Okay, I'm not the guy's lawyer, so this is the last I have to say about him and your as yet unfounded accusations of English-hating, but no, that quote does not make your point in any way. Find a quote where he's talking about how he feels about English people (not the British Empire) and I might change my mind.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
In that context i would surely hesitate to claim i handed someone their ass. And its safe to assume imo that from camerons posts that he harbors ill feelings towards the English. In this very thread he claimsEaster sunday crap in his sig bragging about beating the English ..hes not really secretive about itCameronPoe wrote:
It must suck to have large swathes of people all across the world hate you.
The us is hardly the worlds only superpower, what about japan, uk? i would say anyone with alot o nukes is a super power.horny_trojan wrote:
because if we didn't do anything the world would cry " oh noes, US isnt doing anthing! The bastards hate sunshine and puppies! They can try to stop it but why wont they!" Because the US is the world's sole superpower (china isn't there, yet), the rest of the world will always pay attention to its stance on pretty much every thing. Its a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation.
I know nothing about the history between the English and the Irish, but I will say this discussion is very interesting reading. As a person who is completely ignorant as to the facts of all of this, I can say with an unbiased observation, I am leaning toward believing those that argue against Irland winning their freedom by besting England. And no, this post is not intended to be hostile toward Cameronpoe, I am only going on what I have read. I just find this topic interesting.
Sorry, forgot about this part...
This being a reference to CameronPoe's claims, it struck me that the diction didn't match the speaker, and that he might have been piggybacking. So I read back through the thread to a little before those comments, and lo and behold...ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
In that context i would surely hesitate to claim i handed someone their ass.
I suspect many Americans would be inclined to agree with that assessment...ATG wrote:
Britian was a world superpower and they got there arses handed to them twice here by the states with a fraction of the population.
How can this be? Ok Everyone Screamed for the US to get a Ceasefire going, THEN i hear from A Political Analyst IN Lebanon saying that the US should Keep there nose out of EVERYTHING. WTF do they want? They Piss and moan that the US Is doing nothing, THEN they say STFU USA when we do do something.
WTF, Its just another reason for Lebanon, Syria, and Iran to Keep things going between themselves And the USA. There Just not happy unless they have something to protest every day there. It would mess up everyones schedules.
WTF, Its just another reason for Lebanon, Syria, and Iran to Keep things going between themselves And the USA. There Just not happy unless they have something to protest every day there. It would mess up everyones schedules.
Just think yourslef lucky we dont want irland back or we'd be in there to kick your ass into the sea.CameronPoe wrote:
Are 26 of our counties independent or aren't they? They are. Did we not kill hundreds of B Specials, Auxiliaries, British Army personnel and Black & Tans? We did. Did we not continue the struggle in the north through both political and violent means? We did. This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Irelands freedom was givin to them not earned through war. No secret they lanuched thier guerilla attacks on the cusp of WW1 knowing England would be unwilling to launch a large scale war against them simply to retain Ireland *which served little gain*. A grand total of not less than 500 IRA soldiers died in their independance.. pretty obvious it was no large conflict. If indeed in your fictional world that Ireland "handed thier asses to them" then North Ireland wouldnt exist.CameronPoe wrote:
Even the 'potato-munching alcoholic leprechaun fenian bastard paddies' of Ireland handed them their asses. The empire is dead - live with it.
It's kind of humiliating for Britain that a nation so small right beside them drove them out. Mohatma Ghandi often looked to the Irish example in hope for a free India - the Irish having been the first to prove that the Brits could indeed be ousted.
How so? For defending his viewpoint?vedds wrote:
That killed the last vestage of any respect i had for you. It also says a lot about you.CameronPoe wrote:
Are 26 of our counties independent or aren't they? They are. Did we not kill hundreds of B Specials, Auxiliaries, British Army personnel and Black & Tans? We did. Did we not continue the struggle in the north through both political and violent means? We did. This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.
It's kind of humiliating for Britain that a nation so small right beside them drove them out. Mohatma Ghandi often looked to the Irish example in hope for a free India - the Irish having been the first to prove that the Brits could indeed be ousted.
