Pages: 1 2

 

2006-08-01 09:33:16
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6798
I'd like to open a thread discussing the issue of the media, those that control it, the dabblings of governments in the media and propaganda in general (any aspect of group psychology). I'd like it if any pschologists on the forum can shed light on why propaganda is so effective, how it is effective and what can we do to safeguard ourselves and others from it. Propaganda has driven many sane men to foolish and unjust wars over the years, even presently many would say. It's a core problem behind how 'the group' becomes galvanised into violent action or into supporting violent actions.

My knowledge of psychology is limited to three or four Sigmund Freud books so I'm no expert but I do have some small appreciation for the machinations of the human mind at their most basic level. I'l post my thoughts on propaganda, misinformation and subliminally forced changes to the group psyche later on.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-01 09:34:18)

2006-08-01 09:33:59
Buckles
Cheeky Keen
+329|6798|Kent, UK
it plays on peoples fears
2006-08-01 10:04:39
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6771|Global Command
People have a built in need to have an authority they can believe in.
They are more likely to sucumb to a mob mentality if persons in powerful posistions are stoking the fires. When Bush said " they are either with us, or with the terrorist, and Bring it on  " it aroused passions in people to reap vengance. He could have started lobbing nukes and people would have cheered, for a while.
     The internet is doing more to decrease the effectiveness of propaganda than anything in history. A simple Google search on any subject will arm anybody interested with a myriad of views.
2006-08-01 10:13:19
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7035
How do you safeguard people against propoganda?  It's actually quite simple, in theory - educate them never to trust a single source of information.

In this day and age, most people in the developed world have access to the internet.  They should be able to find more than one source for most things and to be able to check the facts as reported.  Of course, this is why China has restricted the use of the internet, so its citizens can only get their information from a government-approved source.

How do we educate people to do this?  Start with children - quite honestly, I think intelligence has skipped a generation (or several) and this simple concept would be lost on today's adults.  When I see how many people blindly believe what they read in the Daily Mail and similar newspapers, I despair.
2006-08-01 11:12:34
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6896
I'm no pschologist, but here's my 2 pence:

Unfortunately I think that counter-propaganda is often the chosen weapon of choice to counteract brainwashing, and in theory is morally no better since baseless claimis are being used to change opinion.

Education in research methods is an effective but expensive tool against it, but is often controlled by the same people who are spreading the propaganda, thus is an 'ideal world' solution.

I wish I could say 'simple facts' are the best way to counteract propaganda... unfortunately the weight of lies propaganda builds around them often mean that to convince someone of a fact you must go through a process of counterarguing an ever growing list falsehoods, each new one built upon the previous but adding weight to it through 'simple repetition'. 

A house constructed of lies can be taken apart brick by brick, but doing so while the builders are still on site is almost impossible, especially if they notice you and hit you over the head with a shovel.
2006-08-01 22:24:00
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6769|Portland, OR USA
the most effective propaganda uses fear and blame.  The absolute best uses both in tandem.

Create an injustice
Generate fear that the injustice will negatively impact you/yours
Spoon feed who the culprit is

We always need someone to blame.  Has to be that way.  Shit doesn't just "happen".  It's always someone's fault.  We need to know who is at fault so we can point our fingers at them and beat them with sticks ... or a wet trout.

Propoganda utilizes these along with imagery designed to strike chords with the viewer.  To your point, it is quite effective on the general populous.
2006-08-01 23:00:07
spastic bullet
would like to know if you are on crack
+77|6783|vancouver

PuckMercury wrote:

the most effective propaganda uses fear and blame.  The absolute best uses both in tandem.

Create an injustice
Generate fear that the injustice will negatively impact you/yours
Spoon feed who the culprit is

We always need someone to blame.  Has to be that way.  Shit doesn't just "happen".  It's always someone's fault.  We need to know who is at fault so we can point our fingers at them and beat them with sticks ... or a wet trout.

Propoganda utilizes these along with imagery designed to strike chords with the viewer.  To your point, it is quite effective on the general populous.
PuckMercury's wet trout is a threat to us all.

