exception...

For a while, T-Shirts with a picture of him were famous among young adults who were opposed to their conservative governments, for example during the student protests here in germany in the 60's.
I have always viewed Che like that, a poster boy for nonconformists.
More of a pop star than a real political figure, I guess...
true, but theres a lot of anti-che shirts out there. i think he was only famous not for his acts, but for that pose of his.

https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8062/rectcommiesyv6.jpg
https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6346/squarelargelousycy2.jpg
https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1867/squarelargemuertord9.jpg
https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9651/rectchecapsandzy4.jpg

then theres this...

https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9449/squarelargeredefeatbi2.gif
https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9376/squarelargedefeatgd1.gif
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7025|d
how come i dont see the sig everyone is talkin about ,: (. no fair. :p :p
buttersIRL
Member
+17|6859
the photographer who owned that image of Che decided to not charge for it being used. 

That's probably why its one of the most used images in the world because T-shrt manufacturers do not have to pay anyone to use the image thus lower costs and more profit for them,
bit of a weird situation really,   selling a communist image for capitalist reasons. !
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6997|California
Yeah, I'm gonna be a non-conformist and buy this t-shirt that millions of people have.

Yay Che! Hooray for Che!

Best shirt is the viva la revolucion shirt with Corey Feldman in the Che pose. They don't sell it any more, durn.

"Abracadabra. Damn, you're still ugly."
WilhelmSissener
Banned
+557|6995|Oslo, Norway
uhmm, your dumb, really dumb. this is what makes the world hate america. and when i say this i mean: little bitches who do not know any history at all or facts that matter
RichyCizzo
Member
+9|6740|Florida
So I guess I'm the only one who thought you were talking about Ernest, from the movies like "Ernest goes to Jail", and not Che.
Snipedya14
Dont tread on me
+77|6957|Mountains of West Virginia

WilhelmSissener wrote:

uhmm, your dumb, really dumb[/b]
Says the person with Petition spelled PETIOTION  in their sig.
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6885|Camp XRay

Snipedya14 wrote:

WilhelmSissener wrote:

uhmm, your dumb, really dumb[/b]
Says the person with Petition spelled PETIOTION  in their sig.
Haha... at this point I could put pwnt/fail or something stupid comment but it is so played out I think I will just point to the fact it's people like snipedya who are killing bf2s. If your going post a comment, atleast put more than 5 secs of thought behind it.

EX. Detractors argue that while much propaganda depicts him as a formidable warrior, Guevara was ineffective; in reality a poor tactician. They dispute accounts of the Battle of Santa Clara; on the capturing of a train supplying heavy reinforcements, critic Álvaro Vargas Llosa writes, "Numerous testimonies indicate that the commander of the train surrendered in advance, perhaps after taking bribes."Empirically, Guevara was a major failure at managing the Cuban economy, as he "oversaw the near-collapse of sugar production, the failure of industrialization, and the introduction of rationing—all this in what had been one of Latin America’s four most economically successful countries since before the Batista dictatorship."
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6997|California

RichyCizzo wrote:

So I guess I'm the only one who thought you were talking about Ernest, from the movies like "Ernest goes to Jail", and not Che.
No, that's Ernrest, missing the O. Hey Vernon.... lol.

Che is just another icon for little non-conformist hate my parents silver spooned white kids who are mad at the world because they get beat up, get no poontang, and everyone makes fun of them.

White kids who like Che are on par with Emo kids. Both should be shot.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6817
Ernesto Guevara de la Serna 'Che' is an icon, ideologue and a martyr. He was the modern equivalent of Simon Bolivar. The man was selfless and fought for what he believed was right: levelling the playing field between the oppressed and the oppressor, the rich and the poor, the haves and the have nots throughout Latin America. He dreamed of a Latin America free from the rampant exploitation of the region by foreign powers perpetuating the gigantic gulf between rich and poor there - the gulf having originally been created and maintained by the Spanish empire before the reins were handed over to the USA. One need only look at Macchu Picchu to see what heights the original civilisation there achieved and then look at the poor barrios of any/all Latin American capitals, cities and towns to see what has become of them. Having visited Latin America a few times I was kind of shocked to find third world shanty towns blocks away from gleaming skyscrapers belonging to international banks and corporations.

To free Latin America he was required to adopt the 'if you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs' approach - effecting change on such a monumental level is not going to be easy after all, especially when the odds are stacked so highly against you. This necessary aspect of his approach to his struggle is what earns him the most criticism, rightly or wrongly. He was a strict disciplinarian and was ruthless and unyielding when it came to anything that got in the way of him achieving his goal: a Latin America run by the ordinary men and women of Latin America and a fairer distribution of wealth amongst said people. He made mistakes from time to time, as do we all, as have the US for instance at Guantanamo Bay.