Do you just like all the people who disagree with you to lie down and whimper, so you can laugh and ridicule them?
In that case, 'respect' from you means a very different thing to 'respect' from the rest of us.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Not at all, If anything it was the way the man stood to his guns that made me respect him in the first place. While i frequently disagree with camerons posts, he is often a voice of reason on his side of the ideological spectrum.Spark wrote:
How so? For defending his viewpoint?
I think its beneath you to put words in my mouth Spark, where have I suggested anybody who disagrees with me should lie down and whimper? I certainly havent attempted any ridicule.Spark wrote:
Do you just like all the people who disagree with you to lie down and whimper, so you can laugh and ridicule them?
How about i go back a bit and explain myself as perhaps I should have in the first place:Spark wrote:
In that case, 'respect' from you means a very different thing to 'respect' from the rest of us.
Its this passage in particular that I find repugnant.
The rejoicing in the deaths of many; Servicemen & Civilians who happened to be in the wrong place when PIRA were "struggling"(I dont want to get into a debate on the rights and wrongs at this juncture) - "continuing the struggle in the north" means bombing civilians as well as targeting military and intellegence personnel. the threat of further "war" is abhorrent when there is a workable peace.CameronPoe wrote:
Did we not kill hundreds of B Specials, Auxiliaries, British Army personnel and Black & Tans? We did. Did we not continue the struggle in the north through both political and violent means? We did. This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.
So Spark if thats worthy of respect in your eyes thats fine, but I'm happy to say that it disgusts me. Alternatively if you misunderstood the point I was making because of a lack of clarity on my part, I hope this irons that out.
I was also unaware that Margaret Thatcher was such a cunt that she, as he so eloquently put it, deserved to be blown into pieces. I'm curious what cruel wrong has shes done to the Irish to earn a nitroglycerin salad ?
Now for a response. I've just woken up. I'm not replying to everyone individually.
1. I live in the Republic of Ireland - we swear no oath of allegiance to anyone but our nation. We have a president as head of state. We are not a dominion of the British, nor are we members of the commonwealth. People who wish to make arguments about countries they know little about should really want to know there stuff if they wish to go head-to-head with someone from that country.
2. I do not hate English people. Take this analogy - are you Brits not proud of your impressive victory over the Germans in the Battle of Britain? Of course you are and rightly so. Do you detest all German people today? Thought not.
3. I'm sure many people within England will concur with the fact that Margaret Thatcher was a total bitch. Miners anyone? She also saw fit to have 10 people starve themselves to death in the Maze prison without lifting a finger. Several weeks after their deaths she gave in to their demands.
4. Only an idiot will face a conventional army in open battle when they have inferior equipment and numbers. I guess the US military strategists were thinking along the lines of some of the idiotic posters on this forum when they thought Iraq was going to be a breeze.
PS I DO NOT CONDONE THE KILLING OF CIVILIANS - BRITISH, IRAQI, US OR OTHERWISE.
1. I live in the Republic of Ireland - we swear no oath of allegiance to anyone but our nation. We have a president as head of state. We are not a dominion of the British, nor are we members of the commonwealth. People who wish to make arguments about countries they know little about should really want to know there stuff if they wish to go head-to-head with someone from that country.
2. I do not hate English people. Take this analogy - are you Brits not proud of your impressive victory over the Germans in the Battle of Britain? Of course you are and rightly so. Do you detest all German people today? Thought not.
3. I'm sure many people within England will concur with the fact that Margaret Thatcher was a total bitch. Miners anyone? She also saw fit to have 10 people starve themselves to death in the Maze prison without lifting a finger. Several weeks after their deaths she gave in to their demands.
4. Only an idiot will face a conventional army in open battle when they have inferior equipment and numbers. I guess the US military strategists were thinking along the lines of some of the idiotic posters on this forum when they thought Iraq was going to be a breeze.
