BF2S Forums Why Israel Is Pounding Lebanon (World Affairs Brief)

Did you even read the entire article?

His larger point was that Israel has greater intentions than just smashing hezbola(sp), I would tend to agree.  I fully expect to see the US drawn into a larger conflict.  In that respect I agree with what the writer was suggesting.  And to be honest, I say we might as well get this over with now.  It now or later after all.....

Well I will agree that the writer does have present his own slant, on the other hand, his points about the "real" intentions of Israel and perhaps the US as well seem pretty sensible to me (addressed in the latter part of the article).  Personally, I'm trying to stay neutral on the whole topic, just trying to figure out where this is all heading....

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

[ if we exist after that, religion will eventually have to be outlawed.

Guess that would be one bright spot in your scenario.

"Just as liberals in America suggest that our soldiers "do the right thing" and turn their weapons on their commander ..." - Alexanderthegrape


?!!!

While I agree with you in part, Alexander, the same logic could be used to blame american citizens for high crime rates. I don't see anyone arresting/shooting regular american citizens because they 'allow' crime to happen in their vicinity. You have to realize that the average citizen of Lebanon really can't do shit about terrorism, just as the regular citizen of the U.S can't do a damn thing about a robbery that takes place 5 blocks away (other than calling the cops, if they happen to be aware).  It's the government of Lebanon that is to be blamed for any use of their territory/borders for attacks on Israel, not the general population. It would be exactly the same as if you were to blame the citizens of Iraq for Saddam's actions. Would you accept if the U.S was bombing civilians centers wholesale in Iraq (back when the invasion was in full swing, that is), regardless of civilian casualties? After all, the civilians were 'allowing' Saddam to [insert bad things Saddam was doing here] in their neighborhood, don't they deserve it?

I will never accept that intentionally attacking a civilian populace is a viable means of fighting a war. The united states, and to a slightly lesser extent Israel, has the means to reduce civilian casualties to a minimum, and those means should be exercised. Of course, I also recognize that in any armed conflict civilians are going to die, but my point is those deaths can be minimized.

Though this was meant more as a general statement, it does apply in part to the situation in Lebanon/Isreal. The attacks against Israel that kill civilians are deplorable, but that does not justify Israel's killing of civilians in return. In short, Israel's problem is with the leadership of Lebanon, not the average Lebanese Joe Shmoe. The government is who they should be fighting.

Skruples wrote:

While I agree with you in part, Alexander, the same logic could be used to blame american citizens for high crime rates. I don't see anyone arresting/shooting regular american citizens because they 'allow' crime to happen in their vicinity. You have to realize that the average citizen of Lebanon really can't do shit about terrorism, just as the regular citizen of the U.S can't do a damn thing about a robbery that takes place 5 blocks away (other than calling the cops, if they happen to be aware).  It's the government of Lebanon that is to be blamed for any use of their territory/borders for attacks on Israel, not the general population. It would be exactly the same as if you were to blame the citizens of Iraq for Saddam's actions. Would you accept if the U.S was bombing civilians centers wholesale in Iraq (back when the invasion was in full swing, that is), regardless of civilian casualties? After all, the civilians were 'allowing' Saddam to [insert bad things Saddam was doing here] in their neighborhood, don't they deserve it?

I will never accept that intentionally attacking a civilian populace is a viable means of fighting a war. The united states, and to a slightly lesser extent Israel, has the means to reduce civilian casualties to a minimum, and those means should be exercised. Of course, I also recognize that in any armed conflict civilians are going to die, but my point is those deaths can be minimized.

Though this was meant more as a general statement, it does apply in part to the situation in Lebanon/Isreal. The attacks against Israel that kill civilians are deplorable, but that does not justify Israel's killing of civilians in return. In short, Israel's problem is with the leadership of Lebanon, not the average Lebanese Joe Shmoe. The government is who they should be fighting.

With respect,
I do hold a people accountable if they do not rise up against a evil regime. I know its complicated. But the people who dont support the fighting should leave and the U.N. should care for them as displaced citizens while the trouble makers are routed out.
    If, Israel attacked, lets say, Jordan, and began building settlements I would support the bombing of Israel.
I am relatively neutral. Those Muslim people have not bargined in good faith and I lay the blame for this new fighting, as the fighting in Afganistan and Iraq, on them, not us.

Bubbalo wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Again, if these people are going to tolerate their fellow citizens launching rockets into Israel then they too need to suffer.

What are they going to do, ask Hizballah to stop attacking Israel?  They are unarmed and untrained, they do not have the ability to stop them.

They have to not tollerate them. Run them out, turn them in, do something. Or else there will be a much larger war.

Last edited by Alexanderthegrape (2006-07-22 02:14:43)

I'm wondering if I should just sell popcorn to both sides of this argument instead of picking sides...

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

If the lebonese gov itself doesnt have enough power to stop the hezaboola then why dont they get israels aid first?

Because that would be like the US asking Russia to help police it's cities.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

im surprised israel hasnt crushed palistine yet

I'd say they've done a fair job of that.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

err that is completely different... Lebanon could have said to israel that they need help erecting terrorists out of their countries, and terrorist that will attack israel

But how can Lebanon trust Israel to assist in the eradication of terrorists, whilst doing their best to avoid civilian casualties, and withdraw when the job is done?

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

But its still palistnian control... israel have safe zones in palenstine as a warning to jerusalem. but yes they have done quite a good job at it, but they have not taken palenstine totally

They had until recently.  And then they cut off supplies.

israel should kick Lebonans asses.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

ok why didnt lebanon ask earlier then if they knew about the activities? why didnt they immedietly go to israel and say: we are sorry our security sucks and we need your help getting rid of hazabolla

*ahem*

I wrote:

But how can Lebanon trust Israel to assist in the eradication of terrorists, whilst doing their best to avoid civilian casualties, and withdraw when the job is done?

topthrill05 wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

If Israel has joined in the US strategy of purposeful antagonism of the Muslim world

Says all that needs to be said about the authors perspective.

Where is it heading? Good question.
I believe Israel will get nuked within the next five years and then a new world order will arrise, if we exist after that, religion will eventually have to be outlawed.

So you want freedom outlawed as well? You sound a little like the dictators of the past, I could even compare that statement to Hitlers.

But sure, bathe in your ignorance.

Not to mention complete stupidity. He just hates Muslims, he wants people to kill them, he doesn't care who. If Israel's doing it too, fantastic. See how little he cares? Oh they'll just get nuked anyway.

Alexanderthegrape: Boldly grunting at the monitor and smashing the keyboard since as long as I can remember posting here.