Guerilla warfare, the approach taken by Guevara and his cohorts, is the natural and most intelligent way of fighting a conventional army when they have superiority of equipment and numbers. I cannot criticise him for that. I don't regard guerrilla warfare as terrorism unless it is specifically targetting civilians. I admire Guevara for his military exploits in this brand of warfare because let's face it: Guevara wrote the handbook!! He was a master of the craft. Guevara defeated the forces of Batista starting off with an initial band of guerrilla soldiers of 15-20 after the inital battle where the Granma landed. That's impressive.
 
This man put his life on the line for the principles in which he believed in Cuba, Bolivia and the Congo. Although I myself am a capitalist and certain aspects of Che's life rightly deserve criticism I for one admire the man greatly for his military brilliance, the righteousness of many elements of his cause, his charisma and his selflessness.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Ergstrasbatallasc.jpg

Viva la revolucion!

PS I hate people wearing Che t-shirts. It's so sheep-tastic.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-04 08:41:37)

paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|7002
Most "freedom fighters" are on that side that win.

Most "terrorists" are on the side that lost.

Last edited by paranoid101 (2006-08-04 09:15:59)

EVieira
Member
+105|6740|Lutenblaag, Molvania

CameronPoe wrote:

This man put his life on the line for the principles in which he believed in
That alone would be enough for me to respect him, there are few people today that are so true to their beliefs and so willing to fight for them. And unfortunately many of those that do exist today are extremists...

Ikarti, you started this topic so I would like to hear your arguments to calling Che a murderer. And also why overrated, for as CP mentioned he beat Batista being severely out manned and out gunned.

EDIT: And on a side note, I would like to remember that the US used Napalm against troops in the Bay of Pigs invasion, burning alive thousands of soldiers. How can you compared Che to that?

Last edited by EVieira (2006-08-04 09:45:52)

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
-=CB=-krazykarl
not always PWD, but usually.
+95|6798|Carlsbad, CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

To free Latin America
LOL latin america free,.......hahahahahahaha what fantasy world do you live in? latin america is one of the most repressed, and poor areas in the world.
anyway "che" was a street level thug/gangbanger who had enough charisma to gain enough street thugs to attack a corrupt government, to replace it with another.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6817

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

To free Latin America
LOL latin america free,.......hahahahahahaha what fantasy world do you live in? latin america is one of the most repressed, and poor areas in the world.
anyway "che" was a street level thug/gangbanger who had enough charisma to gain enough street thugs to attack a corrupt government, to replace it with another.
I'm well aware Latin America is far from free. Hopefully Ignacio Lula da Silva, Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez can do something about that.
Jinto-sk
Laid Back Yorkshireman
+183|6853|Scarborough Yorkshire England

buttersIRL wrote:

the photographer who owned that image of Che decided to not charge for it being used. 

That's probably why its one of the most used images in the world because T-shrt manufacturers do not have to pay anyone to use the image thus lower costs and more profit for them,
bit of a weird situation really,   selling a communist image for capitalist reasons. !
It IS the most used picture in the world for posters and T-shirts
(apart from that picture of the tennis player scratching her butt  J/K)
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6997|California

CameronPoe wrote:

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

To free Latin America
LOL latin america free,.......hahahahahahaha what fantasy world do you live in? latin america is one of the most repressed, and poor areas in the world.
anyway "che" was a street level thug/gangbanger who had enough charisma to gain enough street thugs to attack a corrupt government, to replace it with another.
I'm well aware Latin America is far from free. Hopefully Ignacio Lula da Silva, Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez can do something about that.
***Hugo Chavez eh?

With respect to domestic policies, critics report that both corruption and crime are rampant. They also cite a failing infrastructure and public hospitals. Criticism from Chávez supporters arises from reports that Chávez is not fulfilling his major campaign pledges with respect to labor and land reform.

Critics have also charged that the Chávez government has engaged in "gigantic fraud" during the 2004 recall referendum. Human rights organizations Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have documented numerous human rights violations in Venezuela.

Taken from Wiki, more is available for reading.

Chavez is almost American politics wise.

***Evo Morales??? he's a fekkin coke dealer.

Morales is the leader of Bolivia's cocalero movement – a loose federation of coca leaf-growing campesinos who are resisting the efforts of the United States government to eradicate coca in the province of Chapare in southeastern Bolivia. <== I get what he is trying to do, but it ain't gonna work.

Morales is also leader of the Movement for Socialism political party <== Now I know why you like him.

He does get style points, he dresses like a common man, very cool.

***Inacio Lula da Silva

We might actually agree on this guy.

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