BF2S Forums Should the US Public School System be Privatized???

personally I agree that the school system should be privatized.  If not completely privatized then at least multiple state run choices to inspire some measure of competition.  That idea has been put into place in some measure at various locations, but not in any wide spread manner.

motherdear wrote:

the idea about it being a social thing is that people have the same opportunity in life by getting the same education and always having a standard, but ofcourse i know that this isn't really working so yeah they should be partially privatized but with checks to insure that the private system don't abuse their power. but the social system have an advantage because that they can coordinate their efforts in the ministeries and thereby make the education more effective.

How fairer than you can go to any private school you wish????  If I want my kid to go to a catholic technology school I can.  If I want my kid to go to a Jewish Liberal arts school I can.  If a want my kid to go to a trades school he can. 

$8000 dollars per child is a lot of money.  10 kids = 80k, 20 kids = 160k.  Average price tag in Oregon public school system is between 10k-11k per child.

For 160k a year I could teach a 20 kid class of 1st-5th grade and give door to door pick-up/delivery service.  I could afford to put a school building on my land, buy a bus, and supplies for class.  I could pay myself and a teachers aid and also have the start-up loans paid back in under 10 years.

mmmm, think of all that vacations and getting the summer off.

Common CameronPoe/Bubbalo, send your kid to my school... I could teach him about how the world REALLY works and how to succeed in a completive work force.  I'll even get the class a bunny to keep as a pet.

Major_Spittle wrote:

motherdear wrote:

the idea about it being a social thing is that people have the same opportunity in life by getting the same education and always having a standard, but ofcourse i know that this isn't really working so yeah they should be partially privatized but with checks to insure that the private system don't abuse their power. but the social system have an advantage because that they can coordinate their efforts in the ministeries and thereby make the education more effective.

How fairer than you can go to any private school you wish????  If I want my kid to go to a catholic technology school I can.  If I want my kid to go to a Jewish Liberal arts school I can.  If a want my kid to go to a trades school he can. 

$8000 dollars per child is a lot of money.  10 kids = 80k, 20 kids = 160k.  Average price tag in Oregon public school system is between 10k-11k per child.

For 160k a year I could teach a 20 kid class of 1st-5th grade and give door to door pick-up/delivery service.  I could afford to put a school building on my land, buy a bus, and supplies for class.  I could pay myself and a teachers aid and also have the start-up loans paid back in under 10 years.

mmmm, think of all that vacations and getting the summer off.

Common CameronPoe/Bubbalo, send your kid to my school... I could teach him about how the world REALLY works and how to succeed in a completive work force.  I'll even get the class a bunny to keep as a pet.

WHat are you on about? There is a private school system AND a public school system. You can't ONLY have a private school system (if that's what you're suggesting) because there will be people who simply will not be able to afford it and become permanently stuck in the poverty trap. For those affluent enough to do so they have the option of attending whatever private school they want, well that's how we do it in Ireland anyway. Fair enough I concede that state funded enterprises and institutions are inefficient and uncompetitive but their a necessary evil in this case.

Do you agree or disagree with the concept of a sensible minimum wage for all (in a developed country - otherwise it's impractical)?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-30 13:48:23)

Major_Spittle wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

How fairer than you can go to any private school you wish????  If I want my kid to go to a catholic technology school I can.  If I want my kid to go to a Jewish Liberal arts school I can.  If a want my kid to go to a trades school he can. 

$8000 dollars per child is a lot of money.  10 kids = 80k, 20 kids = 160k.  Average price tag in Oregon public school system is between 10k-11k per child.

For 160k a year I could teach a 20 kid class of 1st-5th grade and give door to door pick-up/delivery service.  I could afford to put a school building on my land, buy a bus, and supplies for class.  I could pay myself and a teachers aid and also have the start-up loans paid back in under 10 years.

mmmm, think of all that vacations and getting the summer off.

Common CameronPoe/Bubbalo, send your kid to my school... I could teach him about how the world REALLY works and how to succeed in a completive work force.  I'll even get the class a bunny to keep as a pet.

WHat are you on about? There is a private school system AND a public school system. You can't ONLY have a private school system (if that's what you're suggesting) because there will be people who simply will not be able to afford it and become permanently stuck in the poverty trap. For those affluent enough to do so they have the option of attending whatever private school they want, well that's how we do it in Ireland anyway. Fair enough I concede that state funded enterprises and institutions are inefficient and uncompetitive but their a necessary evil in this case.

Do you agree or disagree with the concept of a sensible minimum wage for all (in a developed country - otherwise it's impractical)?

You missed the fact that I said the Goverment would pay up to $8000 dollars a year for a childs school costs. 

$8000 would more than pay for most private schools if that were the only schools there were.  $8000 a year would pay for a year of college at most community colleges across the country.

OK I see now. I don't really disagree with you there. I'm surprised by your assertion that private schooling costs less than public schooling though. That seems odd. I reckon private schools should get governmental funding equal to that received by public schools - this in itself should reduce the fees at private schools making them more accessible. I don't think public schooling can be eradicated altogether though because there will always be those that cannot afford even modest fees. It's not good for society to have people go without any education whatsoever. For me education should be a basic human right in a developed country.

Also there could be supply/demand issues with respect to schools/students and 'entry policy' would have to be regulated so as to be non-discriminatory.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-30 14:18:35)

yeah the gov't is still paying for it, which means the tax payers are still paying for it (no government pays for anything), the biggest difference is that competition will : drive quality up (schools get paid based on attendance, parents will want the students to go to the best school), teachers get paid/promoted based on performance, and crappy teachers get fired (this being the biggest reason the NEA is opposed to it)

edit: 10th post!!! Holy shit!!!