Last edited by spastic bullet (2006-08-02 04:48:51)

2006-08-02 01:52:01
BVC
Member
+325|6938
The internet helps

Also, encouraging people to think for themselves and make up their own minds after considering facts, and also pushing forward that its okay to change your mind.
2006-08-02 08:22:22
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6932|Tampa Bay Florida
IMO, the only way we can have an unbiased media source is by having a non-profit organization, funded by either us or maybe partially funded by the government.  But the reporters/writers will have no ties to any of the parties, and on every issue there would be a representative of the Democrat and Republican parties.

I think PBS is probably the most unbiased news out there, and they do a lot of stuff similar to what I just said.
2006-08-02 11:16:12
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6907|NT, like Mick Dundee

Pubic wrote:

The internet helps

Also, encouraging people to think for themselves and make up their own minds after considering facts, and also pushing forward that its okay to change your mind.
Meh, I don't need no interwebby thing. Or the news. I got a tinfoil hat which protects me from the government and the aliens....

Last edited by Flecco (2006-08-02 11:16:34)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-08-02 11:23:43
jonsimon
Member
+224|6737
The only ways to combat propaganda are information and ignorance.

Informing yourself of the truth, and remaining ignorant to the lies.
2006-08-02 12:55:41
jonsimon
Member
+224|6737
Just a comment, we're all combating propaganda here. Collectively educating each other through argument.
2006-08-02 13:20:51
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6887
kill the ones creating and spreading propaganda and start your own propaganda then lol
2006-08-02 19:31:57
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6791|Southeastern USA
you have to ask what they are not telling you when you read/watch something, which is often quite a bit
2006-08-03 06:12:26
RicardoBlanco
The English
+177|6810|Oxford
So long as you can spot propaganda when you see it there shouldn't be a problem...
2006-08-03 07:17:57
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6769|Portland, OR USA

Spearhead wrote:

IMO, the only way we can have an unbiased media source is by having a non-profit organization, funded by either us or maybe partially funded by the government.  But the reporters/writers will have no ties to any of the parties, and on every issue there would be a representative of the Democrat and Republican parties.
I think that is a HORRIBLE idea actually.  Not against you personally, but I think that would directly lead to government spun BS on an unimaginable scale.  If you've seen V for Vendetta - something like that.  I think the government controlling any aspect of media will only lead to mass misinformation.

Personally, I think the system we have in place is not that bad.  Yes, various sources are skewed one way or the other, but it is of their own accord.  The onus is simply on the individual (as it should be) to educate themselves and sample a variety of news sources on hot topics like Iraq, Israel, 9/11, whatever.

The truth is out there, it simply lies in the grey in between.
2006-08-03 07:53:58
jonsimon
Member
+224|6737

PuckMercury wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

IMO, the only way we can have an unbiased media source is by having a non-profit organization, funded by either us or maybe partially funded by the government.  But the reporters/writers will have no ties to any of the parties, and on every issue there would be a representative of the Democrat and Republican parties.
I think that is a HORRIBLE idea actually.  Not against you personally, but I think that would directly lead to government spun BS on an unimaginable scale.  If you've seen V for Vendetta - something like that.  I think the government controlling any aspect of media will only lead to mass misinformation.

Personally, I think the system we have in place is not that bad.  Yes, various sources are skewed one way or the other, but it is of their own accord.  The onus is simply on the individual (as it should be) to educate themselves and sample a variety of news sources on hot topics like Iraq, Israel, 9/11, whatever.

The truth is out there, it simply lies in the grey in between.
Our system is pretty bad. We don't get 3/4 of the news involving anything in the middle east. And even when we get the news, we only get half the story. And I'm talking about all the american news sources. You simply can't trust a word on the American news.
2006-08-03 11:06:21
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6802

jonsimon wrote:

PuckMercury wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

IMO, the only way we can have an unbiased media source is by having a non-profit organization, funded by either us or maybe partially funded by the government.  But the reporters/writers will have no ties to any of the parties, and on every issue there would be a representative of the Democrat and Republican parties.
I think that is a HORRIBLE idea actually.  Not against you personally, but I think that would directly lead to government spun BS on an unimaginable scale.  If you've seen V for Vendetta - something like that.  I think the government controlling any aspect of media will only lead to mass misinformation.

