l41e
Member
+677|6886

First off, I'd like to say that I am not saying all high rankers suck at teamwork, nor am I saying that all privates are insanely awesomely l33t. But this is a situation I have previously encountered many times:

At the start of the game, I create a squad, being the sneaky hiding ground-pounder I am. I click Manage Squad and invite 5 random people from our team. Two of them are privates glad to be invited to a squad, one is a Corporal, and I get a First Lieutenant and a Colonel as part of the deal as well. Then we spawn. Say the starting round is Karkand 64, I'm sure most of you are familiar with the layout of the map notwithstanding the flyboys. We are USMC. I give an order out to attack Factory, on the other side of the river. Then our squad spawns. I spawn on the right forward base, along with the entirety of my squad. However, as I'm climbing the hill, going nearly out-of-bounds and sticking to the wall, I look at my minimap and notice something. The two privates and corporal are all following me eagerly and following my orders, and the corporal has even spawned as spec-ops to take out the assets since he knows the layout of the Factory, but wait. Headcount: 4, including me. Where are the high-rankers? I see two green dots in the Hotel alleyway and some text from one of them calling someone on the opposite team a "noob". The three low-rankers and I proceed to cross the river and take Cement Factory and Factory, the corporal blows up the commander assets. Meanwhile, the two high-rankers in my squad and the rest of my team are slowly and painfully pushing their way through the city with a frontal assault, suffering massive casualties. Granted, we took away the source of the MEC's armor and captured the entire east bank of Karkand's river - but nobody spawned there. Just me and the three low-rankers, who ironically the veteran players on my team call "noobs". I give a warning to my squad to follow orders or be kicked from the squad - the two pointwhores keep on doing what they're doing. I kick them from my squad and they call me a "noob smurf wanker facdp fdajbbb", whatever the hell that means. We lose the round 80-0. Why? 28 members of the USMC were just pushing up against a wall of MEC defenders. Our squad doesn't even make "best squad" when I check while loading.

Five months later, being curious, I check back on the two privates and corporal, curious to see how they're doing. By some miracle, they're all on the same server, on the same map. However, when I get in, I see they have all been promoted to First Sergeant or higher...and they're in front of the Hotel pointwhoring. I think to myself "are these the same guys who helped me take Factory 5 months ago?!"

So I say to all the high-rankers out there who think low-rankers are "noobs" or "smurfs" - think twice.

Edit: Oh yeah. I'm impressed if you read all that.

Last edited by k30dxedle (2006-07-26 09:06:46)

topthrill05
Member
+125|6816|Rochester NY USA
Seems that when you are new, you will do anything. Once you have played awhile you do your own thing.
Bevo
Nah
+718|6759|Austin, Texas
Points. The newbies dont care about points and would rather win.
DirtyMexican
I knife Generals
+278|6775|Search Whore killing fields
I had a 3 star genral in my squad befor.. We heading to burbs and hes whoring the alley way. We ask if he can bring tank to burbs for cover... No can do to busy.

Now i always just go to the square.

Last edited by DirtyMexican (2006-07-26 09:11:59)

paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6978
Sadly high rank doesn't mean good player, most of the high ranker got there by point whoring.

Hell look at me I'm a general and I'm only an average player, but I do like playing in squads, teamwork and going past the hotel to the other flags.

I have tried to spread my time over the different kits and vehicles, Hell look at my time playing then my rank, up to some of the other players my score to time is rubbish. LOL

But if you points, Vehicles and Points whoring are the way to go.

If they wasn't the Stat system them this game would be hell of alot better, more teamplay and squadplay.

But would most people still be playing if it wasn't for the stats?
howler_27
Member
+90|6925

DirtyMexican wrote:

I had a 3 star genral in my squad befor.. We heading to burbs and hes whoring the alley way. We ask if he can bring tank to burbs for cover... No can do to busy.