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-07-30 20:21:58)

I want schools to be privatized in the US.  I watched a 20/20 on it a few months back and the results of a study they did were quite interesting.  I will look for that video. 

I say privatize, because if there is a competition for better teachers then maybe kids will learn better.  If not privatize, destroy the unions because unions promote less effort from teachers.  The teachers are protected in the union from being fired in most cases.  Anyways, that is my two cents right now.

Aside from my own motivation to educate myself, I am otherwise a product of US public education. By far, civics courses seemed to lean more towards extreme liberalism than promoting the wealthy.

TeamZephyr wrote:

All schools should be under control of a responsible government. When you privatize schools you get individuals that run them so they can make profit.

Schools should not be used to profit. Period.

It's the case in Australia right now with the "ABC Learning Center" kindergartens. There has been many cases of negligence in these centers due to cost cutting by the bosses and bad hiring practices where they seem to hire people who aren't capable to do the job.

Another problem with having your education system under both private and public hands is that it creates a major class division between the rich and poor. The private schools in Geelong (Geelong College, Geelong Grammar etc) only seem to breed rich snobs that feel that they are better than everyone else. And I know this first hand from talking to many of them. I go to Oberon High School (public) and it has some of the best education results and services in the area, even more than most of the private schools, showing that a good public school is the best result.

Well, If schools were privatized I probably wouldn't send my kid to one that was incompetent.  Right now I can only send my kid to public schools that are incompetent.  Also the only people who can afford private schools in America right now are the wealthy and that is where they go to school.  $8k-$12k a year per child can buy one hell of an education.  Hell I have 2 kids, give me the $24k that the government spends on them and my wife can afford to stay home and raise/school them.  They would learn more and have a happier more supervised childhood.  The Median income in Oregon is only around 44k a year for god sakes. 

I started another post earlier about Liberalism requiring Ignorance, are you liberal???

...this primary school bought to you buy Coca-Cola "Always Coca-cola"

Last edited by medic.me.elmo (2006-07-30 23:35:37)

Major_Spittle wrote:

Well, If schools were privatized I probably wouldn't send my kid to one that was incompetent.  Right now I can only send my kid to public schools that are incompetent.  Also the only people who can afford private schools in America right now are the wealthy and that is where they go to school.  $8k-$12k a year per child can buy one hell of an education.  Hell I have 2 kids, give me the $24k that the government spends on them and my wife can afford to stay home and raise/school them.  They would learn more and have a happier more supervised childhood.  The Median income in Oregon is only around 44k a year for god sakes. 

I started another post earlier about Liberalism requiring Ignorance, are you liberal???

Your first sentence in your post perfectly sums up why privatization of important state services such as education will not work. Privatization of schools won't work because it will and DOES cause individuals to use them for personal profit. The public system needs to be improved, we can't just sell of our resources to private hands, we need to improve on the public system and direct funds where they need to go.

In Australia the federal government gives way more money to private schools with a 1:3 ratio in favor of the privatized ones, all this does is create an economic elite and heaps of disenfranchised kids in the public system. The amount of money you have SHOULD NOT equal the level of education you recieve. Because of this 1:3 ratio you see working class parents try and shell out thousands to send their kids to places they can't afford to send them. All this does is create another economically struggling family, when they could have easier put their child into a well funded public school.

With your liberalism comment, its irrelevant what side of the political fence you choose to sit on, everyone has their own beliefs and no one's beliefts should be categorized. But since you asked I'm a Socialist who borders on communism. I believe that we need to take much of our money out of the hands of a "social elite", we need to fund health care and education more than we fund military and that we need to nationalize important national things such as banks, mines, schools and hospitals.

Liberalism doesn't require ignorance, by saying that your just making a cheap swipe at people who don't agree with you, no political belief requires ignorance, they all appeal to people because people have different motivators, whether its personal greed or world wellbeing.

I think we should get the education system out of the hands of the idiots running it, and put it in the hands of someone that can milk it Ooops...knows what they are doing and can spend the money necessary (private jets, golden parachutes, $10/hr teacher salaries) to get the job done....Halliburton comes to mind.



The system may not broken. But, it sure is bent a little. Solid community support (at the polls) with a plan of what you want will go a long way in helping this situation. Remember, the school system has gone from rewarding excellence, to encouraging mediocrity. So that no student is embarrassed by being slow. No child can be ‘Left Behind’ if everyone is held to the lowest standard possible.

The problem with privatizing the public school system is that it now becomes a business.  What do we do when a business won't expand to handle a growing community?  Do we just let kids go without an education?

What about economies of scale.  School districts can often negotiate better deals on supplies for the school because of the much larger bulk in which they can buy.

What happens when we find that the CEO/CFO have been cooking the books and the school goes bankrupt.  Can we guarantee that there will be a space at some other private schooling institution to take them?

What about smaller communities that may be seen as simply being too small to be profitable for a private company to want to make the investment?

Since these private schools are run for profit, what do we do when the stock holders want higher returns, so the school increases fees and government subsidy you were being paid doesn't cover it any more.  Do we simply allow education to be priced out of the hands of the less well to do?

Yes the public school system needs some work, but I just see far too many larger problems that could come about as a result of privatizing the entire school system.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-08-01 11:40:06)