So why dont we blame them and not Israel for the problems in the ME. I understand Americans look at the region as one entity when in reality there are various players who think and do differently. My point is that those two powers need to be held accountable for what goes on in the region. But they cant because of archaic ways of thinking. So in conclusion, the West is the best!CameronPoe wrote:
Problem is that there's a centuries old internal power struggle between sunni and shia influence in the region - hence the reason they don't bother helping each other out and sometimes even actually fuck each other over. Iran v Saudi Arabia for influence are the two main powers trying to win out.rawls2 wrote:
Its great to live in a country were we are free to do what we want with our cash.CameronPoe wrote:
No it's mainly because the country has very powerful and very rich Jewish lobby groups who can make or break aspiring politicians, especially given Jewish media-outlet ownership. The actual population of Jews in the USA is less than 2%. The lobby groups seems to have been building in influence for decades and now actually completely call the shots when it comes to US foreign policy. I mean confidential US defense policies were being passed on to Israeli government officials for Christ's sake.
PS Israel get $2.5bn annually from the US (approximately) - more than any other nation (and only 6m people live in Israel!!!)
Why doesn't Saudi or Iran give more to there neighbors like Lebanon and all those hurting ME countries. Would they not benefit from pulling some of those countries out of the shit hole. Maybe then the general population can become educated and pick up a book and not a gun.
You're right, I can't prove it. But there are some people that are more tuned in to the Middle East than you or I that think it's so.jonsimon wrote:
You can't prove Iran is controlling hezbollah through Syria.
Besides, would erasing Israel from the map be such a bad thing? So long as the people living in Israel remain in Israel without harm and remain as free I don't see any problems with disbanding the Israeli government.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny- … -headlines
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ww3/sy … ppings.htm
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ww3/sy … ppings.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0608/S00039.htm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5597591
AS for your second statement, I'm not sure I really even need to respond, as it's completely absurd.
Saudi Arabia just gave upwards of $1.5billion in aid to Lebanon, to help stabilize the economy and the Lebanese currency. Admittedly, they have not revealed whether this is a loan or just a goodwill gesture.rawls2 wrote:
Why doesn't Saudi or Iran give more to there neighbors like Lebanon and all those hurting ME countries. Would they not benefit from pulling some of those countries out of the shit hole. Maybe then the general population can become educated and pick up a book and not a gun.
The funny thing is that the money gets deposited in the state bank. Guess who has access to that state bank? Could it be Hezbollah? I think so. So in reality all that money gets used for guns and ammo to be used against Israel. I guess thats fair since we sell weapons to Israel. But then Lebonan shouldn't complain when Israel puts those weapons to use because Hezbollah is.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Saudi Arabia just gave upwards of $1.5billion in aid to Lebanon, to help stabilize the economy and the Lebanese currency. Admittedly, they have not revealed whether this is a loan or just a goodwill gesture.rawls2 wrote:
Why doesn't Saudi or Iran give more to there neighbors like Lebanon and all those hurting ME countries. Would they not benefit from pulling some of those countries out of the shit hole. Maybe then the general population can become educated and pick up a book and not a gun.
I am opposed to the Iraq war but hey, at least those are our boys over there. Thats our money being spent on our interests, i may not agree with them but it's still money in the 'family'.Chuckles wrote:
Are you opposed to the Iraq war?PRiMACORD wrote:
quote]
Us giving Israel money is directly intfering with power in that region. That is what i am against. I very much doubt Israel would be wiped out if US funds stopped, they are a very technologically competent people so yes, i'm all for letting them go at it on there own.
All those civilians getting limbed to shit in Lebanon don't make me feel to great about where my tax money is going.
We spend $250,000,000 a day in Iraq, or about 10 days worth of Israel's foreign aid, and there have been tens of thousands more civilians killed there than have been killed in Lebanon. And Lebanon (Hezbollah) started the fight with Israel. Last I checked Iraq never kidnapped any of our soldiers or launched any rockets into our country.
Hezbollah firing useless rockets into Israel has nothing to do with me or my country.
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that Iran and Saudi Arabia should give more to their neighbors. But, when presented with evidence of this, you claim that is damning evidence of Saudi Arabia. Basically, you can't make up your mind and waste your time contradicting yourself.rawls2 wrote:
The funny thing is that the money gets deposited in the state bank. Guess who has access to that state bank? Could it be Hezbollah? I think so. So in reality all that money gets used for guns and ammo to be used against Israel. I guess thats fair since we sell weapons to Israel. But then Lebonan shouldn't complain when Israel puts those weapons to use because Hezbollah is.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Saudi Arabia just gave upwards of $1.5billion in aid to Lebanon, to help stabilize the economy and the Lebanese currency. Admittedly, they have not revealed whether this is a loan or just a goodwill gesture.rawls2 wrote:
Why doesn't Saudi or Iran give more to there neighbors like Lebanon and all those hurting ME countries. Would they not benefit from pulling some of those countries out of the shit hole. Maybe then the general population can become educated and pick up a book and not a gun.
