BF2S Forums If Israel had been created in Germany...

things would be alot more peaceful. religion is so ugly. I'm afraid hitler would have turned over in his shallow burnt grave though.

Since Israel's religious heritage just not lies in Central Europe, I can't image that this would've ever happened even theoretically.

But what if? Well, I think Israel's history would've been a lot more peaceful and they would have been part of NATO.

lol and what with jerusalem? how do u replace it to germany?

impossible to imagine. Just a week ago, you'd have been partly responsible for the holocaust, and the next day, you are supposed to be good neighbours ? nah, I don't think this would have worked out.

historically, the jews had been living in diaspora for thousands of years, ever since they had been driven off their "original" homeland in the middle east. Also, Jerusalem is the centre of their religion.
Thus, it was only natural for them to push for a new state of Israel in the region where it is now.
I don't think Zionists would have liked the idea of settling in germany...

hypothetically, it might have led to a more stable middle east, but who knows ? Maybe there would have been other conflicts, possibly between islamic nations.

It's like the classic "What if Hitler had never been born" or " what if you'd have the chance to assassinate Hitler before 1939?" questions. You'll never find a satisfying answer to those. History is just too complex.
things might even have developped a lot worse. You just don't know, and there are no facts to throw in a reasonable, serious debate.

CameronPoe wrote:

Lisik wrote:

lol and what with jerusalem? how do u replace it to germany?

We could create a 'Jerusalem Theme Park' just south of Dresden. Instead of a life-size replica of the wailing wall you could have the whole fucking temple replicated!!! Sounds good?

PS You seemed to manage fine without Jerusalem for the last 1700 years.

1700 years of social outcast u found "fine"....??? hhmmm... U are an intresting persone i wanna notice!

Ok! Then, what with another jewish historikal places? It will take much than a half of Germany! Were would u put the germans then? Also build them some "Berlin Theme Park"? (lol nothing personal, i like germans )

parthian1000 wrote:

One possible effect of Israel being founded in Europe would be the increase in sectarian tensions between Sunni and Shi'a communities/states in the Middle East.  One could argue, ironically, that the presence of Israel in the Middle East has been a unifying force for Arab nations - bit of a steep price for that unity though.

It is clear that the tensions between Sunni and Shi'a Islam are prevalent and in many ways no different to the tensions amongst similar communities (the former Yugoslavia for instance or Northern Ireland), particularly when you factor in the regional politics.  Its also worth noting that many Arabs identify themselves as belonging to one of two seperate ethnic groups - the Western arabs of Palestine/Egypt etc and the Eastern arabs of Yemen, UAE/Saudi etc.  I was surprised at the depth of feeling expressed by an Arab colleague of mine when I asked where he was from - his exact words being:

"Do I look like some Palestinian goat-f*cker?  I'm from the Yemen!"

The point I'm making is that historically, there are other tensions in the Middle East that even if Israel were not where it currently is, would bubble to the surface eventually.  Its removal would not necessarily mean a stable Middle East.

Probably true. I would point out however that in the case of Ireland (I can't speak for Yugoslavia) the confilct/tension is more ethnic/territorial - religion is just a convenient way of identifying which side of the fence you sit on and your ethnic background.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-14 04:08:22)

Can't they all just.. get along?

Like these two former enemies:

PekkaA wrote:

maybe north america should be handed to norwegians, after all vikings were first to get there. (Smilie goes here)

Or maybe native americans.. after all they were first to get there..

In relation to Bubbalo's post about Israel's attack of Germany.

Israel is not a "war-hungry" country as many "Western" countries think. You think for one second Bubbalo about what you are saying before basing your statement on prejudice. I mean have you ever even met a Jew? Or been inside a synagogue? Have you ever imprinted your foot print onto Israeli land? I seriously doubt you have done the latter two. If you had, you would have realised the Jews are free loving people, keen to learn about the world and make new friends. For the first time George W. Bush said something recently:
"Israel has the right to defend itself- as does anyother country," or something along those lines.

As for the question posted at the head of this topic, I think the world would be somewhat peaceful and terrorist attacks would be few in number if Israel were to be formed in Europe. Why? Because at this time, in Europe, a huge anti-semitist movement is occuring due to the fact that there is an increasingly large population of Muslims {whom I have nothing against- except for the violent few which blot their race} there. If Israel were to be located in Germany, there would me more respect to for the Jew- therfore a ore peaceful Europe.

But on the other hand, Israel is meant to exist, and has the right to exist, where her people used to live, many years ago. In the Middle-East.

EDIT: Quote problem.

Last edited by BattlefieldMedic (2006-07-14 04:45:00)

RicardoBlanco wrote:

They should have stuck Israel in america. They get kicked out of every country they settle and after their little episode in Lebanon they're probably going to get kicked out of the middle east. No country really want's them (observation not opinion) and they seem to piss people off wherever they go. Seeing as america basically bankrolls them in the middle east anyway why not put some land aside for them in the US? They did it for the Native Americans so why not their jewish buddies?

Errrmmmm...no.

Lisik wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Lisik wrote:

lol and what with jerusalem? how do u replace it to germany?

We could create a 'Jerusalem Theme Park' just south of Dresden. Instead of a life-size replica of the wailing wall you could have the whole fucking temple replicated!!! Sounds good?

PS You seemed to manage fine without Jerusalem for the last 1700 years.

1700 years of social outcast u found "fine"....??? hhmmm... U are an intresting persone i wanna notice!

Ok! Then, what with another jewish historikal places? It will take much than a half of Germany! Were would u put the germans then? Also build them some "Berlin Theme Park"? (lol nothing personal, i like germans )

Religion... It's a terrible thing. Your people lost there original country a long time ago, it became anothers country. For any other nation this would be history and would not lead to any 'claims' being made. An example would be Normandy trying to claim England, not going to happen.

Your people (before your lifetime) was given free rein and full support to set it'sself up in someone elses country (please, no arguments about it not being used or 'developed', it wasnt yours) and now we're still paying the price for this mistake. You have NO CLAIM to the land you are now on, the only problem is that now you've been there a generation or so your people now can call it there homeland and will fight to defend it.

I'm sorry europe felt so much pity on your people after the holocaust that we didnt plan ahead, a feeling of remorese for the Jews and lack of empathy for the Islamic nations lead to this, now we just have to broker peace as best as possible.

Religion is the greatest force for evil in this world, many people believe it is more important than any other laws and thats a reciepe for disaster, as shown time and time again.

Bubbalo wrote:

BattlefielMedic:  So, you're telling me, if I killed thousands of Americans, and suddenly I had a weak army, and America had a strong army, America would just let it slide?

I know a number of Jews, but I don't see how stepping on dirt in a specific location would help me understand them.  I have never called a particular race war-hungry.  Some countries, yes.  Israel would be one.  But that has nothing to do with my statement.  That had to do with the fact that planting Jews next to Germans immediately after WWII would be like storing lit candles next to gunpowder: VERY STUPID.

And countries do have a right to defend themselves, provided they don't target innocent civilians.  How do you figure Israel is "meant" to exist, BTW?

Edited for clarity.

For what its worth Bubalo, My Grandmother went to Germany in 1950 to visit Realatives and aid them.

She said, and I quote

" I thought to myself, They said Hitler killed all the jews? They were Everywhere, ..Everywhere "