BF2S Forums United States 'Rules of Engagement'...

oug wrote:

lowing wrote:

If Israel is not defending itself, where exactly did these people come from? South Dakota? They have every right to exist as anyone else. Whether you like it or not, they are as much a part of the Middle East culture as any muslim. But, due to religious intolerance they have been persecuted for their entire history. I say persecuted for religious intolerance and NOT FOR OIL since they have been treated as a lower life form by the muslims before anyone even knew what oil was and I might add, before George Bush or America for that matter were even born. Now, who is the one looking for excuses to commit genocide, the muslims or the Israelis ? Feel free of course to support the muslim terrorists with any excuse you can come up with that puts America, Israel, or Bush in as bad a light as possible. You are after all, free to do so.

There is a great difference between defending oneself and what the Israelis are doing in the region. You see, the time when the Jews were persecuted as you say is long gone. The tables have turned ever since, and now it is the Israeli government who is doing all the persecuting.

So let's stop all this whining about religious intolerance and the like. No more using the Holocaust as an excuse to mask the Israelis' expansionism. It is no more a matter of existence for Israel. The state of Israel is there to stay. They have enough firepower to make sure of that (courtesy of our friend the USA).

Israel and the United States have mutual benefits from this situation. Israel is getting all the help they need to control their neighbors and further strengthen their position in the region -and globally- and the US is using Israel as a means of control over the area where the oil is.

And last but not least, this "You are after all, free to do so" thing. What is this anyway? As if you or your country had anything to do with me being free.
Hell yes I am free. And the United States of America had nothing to do with it.

It seems lately that your country poses as the ones who have created democracy and spread it all over the world. You say that the world owes you their freedom. Well think again.

As much as I hate to categorize people according to their place of birth, you are forcing me to do this. Your country didn't even exist 300 years ago. On the other hand, 5000 years ago, my fellow countrymen were discovering the notions of democracy and freedom, while the rest of humanity were eating raw flesh and living in the caves. So enough of this patronizing please.

The world does not owe anything to the USA. Your so-called free speech is a joke, not to mention your democratic procedures. How many people vote in the USA? And even if they do... does it matter?? You only have 2 parties that are virtually the same!! What kind of democracy is that? Plus lately you have been living under a finely constructed dictatorship, which successfully exchanges your freedom for "security". And you go along with that.

Don't ever try to teach me about democracy and freedom of speech. We fucking gave it to you and you are fighting pre-emptive wars in its name.

Ikarti wrote:

I remember how the US owes its sovereignty to France.

lowing wrote:

You miss understood me. I didn't say you owe your freedom to the US. I said you owe your freedom to those that fought IN A WAR and died to bring it to you, and that is your countrymen past or present.

lowing wrote:

As for the pre-emptive war thing goes.......the best defense is a strong offense. It is US policy now, not to sit and wait for terror to hit us again, and to date, it is working...................No apologies......go see one of our numerous liberals for all your apologetic needs.

lowing wrote:

With all of your cultures vast contributions to the world, it is too bad, daily showers or a bath and deodorant, can not be listed among them.

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ikarti wrote:

I remember how the US owes its sovereignty to France.

yup and paid back twice in WW1 and WW2.so with your fantastic memory, you should remember  France owes us 1

Except it was the russians that took the heat and defeat germany both times.

The Americans only entered WWI after france was decimated, and only contributed to the stalemate on the european front.

It was the Russian front in both wars that defeated the Germans, so France owes Russia, not us.

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

The threat of ignoring the cease fire and taking a posture of something to hide. Why ddo we keep this up. Iraq broke the cease fire and it was dealt with. Bottom line.

No, it didn't.  The First Gulf War was between the UN and Iraq.  As such, until the UN viewed Iraq as in violation of the ceasefire, it was not.

Also, can you please fix the link on the previous page?

oug wrote:

lowing wrote:

You miss understood me. I didn't say you owe your freedom to the US. I said you owe your freedom to those that fought IN A WAR and died to bring it to you, and that is your countrymen past or present.

I did not misunderstand. You said I am free to say whatever I want, clearly implying that you or your country are making sure of that. And I explained how this is not the case. Once and for all, your government is NOT the protector of freedom. The other way around rather.

lowing wrote:

As for the pre-emptive war thing goes.......the best defense is a strong offense. It is US policy now, not to sit and wait for terror to hit us again, and to date, it is working...................No apologies......go see one of our numerous liberals for all your apologetic needs.

Yes, I realize it's US policy now, but just think of what you're saying here for a moment. Some guy beats you up at school and then it's ok for you to go out with a shotgun and shoot whoever you think may be thinking of punching you - before he actually does!!! If that's your idea of justice and freedom you belong to the mental institution.

lowing wrote:

With all of your cultures vast contributions to the world, it is too bad, daily showers or a bath and deodorant, can not be listed among them.

Hahahaha that is so low. Clearly you have no idea about the Greek civilization or any civilization for that matter. Or maybe it was the rednecks who invented bathing!

BEE_Grim_Reaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. no, I implied that freedom isn't free, not mine or yours, and war and sacrifice was the only way either of our countries won our freedom.

2. Only a fool will stand by and let a bully plan and scheme and prepare to beat his ass. Not to mention that America is RESPONDING to a decade of terror attacks. We are on the offense now, so again, no apologies. That is of course, you really wanted me to apologize for my country not sitting around waiting  for the next attack to occur before we do something about it.


3. I wasn't joking, I have worked airplanes that you EU folks get off of, and you bastards need to get into the 21st century with your personal hygiene. Try introducing your women to a fuckin' razor as well.

Also, I have lived in the far east as a kid so I have experienced other cultures. I loved it.