My point, which i dont feel im contradicting myself, is that Jennings said monies donated to Lebonan are bieng used to stabilize the country. That is pure BS because Hezbollah has access to that money and they aren't using it to stabilize the country but rather to fund the war against Israel.jonsimon wrote:
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that Iran and Saudi Arabia should give more to their neighbors. But, when presented with evidence of this, you claim that is damning evidence of Saudi Arabia. Basically, you can't make up your mind and waste your time contradicting yourself.rawls2 wrote:
The funny thing is that the money gets deposited in the state bank. Guess who has access to that state bank? Could it be Hezbollah? I think so. So in reality all that money gets used for guns and ammo to be used against Israel. I guess thats fair since we sell weapons to Israel. But then Lebonan shouldn't complain when Israel puts those weapons to use because Hezbollah is.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Saudi Arabia just gave upwards of $1.5billion in aid to Lebanon, to help stabilize the economy and the Lebanese currency. Admittedly, they have not revealed whether this is a loan or just a goodwill gesture.
I thought you might be interested in this.jonsimon wrote:
Prove 67,000,000 people around Israel want to see all Israelis killed. I suggest you take a poll, or ask each individually. Perhaps video recordings as evidence?Chuckles wrote:
Israel is a island of 6,700,000 surrounded by over 10 times that amount that want to see it wiped off the face of the planet.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746081.html
Ahmadinejad is 67,000,000 people?
Yes, becuase Hezbollah can just walk into a Lebanese bank and demand as much money as they want, and the government gives it to them! For Fucks sake, man, Lebanon does not equal hezbollah. They do not share bank accounts. I know you are virulently anti-Hezbollah, but don't confuse the two. That is like saying that Al-Qaeda can waltz into any US bank and demand money, simply because they are active here.rawls2 wrote:
My point, which i dont feel im contradicting myself, is that Jennings said monies donated to Lebonan are bieng used to stabilize the country. That is pure BS because Hezbollah has access to that money and they aren't using it to stabilize the country but rather to fund the war against Israel.jonsimon wrote:
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that Iran and Saudi Arabia should give more to their neighbors. But, when presented with evidence of this, you claim that is damning evidence of Saudi Arabia. Basically, you can't make up your mind and waste your time contradicting yourself.rawls2 wrote:
The funny thing is that the money gets deposited in the state bank. Guess who has access to that state bank? Could it be Hezbollah? I think so. So in reality all that money gets used for guns and ammo to be used against Israel. I guess thats fair since we sell weapons to Israel. But then Lebonan shouldn't complain when Israel puts those weapons to use because Hezbollah is.
So no, that is not pure BS. Try again, Rawls. This time with maybe some intelligence/thought, instead of something you make up that goes along with the way you think.
Its not a simple thing like walking into the bank and demanding money. Its about transfering from one account to another. As for your analogy about Al-Queda, please, Al-Queda has seats in congress or do they have representatives in our government? No they dont. Im a realist. You guys live in lala land.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Yes, becuase Hezbollah can just walk into a Lebanese bank and demand as much money as they want, and the government gives it to them! For Fucks sake, man, Lebanon does not equal hezbollah. They do not share bank accounts. I know you are virulently anti-Hezbollah, but don't confuse the two. That is like saying that Al-Qaeda can waltz into any US bank and demand money, simply because they are active here.rawls2 wrote:
My point, which i dont feel im contradicting myself, is that Jennings said monies donated to Lebonan are bieng used to stabilize the country. That is pure BS because Hezbollah has access to that money and they aren't using it to stabilize the country but rather to fund the war against Israel.jonsimon wrote:
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that Iran and Saudi Arabia should give more to their neighbors. But, when presented with evidence of this, you claim that is damning evidence of Saudi Arabia. Basically, you can't make up your mind and waste your time contradicting yourself.
So no, that is not pure BS. Try again, Rawls. This time with maybe some intelligence/thought, instead of something you make up that goes along with the way you think.
Last edited by rawls2 (2006-08-03 13:34:36)
I admit, it was a piss-poor comparison. However, under your logic, the Lebanese government could transfer that money to anyone. How is it that I live in lala land when here is your logic-rawls2 wrote:
.
Its not a simple thing like walking into the bank and demanding money. Its about transfering from one account to another. As for your analogy about Al-Queda, please, Al-Queda has seats in congress or do they have representatives in our government? No they dont. Im a realist. You guys live in lala land.
Saudi Arabia should give money to help Lebanon and other ME countries
Oh, Saudi Arabia did give an enormous amount of money?
Well, that money is as good as Hezbollahs.
I don't know why I even bother when you just dismiss each argument with your own made up reasons. Honestly, I cannot recall any time you have used concrete evidence or fact to back up your claims. It seems that all you do is just convince yourself how it is, and go with it. You obviously have it made up in your mind that Lebanon controls Hezbollah or the other way around, when that is clearly not the case. I ask you for the one-millionth time, use facts and/or evidence to back up your claims or they are without merit. I have no problem debating with people that are reasonable and somewhat logical, which you are not. I am sure there are many things we disagree on for our own personal reasons, and I am quite sure my outlook on the world is markedly different from yours. So why do you hate Arabs/Muslims?