PS I DO NOT CONDONE THE KILLING OF CIVILIANS - BRITISH, IRAQI, US OR OTHERWISE.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-07 05:46:54)
Cheers for that.LostFate wrote:
Just think yourslef lucky we dont want irland back or we'd be in there to kick your ass into the sea.CameronPoe wrote:
Are 26 of our counties independent or aren't they? They are. Did we not kill hundreds of B Specials, Auxiliaries, British Army personnel and Black & Tans? We did. Did we not continue the struggle in the north through both political and violent means? We did. This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Irelands freedom was givin to them not earned through war. No secret they lanuched thier guerilla attacks on the cusp of WW1 knowing England would be unwilling to launch a large scale war against them simply to retain Ireland *which served little gain*. A grand total of not less than 500 IRA soldiers died in their independance.. pretty obvious it was no large conflict. If indeed in your fictional world that Ireland "handed thier asses to them" then North Ireland wouldnt exist.
It's kind of humiliating for Britain that a nation so small right beside them drove them out. Mohatma Ghandi often looked to the Irish example in hope for a free India - the Irish having been the first to prove that the Brits could indeed be ousted.
Vedds - I don't think you'll find any references to civilian deaths in my rant. All political or military targets - look them up. You are also confusing the 1916-1922 era Ireland with the 1970s-1990s era Northern Ireland. They were two very different IRA's. The modern provisionals are mostly a bunch of criminals hogging an ideology they are not fit to associate themselves with.vedds wrote:
How about i go back a bit and explain myself as perhaps I should have in the first place:
Its this passage in particular that I find repugnant.The rejoicing in the deaths of many; Servicemen & Civilians who happened to be in the wrong place when PIRA were "struggling"(I dont want to get into a debate on the rights and wrongs at this juncture) - "continuing the struggle in the north" means bombing civilians as well as targeting military and intellegence personnel. the threat of further "war" is abhorrent when there is a workable peace.CameronPoe wrote:
Did we not kill hundreds of B Specials, Auxiliaries, British Army personnel and Black & Tans? We did. Did we not continue the struggle in the north through both political and violent means? We did. This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-07 06:03:33)
1. Then what great success are you celebrating in "handing their asses to them"? I can only assume since the IRA lost the civil war that its the Anglo-Irish treaty given to the Irish not by Military defeat but in conciliation by the English. And in that case its irrelevant and not my point that these provisions are in act today but that the fact they existed at all are proof that this isn't some great Irish military victory of ass handing but philanthropy on the part of the Brits.CameronPoe wrote:
Now for a response. I've just woken up. I'm not replying to everyone individually.
1. I live in the Republic of Ireland - we swear no oath of allegiance to anyone but our nation. We have a president as head of state. We are not a dominion of the British, nor are we members of the commonwealth. People who wish to make arguments about countries they know little about should really want to know there stuff if they wish to go head-to-head with someone from that country.
2. I do not hate English people. Take this analogy - are you Brits not proud of your impressive victory over the Germans in the Battle of Britain? Of course you are and rightly so. Do you detest all German people today? Thought not.
3. I'm sure many people within England will concur with the fact that Margaret Thatcher was a total bitch. Miners anyone? She also saw fit to have 10 people starve themselves to death in the Maze prison without lifting a finger. Several weeks after their deaths she gave in to their demands.
4. Only an idiot will face a conventional army in open battle when they have inferior equipment and numbers. I guess the US military strategists were thinking along the lines of some of the idiotic posters on this forum when they thought Iraq was going to be a breeze.
PS I DO NOT CONDONE THE KILLING OF CIVILIANS - BRITISH, IRAQI, US OR OTHERWISE.
2.The Brits can be proud of their hand in defeating the Germans for their large scale involvement and thousands of dead soldiers sacrificed in that cause. You'll be hard pressed to find a coinciding circumstance in Irish history.
3. You've convinced me, Mrs Thatcher certainly deserved to have he subordinates picking her flesh out of the carpet /sarcasm
4. I question the person who finds military victory and boasting in a situation where they fear and hide in cowardice of the enemy then claim ass handing. And as far as military conflict goes Americas managing the defeat of Iraq's military and Republican guard in 3 months *4th largest military in the world* is accurately described as a "breeze"
Yea and the act in reference to Thatcher in which you obviously support occurred in 1984 by those "criminals" you don't support ? ok..CameronPoe wrote:
You are also confusing the 1916-1922 era Ireland with the 1970s-1990s era Northern Ireland. They were two very different IRA's. The modern provisionals are mostly a bunch of criminals hogging an ideology they are not fit to associate themselves with.