Now i always just go to the square.
That's the beauty of being a squad leader, if you have a high ranking player who thinks that they do not have to follow the squad commands, you can boot their ass.  Team Play is essential in the squad, and can change the outcome of a game in your favor.
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|6932|Howell, Mi USA
Read most of it, and yea i know what u mean. I formed a squad on Sharqi the other day. The teams were whorably stacked against my team. The highest rank on my team was a 1st sgt against captains + higher. anyway i was a sniper covering teh second flag near MEC spawn. I had 3 squad members, support and 2 medics. These 3 guys that i thought were total knewbs never left my side for a second. Low on ammo? got ammo pack, Got killed? instantly revived. Gave the order to attack city enterance flag and they stuck right behind me all the way. it was amazing. My team ended up winning because of sheer teamwork from everyone. I've tryed to get high ranked squad members away from teh jet spawn, HA what a joke.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
BolvisOculus
Spagett!
+167|6857|Manitowoc, WI
to add to your story, i have had officers force tk me for a jet where the lower ranks politly step off to the side
Sgt_Sieg
"Bow Chicka Bow Wow." The correct way.
+89|7013
Ever play on the Full Contact War server? Nothing but teamwork there. Squad leaders are asked to have a headset before even creating a squad and the commander has to have one. It's one of my favorite servers and they have the best admins I've ever met on it.
Spartanops21
Member
+10|6855|U.S.A, NY
its because alot of new people really dont even know there are saved stats. hell, wen i just got the game, i would follow a higher ranking person around in a squad to cap all the back bases while all the other idiots spawncamp the day away
Entertayner
Member
+826|6808

paranoid101 wrote:

Sadly high rank doesn't mean good player, most of the high ranker got there by point whoring.

Hell look at me I'm a general and I'm only an average player, but I do like playing in squads, teamwork and going past the hotel to the other flags.

I have tried to spread my time over the different kits and vehicles, Hell look at my time playing then my rank, up to some of the other players my score to time is rubbish. LOL

But if you points, Vehicles and Points whoring are the way to go.

If they wasn't the Stat system them this game would be hell of alot better, more teamplay and squadplay.

But would most people still be playing if it wasn't for the stats?
Maybe we need more of an insentive to play in a squad?! Such as higher points for a flag cap or asset destruction, or if you spend a certain % of the round in a squad then you get a bonus or something, I'm not sure but I know there needs to be more of a insentive to do it.  Most of the time i'm just in a squad for the hell of it or with people I know, not to play as a squad...
Use0fWeapons
Get repairs here
+60|6771|Doncaster - UK
i am impressed that you remembered them 5 months later.

When i first had the nerve to join a squad i thought it was a very big thing and that i would get some abuse if i didn't do is i was told.  So i followed them round like a puppy.  Not very useful one ether.
I soon realized that nobody was actually doing what the commander or squad leaders were saying.
Oh well.

Thing is i do try to now, and the best games i have is when it all works, even if we do loose the round.
Dr_3V|L
Member
+51|6963|Twente, The Netherlands
I understand what you're trying to say here. Too bad people are somewhat negative against high-ranked players.

I've also seen some generals/colonels/lieutenants behaving like a 10-year-old spawnraping/hotel-whoring/soleplay bitch, but luckily this is not always the case.

Being a lieutenant-colonel myself, I'm glad to say I'm pretty clean, and I like to stay that way. Teamwork is more enjoyable than being one of those sheep being slaughtered at the front MEC spawn...
Airwolf
Latter Alcoholic
+287|6958|Scotland
Whoa Halt.


Shhhh.

Now EA might implement a negative teamscore for staying out of a set area away from your squad leader


Personally, I'd quite like that. But +1 for taking the words out of everyone's mouth
BabySpinach
Phone Spammer
+207|6829|Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Come on.. Who wants to attack the FACTORY on 64 player Karkand?  Wtf.  No one wants to swim or walk 50 miles not getting any points to either be claymored or killed by armor.  Your little noob buddy didn't spawn spec-ops to take out assets, he spawned spec-ops because all privates play is that kit or sniper.  Every once and a while they will be AT.  If you want teamwork on KARKAND, chill in the little alleyway and you might get statpadded for a few mins.
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|6868|Washington, DC

I admit I pointwhore on Karkand at the meat grinder, but I will gladly go to the back bases if I have a competent squad. Unfortunately when I go into a squad it's always at Hotel and when I make one all my teammates go to hotel. Shit one time one of them spawned on me at Train and he took the Vodnik and drove all the way to Hotel.
ZCor3x
Member
+46|6808|Pennsylvania
Alright, you want to know why the "NOOBS" are following you? Because they don't know better, in a couple of ranks they won't be following anything. Only 1 out of 10 people who play this game "play for the teamwork". How many medics do you think revive people for the team?

Last edited by ZCor3x (2006-07-26 09:48:28)

Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6900|USA
Its nice to have random PUG (pickup groups) do what they have to; follow orders, coordinate kits, and win.

My advice: Join a clan. With the right clan (there are some asshats no matter where you go) every game can be like that.

As far as low ranks > high ranks; I haven't been impressed with a "high rank" yet. Give me a  teamworking squad of privates and Im happy.
Defiance
Member
+438|6909

I was playing Natural Selection (HL1 mod) for the first time today and my god it's confusing. If you think HL1 is complex, think that a female RTS and a male FPS FUCKED FOR SIX WEEKS STRAIT and nine months later out popped NS.