Personally, I think the system we have in place is not that bad.  Yes, various sources are skewed one way or the other, but it is of their own accord.  The onus is simply on the individual (as it should be) to educate themselves and sample a variety of news sources on hot topics like Iraq, Israel, 9/11, whatever.

The truth is out there, it simply lies in the grey in between.
Our system is pretty bad. We don't get 3/4 of the news involving anything in the middle east. And even when we get the news, we only get half the story. And I'm talking about all the american news sources. You simply can't trust a word on the American news.
So you trust the news that comes from other countries. But that news is unbiased correct? yeah right, so naive.
2006-08-03 11:27:10
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6869
The best way to combat propaganda is through education.  This country (USA) is failing it's youth when it comes to education.
2006-08-03 11:34:43
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6769|Portland, OR USA

GATOR591957 wrote:

The best way to combat propaganda is through education.  This country (USA) is failing it's youth when it comes to education.
QFE

There is far too much reliance by parents on the educational system to solely accomplish the rearing of their children.  It is looked upon as a self-sufficient day care center rather than viewed as a service which must then be supplimented by basic parenting.  I do not know how this attitude is worldwide, but it is definitely a problem here in America.  Parents should and need to take an active role in their childrens' education.
2006-08-03 12:43:09
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6869

PuckMercury wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

The best way to combat propaganda is through education.  This country (USA) is failing it's youth when it comes to education.
QFE

There is far too much reliance by parents on the educational system to solely accomplish the rearing of their children.  It is looked upon as a self-sufficient day care center rather than viewed as a service which must then be supplimented by basic parenting.  I do not know how this attitude is worldwide, but it is definitely a problem here in America.  Parents should and need to take an active role in their childrens' education.
I agree whole heartedly.  Problem is the parents are so self absorbed they don't see what they are doing to their kids.
2006-08-03 12:49:23
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6977|California

GATOR591957 wrote:

PuckMercury wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

The best way to combat propaganda is through education.  This country (USA) is failing it's youth when it comes to education.
QFE

There is far too much reliance by parents on the educational system to solely accomplish the rearing of their children.  It is looked upon as a self-sufficient day care center rather than viewed as a service which must then be supplimented by basic parenting.  I do not know how this attitude is worldwide, but it is definitely a problem here in America.  Parents should and need to take an active role in their childrens' education.
I agree whole heartedly.  Problem is the parents are so self absorbed they don't see what they are doing to their kids.
Most. When my youngan gets home from school, we discuss what he was taught at school, and what his homework is. Math and English are no-brainers, it is what it is. Social Studies and the like, we discuss.
2006-08-10 03:43:20
JimmyBotswana
Member
+82|6828|Montreal
BF2 is propaganda
2006-08-10 04:14:18
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6896

JimmyBotswana wrote:

BF2 is propaganda
For which side?

I get more of a satirical vibe, since:

A) The US are getting whipped (e.g. in BF2 US are taking the fight to the MEC/PLA, then in SF the MEC start nicking carriers and submarines off the US, then by AF the US are defending their homeland... spot any hidden message there?)
B) The battles are balanced and both sides have an equal chance of victory (whereas the US usually operate on a principle of overwhelming force)
C) They predict a global catastrophe brought about by DIceCream (?) followed by another ice age by 2142.
D) They often state the motives for the US/EU invasions as control of oilfields/uranium etc.  That's basically saying that the anti-war protesters are right with the 'no war for oil' slogan.
E) They nerfed the Blackhawks, causing loads of American teenagers to whine like babies .
F) A video which was cut together from ingame footage was perceived as a threat to the national security of America... it wasn't modified content, it was just clips of the game.
2006-08-10 04:55:41
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6907|NT, like Mick Dundee

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

JimmyBotswana wrote:

BF2 is propaganda
F) A video which was cut together from ingame footage was perceived as a threat to the national security of America... it wasn't modified content, it was just clips of the game.
That was one of the funniest things ever. "The Americans came, and they killed my goats" Since when was it dirty and underhanded to use videogames to recruit/indoctrinate the youth into fighting for a cause? I mean, the Pentagon says "Damn terrorists are using games to brainwash our kids" then turns around and makes America's Army...
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

 

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