Last edited by ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ (2006-08-07 07:15:50)
I think you lost in 1812 - When the US tried to invade Canada and the British repelled the attack. The American invasion achieved none of it's goals, which means you LOST.ATG wrote:
Colonies? 1776 Britian FAILBertster7 wrote:
Which states were these? I must have missed that.ATG wrote:
Britian was a world superpower and they got there arses handed to them twice here by the states with a fraction of the population.
I thought Britain lost all their money doing the bulk of the fighting throughout two world wars, which America stayed mostly out of. Until, of course, they got bombed themselves and realised that the outcome of the war in the rest of the world would effect them, since the Axis powers were by that point too powerful for the US to take on alone - which is why the alliance with Stalin was suggested by Eisenhower.
States? 1812 Britian FAIL
And thats the United States to you.
Except the goal in the 1812 war was the preservation of soverignty in America not the annexation of Canada.
I seriously doubt the pacific civil-disobedient Ghandi "often" looked to the Irish example...CameronPoe wrote:
Mohatma Ghandi often looked to the Irish example in hope for a free India - the Irish having been the first to prove that the Brits could indeed be ousted.
Last edited by EVieira (2006-08-07 07:28:12)
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Read up on it. He did. Not because of the means but because of the fact that it proved it could be done.EVieira wrote:
I seriously doubt the pacific civil-disobedient Ghandi "often" looked to the Irish example...CameronPoe wrote:
Mohatma Ghandi often looked to the Irish example in hope for a free India - the Irish having been the first to prove that the Brits could indeed be ousted.
It's all a question of scale. Ireland - tiny. Germany - massive. Did we win? Yes. It took 800 or so years (1949 was the exact year of final victory). You seem to gloss over the numerous rebellions preceeding 1916 or the civil war.arabic word wrote:
The Brits can be proud of their hand in defeating the Germans for their large scale involvement and thousands of dead soldiers sacrificed in that cause. You'll be hard pressed to find a coinciding circumstance in Irish history.
Oh right - I remember the 'victory' celebration on board that aircraft carrier. That was some victory. You guys must be glad to have gotten back home so soon after all those hostilities. LOL.arabic word wrote:
I question the person who finds military victory and boasting in a situation where they fear and hide in cowardice of the enemy then claim ass handing. And as far as military conflict goes Americas managing the defeat of Iraq's military and Republican guard in 3 months *4th largest military in the world* is accurately described as a "breeze"
Hey - I supported the cause to which they purported to represent. Legitimate military targets were OK by me. Doesn't mean I support them because I abhorr other acts of theirs.arabic word wrote:
Yea and the act in reference to Thatcher in which you obviously support occurred in 1984 by those "criminals" you don't support ? ok..CameronPoe wrote:
You are also confusing the 1916-1922 era Ireland with the 1970s-1990s era Northern Ireland. They were two very different IRA's. The modern provisionals are mostly a bunch of criminals hogging an ideology they are not fit to associate themselves with.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-07 07:50:49)
CameronPoe wrote:
This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.
So you consider leader assassinations to be legitimate targets? Like the bombing that so nearly killed "the queen bitch Thatcher" to be a legitimate military target?CameronPoe wrote:
Hey - I supported the cause to which they purported to represent. Legitimate military targets were OK by me. Doesn't mean I support them because I abhorr other acts of theirs.
If you support them only for their cause and military targets, then you are ignoring their other attacks that abhor you. Ignorance is bliss...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Vieira - I find it odd that you can't empathise with how people feel about the occupation of their country -especially given that Brazil was under the control of the Portuguese empire. Maybe you're of pure Portuguese lineage, I don't know.EVieira wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
This war of independence ain't over yet buddy. The Provisional IRA were actually microscopically close to nailing the queen bitch herself, Margaret Thatcher, at the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. She left the room 10 seconds before the bomb went off.So you consider leader assassinations to be legitimate targets? Like the bombing that so nearly killed "the queen bitch Thatcher" to be a legitimate military target?CameronPoe wrote:
Hey - I supported the cause to which they purported to represent. Legitimate military targets were OK by me. Doesn't mean I support them because I abhorr other acts of theirs.