Perhaps as absurd as forming a new Black state out of Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Alabama?Chuckles wrote:
You're right, I can't prove it. But there are some people that are more tuned in to the Middle East than you or I that think it's so.jonsimon wrote:
You can't prove Iran is controlling hezbollah through Syria.
Besides, would erasing Israel from the map be such a bad thing? So long as the people living in Israel remain in Israel without harm and remain as free I don't see any problems with disbanding the Israeli government.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny- … -headlines
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ww3/sy … ppings.htm
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ww3/sy … ppings.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0608/S00039.htm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5597591
AS for your second statement, I'm not sure I really even need to respond, as it's completely absurd.
Removing Israel is no more absurd than creating Israel. It is a racist state created in the homeland of those whom the state is prejudiced against. I think it is in the Middle East's best interest to remove the state of Israel and form a new state in compromise between the ousted Palestinians and the Israeli citizens.
Lol +1Ikarti wrote:
Ahmadinejad is 67,000,000 people?
Ahmadinejadman to the rescue! With the hatred of 67,000,000 men!
Last edited by jonsimon (2006-08-03 14:08:23)
Israel are our allies
and the jewish community in a whole. they would not be there if it wasnt for are help. so much hate boils in the mid east toward the jew.
although i think we should up are aid to very poor countries like sudan etc. it's just sad what is going on there
800,000 people where killed in a few short years in the region in the mid 90's
while we at home watched the OJ simpson trial..
and the jewish community in a whole. they would not be there if it wasnt for are help. so much hate boils in the mid east toward the jew.
although i think we should up are aid to very poor countries like sudan etc. it's just sad what is going on there
800,000 people where killed in a few short years in the region in the mid 90's
while we at home watched the OJ simpson trial..
I think it's more like there's a little but of Ahmadinejad in all of us. Something deep like that.jonsimon wrote:
Lol +1Ikarti wrote:
Ahmadinejad is 67,000,000 people?
Ahmadinejadman to the rescue! With the hatred of 67,000,000 men!
The US helped the Jews in WW2 after it was in our (U.S. government's) best interest. Why did we sit around and play dumb until after millions of Jews were executed? Why did the scions of business in the U.S. actively supply and support the German government?beerface702 wrote:
Israel are our allies
and the jewish community in a whole. they would not be there if it wasnt for are help. so much hate boils in the mid east toward the jew.
although i think we should up are aid to very poor countries like sudan etc. it's just sad what is going on there
800,000 people where killed in a few short years in the region in the mid 90's
while we at home watched the OJ simpson trial..
The bottom line is, the U.S. Government does not care about anyone except the people running the government. Sure, they have an interest in appeasing us, but that's it. They want to make us happy enough to keep going on, but make sure we still are able to be controlled. I agree with your sentiment about aid to "poor" countries such as Sudan. There are literally millions of people suffering all over the globe under countless dictatorships and corrupt governments. We are the United States, defenders of freedom and democracy, why don't we intervene in any of these places? I have a few reasons I believe to be the answer - 1) We do not have vested interests in those regions, and 2)We do have vested interests in those regions, and the corrupt government/dictator is U.S. Government/Interest friendly. Why is it that the reasons for the war in Iraq (after it became apparent there were no WMDs) were said to be "democracy", "liberty", and "freedom"? The United States does not give two shits about any of those ambiguous words anywhere in the world, including in the U.S. How is installing a puppet government in Iraq giving the citizens there "liberty" and/or "freedom"? No, its not for the citizens, its for the people who get rich off rebuilding war-torn countries. My bet is if Iraq truly had free elections, there would be some sort of Theocracy ruling the nation.
Sorry guys, I guess I'm a little jaded today.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-08-03 14:38:29)
How can anyone prove what goes on at the highest level of government? Can I prove Hezbollah dips into Lebanese money? No. Can you prove they don't? Probably not. I don't hate Arabs, Persians, or Muslims. I just hate their countries. Very different.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I admit, it was a piss-poor comparison. However, under your logic, the Lebanese government could transfer that money to anyone. How is it that I live in lala land when here is your logic-rawls2 wrote:
.
Its not a simple thing like walking into the bank and demanding money. Its about transferring from one account to another. As for your analogy about Al-Queda, please, Al-Queda has seats in congress or do they have representatives in our government? No they don't. I'm a realist. You guys live in lala land.
Saudi Arabia should give money to help Lebanon and other ME countries
Oh, Saudi Arabia did give an enormous amount of money?
Well, that money is as good as Hezbollahs.
I don't know why I even bother when you just dismiss each argument with your own made up reasons. Honestly, I cannot recall any time you have used concrete evidence or fact to back up your claims. It seems that all you do is just convince yourself how it is, and go with it. You obviously have it made up in your mind that Lebanon controls Hezbollah or the other way around, when that is clearly not the case. I ask you for the one-millionth time, use facts and/or evidence to back up your claims or they are without merit. I have no problem debating with people that are reasonable and somewhat logical, which you are not. I am sure there are many things we disagree on for our own personal reasons, and I am quite sure my outlook on the world is markedly different from yours. So why do you hate Arabs/Muslims?