Well... I must say... This discussion has been quite amusing and enlightning. As always, it has degraded into a discussion of the all so often read US Good Guy/Bad Guy discussion. Honestly... aren't you people bored of it at some point?

now to my comments on those bright utterances of comrade lowing here:

ad 1: Freedom is one of the most misused and misconceived words these days.... maybe soon it will be nominated for the unword of the year....
Maybe you should first start off with defining, what freedom is exactly. And if you're done with that, go out and ask others wether their definition of freedom is the same.

First of all: no country is about freedom.... a country can only endorse freedom since freedom (and liberty) are something personal, something tied to an individual.

ad 2: as matter of fact, I somehow tie the picture of a big, strongmuscled but somewhat dimwitted guy to the term bully.... so sorry if I have some problems with tying this term to Iraq...
However, a terrorist, a fanatic who is willing to die for a cause, however illconceived it my be, has a motivation to become a terrorist... they are not really born as such. So my question here is: Have you ever spent any thoughts on the reasons that precipitated terrorism in the US? If it were just about religious fanatism, why only the US? There are enough European countries which share similarities with the US.... and don't tell me, they envied the architectural beauty of the World Trade Center...
However... since the US are now proudly presenting the response to 10 years of terrorists attacks (how many precisely? 4? 5?) deal with the consequences. You wished to fight a war, preemptive or not? You have it. People DIE in a war. Guerillas do NOT fight fair. You should have known that. You should have known since Vietnam. Actually, you should have known since 1781.... since you Americans were the insurrectionists there... and did not adhere to the British ROE.
Since it is not possible to make on Omelette without breaking some eggs, it is not possible to wage a war without having some dead... and who said, it only had to be someone of the other side?

ad 3: Soooo... you worked on some airplanes.... great... how many Europeans were on there? From which countries in Europe? You know... I hate people who have a tendency to generalize like that. How many people from Europe do you personally and intimately know? If I would generalize from what I have read here most of the time, I would stereotype the typical American as a gun-loving, socio- and psychopathic, dimwittig, bushwacking moron without any intelligence, education or culture.

I don't.

But I may remind you, lowing, that basically fucking everything you prize as an American achievement, is acutally something being in use and being invented in Europe before America was even settled. May I remind you, that 90% of the population of the US is actually of European decendancy? The rest consists of the natives that where brutally subdued.

BEE_Grim_Reaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sorry I stopped reading your post when you suggested Islamic terrorism only happened in the US.

------->"So my question here is: Have you ever spent any thoughts on the reasons that precipitated terrorism in the US? If it were just about religious fanatism, why only the US?"   


Pretty much making the rest of your post not worth reading.

Why? Because it does not fit into your narrow view of the world? Or because the questions would actually make your tiny little brain explode?

I am really sorry to say that, but you are really not only a disgrace to Americans but to the educated humanity as well.

Last edited by lowing (2006-07-23 20:46:29)

lowing wrote:

Better go back and review your history, the UN did acknowledge Iraq was in violation of the cease fire agreement, what do you think the 10 years of bullshit threats and additional resolutions were about, especially 1441??

lowing wrote:

Islamic terror......Russia.......

lowing wrote:

..........Australia..........

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-07-24 00:29:57)

lowing wrote:

Terrorism in Russia, like I said.

lowing wrote:

As far as Australia goes, my intent was to show that since Indonesia is in your region,  and an overwhelming majority of those killed or wounded was Australian, that there is no one untouchable, and certainly being an American is NOT the only factor involved to be a victim of terror.

lowing wrote:

Was it Muslims that raided the school over there and killed hundreds of children...ISLAMIC TERROR

lowing wrote:

exactly foreigners from all countries, NOT just Americans...........thanks for helping make my point. It was at your front door bubbalo

BEE_Grim_Reaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

BEE_Grim_Reaper wrote:

Why? Because it does not fit into your narrow view of the world? Or because the questions would actually make your tiny little brain explode?

I am really sorry to say that, but you are really not only a disgrace to Americans but to the educated humanity as well.

YOU call me dumb?? Pick up a fuckin newspaper once in awhile and you will see Islamic terror in England, Spain, Russia,  the Phillipines, Australia, Indonsia, foiled attempts in Canada...... I mean really, where the fuck have you been ???

For you to say that Islamic terrorists are only targeting the US is about as fucking STUPID AS I HAVE EVER READ ON HERE.


Until you correct yourself, or get caught up on current evens in the world around you, I see no need in responding to anything you put before me.

Actually yes... from what I have read of you, I call you dumb... Personally, I read the newspapers everyday... and since I am in Europe, as you might have noticed, the newspapers are a little bit more unbiased.

As for your examples... Terror in Russia? True... caused by tschechens... Terror in England... I recall 1 incident.... and as a matter of fact, England has allied itself with the US. As for Indonesia? What do you expect? That country is muslim... Spain? One incident, that was allegedly conducted by muslim extremists... After the spanish government allied itself with the US... The question I have: we have over 180 countries in the world, many of them being christian as well.... why are they not subjected to terrorism by muslims? There were no terrorist attacks in France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico.... I wonder why?

It is your right to disagree with my opinion as a free person.... but so is mine.... and I disagree with you, which it seems is not tolerable. Anyhow.... as long as US soldiers are in places, they do not belong, they are at risk being killed (which is a risk being part of the job btw). And as long your government and all those, who back military action in Iraq do not change their mind regarding this, they are as guilty of the deaths of their soldiers as those who trigger the IED's....

If you think, you can achieve world's "freedom" or world domination by the tip of the bayonet, your are sadly mistaken. Any government who thinks that way is comparable to Hitler or Stalin.