If you support them only for their cause and military targets, then you are ignoring their other attacks that abhor you. Ignorance is bliss...
PS That was then and this is now. There is a peace process in place at the moment to which all sides of the divide are party (except for the intransigent fuckers of the DUP).
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-07 08:22:06)
Laughing out loud indeed. Deating the Iraqi army the one that fought Iran for 8 years and the most dominant force in the middle east and 4th largest in the world armed with the latest Russian weapons was demolished in 3 months. One if not the most lopsided military victories in the history of warfare. Rest assured 90% if not more of the soldiers that participated in OIF1 are home resting and mostly National guardsmen acting as military police have to deal with the insurgent wussbags.CameronPoe wrote:
Oh right - I remember the 'victory' celebration on board that aircraft carrier. That was some victory. You guys must be glad to have gotten back home so soon after all those hostilities. LOL.
no he abhors the actions of the modern provisional IRA unless he considers their targets cuntsEvieira wrote:
If you support them only for their cause and military targets, then you are ignoring their other attacks that abhor you. Ignorance is bliss...
Last edited by ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ (2006-08-07 08:29:14)
I beg to differ.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Except the goal in the 1812 war was the preservation of soverignty in America not the annexation of Canada.
The British had already stopped the sovereignty violations before the war began. The US invasion of Canada was repelled and after Napoleon was defeated and the Navy freed up the Americans were in a REAL mess. But the British couln't really be bothered, so they just burnt down the American capital and pissed off home.Wikipedia wrote:
The War of 1812 (in Britain, the American War of 1812 to 1815), was fought between the United States and the British Empire from 1812 to 1815, on land in North America and at sea. The United States, which declared war and attacked British colonies and shipping first, ended the war without gaining any territory, its invasion of British North America having been defeated by British, Canadian and aboriginal forces; however, the British ceased the sovereignty violations, to which the United States had objected, two days prior to the start of the war.
The Americans were a bit pissed off after the treaty of Ghent because the British did not return the slaves they had liberated since they were not considered property in Britain, whereas in the US they were.
Cameron, one's right to choose his own leaders and govern his country something I will never downplay. But I will never sympathise or support a group because its cause is right, if it uses terrorist tactics even if only in part. I can imagine what the innocent victims of such acts feel, and to me they are unthinkable. Their cause might be just, but the end does not justify the means.CameronPoe wrote:
Vieira - I find it odd that you can't empathise with how people feel about the occupation of their country -especially given that Brazil was under the control of the Portuguese empire. Maybe you're of pure Portuguese lineage, I don't know.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
The conventional Iraqi army were a bunch of pansies. They were worse than the fucking French FFS. They couldn't wait to dump their tanks and run into the arms of the waiting US soldiers. If you're gonna big-up your military choose a different conflict please. The insurgents you are now dealing with are the real thing. You won't see many of them waving the white flag. Conventional warfare is dead my friend. US military intelligence needs to get with the program.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Laughing out loud indeed. Deating the Iraqi army the one that fought Iran for 8 years and the most dominant force in the middle east and 4th largest in the world armed with the latest Russian weapons was demolished in 3 months. One if not the most lopsided military victories in the history of warfare. Rest assured 90% if not more of the soldiers that participated in OIF1 are home resting and mostly National guardsmen acting as military police have to deal with the insurgent wussbags.CameronPoe wrote:
Oh right - I remember the 'victory' celebration on board that aircraft carrier. That was some victory. You guys must be glad to have gotten back home so soon after all those hostilities. LOL.
Of course political assassinations are legitimate.EVieira wrote:
So you consider leader assassinations to be legitimate targets? Like the bombing that so nearly killed "the queen bitch Thatcher" to be a legitimate military target?
If you support them only for their cause and military targets, then you are ignoring their other attacks that abhor you. Ignorance is bliss...
Thatcher was a totally legitimate target.
It's civilians who aren't, people who haven't 'signed up' to be targets.