Luckily, a more skilled commander was guiding me along and helping me and mostly telling me what to do.

I died... ALOT but we ended up winning the round 2 on 4.

Once I know what I'm doing, I won't rely on the higher ups to tell me what I'm doing unless they're gods of some wierd sort.
MurPHy
Member
+9|6809|West Deptford, NJ
Most players who have gotten to the rank of officer turn into complete douchebags, and only care about pointage. The best players (from a teamwork perspective) are usually gunny sgts on down.
AllmightyOz
Member
+50|6724|United States - Ohio
I don't think its a question of rank, but of experience. A Lt. Col. is probably better at shooting enemy targets than a corporal or a Sergeant, so he will go to the front line. The corporal will follow you to pick up some easy points. Easy points being, taking out commander assets, capping back bases. Most people play for the points and not the teamwork. I can get more points going full on contact in Karkand, raping people at the hotel than I can walkin my ass all the way back to the cement factory, and taking the base. Notice, once you cap a back base NORMALLY no one from your team spawns there! It's worthless really.
-MIKI3.
Member
+70|6881|The Netherlands
yes  it's true I've seen it happen many times...on maps with planes the team with high ranked ppl often lose because the only thing they do is wait for plane/chopper the whole round, while the low ranked team is capping flags.

Last edited by -MIKI3. (2006-07-26 09:54:54)

ArmouredKitty
Member
+3|6750|England
if you think squad players need incentives wit till 2142- squad leaders have flying drones!
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|6868|Washington, DC

ArmouredKitty wrote:

if you think squad players need incentives wit till 2142- squad leaders have flying drones!
The catch is, there will be a horrible bug with the drones that causes your stats to get erased once you get in one. The worst part: they will never fix the bug even after a year of 2142 being out.
kingcoyote
Member
+5|6868|Montana

EntertaineR_06 wrote:

paranoid101 wrote:

Sadly high rank doesn't mean good player, most of the high ranker got there by point whoring.

Hell look at me I'm a general and I'm only an average player, but I do like playing in squads, teamwork and going past the hotel to the other flags.

I have tried to spread my time over the different kits and vehicles, Hell look at my time playing then my rank, up to some of the other players my score to time is rubbish. LOL

But if you points, Vehicles and Points whoring are the way to go.

If they wasn't the Stat system them this game would be hell of alot better, more teamplay and squadplay.

But would most people still be playing if it wasn't for the stats?
Maybe we need more of an insentive to play in a squad?! Such as higher points for a flag cap or asset destruction, or if you spend a certain % of the round in a squad then you get a bonus or something, I'm not sure but I know there needs to be more of a insentive to do it.  Most of the time i'm just in a squad for the hell of it or with people I know, not to play as a squad...
Since the consensus seems to be that

1) people don't work as a team simply so that they can point whore
2) we want to have good teamwork in order to win and to have more fun...

Why not give everyone on the winning team a 10% point bonus in the same way that the winning commander gets a 100% point bonus?  Its a small but noticeable boost that could potentially encourage the point whores to work as a team and reward those that already are.

Another posibility is to give squad based bonuses instead of team based.  Others have mentioned this but the metrics for it have never been well defined.  Basing it on just the total score of the squad doesnt work because the points say nothing about the teamwork of the squad.  Basing it on teampoints is better but still not completely accurate because we all know its easy to abuse that.  So, perhaps a bonus could be applied to the squad with the most total flag points (defends, captures, assists of both).  This is still not perfect, but I do believe it is closer to the goal. 

To take it further you could assign different values to different flags on the map.  We all know that certain flags have more strategic value than others (like the TV station on Sharqi or factory on karkand).  You could assign an extra 2 flags points to these flags.  The players that capture would NOT get those extra 2 points directly though.  They would get normal amount of points but have the extra applied to their total for figuring the "best squad" at the end.  Then the best squad at the end (based on the flag points recieved plus the extra from the strategic flags) would get a certain point bonus.   You could even base the amount of bonus they recieve on the number of flag points they got.  So we have something like

Total Directly recieved Flag Points for a squad (TDFP)=  total flag defends + total flag captures + total flag defence assists + total flag capture assists

Total Extra Flag Points (TEFP) = 2x bonus of flag points recieved on flags with higher strategic value (these arent directly added to their point total).

Total Squad flag Points (TSFP) = TDFP + TEFP

Best Squad = squad with hightest TSFP

Squad Point Bonus = TSFP * 0.5   (so half their Total Squad Flag Points get reapplied to their score).

I know I know.....I am really really bored at work.

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