He raised his voice at me.GATOR591957 wrote:
No need for name calling here. jonsimon has his opinions anre should be respected for them. I don't agree but no need for childish behavior.rawls2 wrote:
What an idiot you are. So naive to the real evils of this world. So because the mob gave money to charites back in the forties that made their organizations ok.jonsimon wrote:
They hide hospitals and schools among citizens? HEZBOLLAH HAS TWO DISTINCT DIVISIONS, ONE OF WHICH IS CIVILLIAN. In other words, Israel is attempting to bomb peaceful politicians that support an organization which runs HOSPITALS SCHOOLS AND NEWS SERVICES. HOW CAN ANYONE CONDONE SUCH ACTION? If you think blowing up schools, hospitals, and homes is reasonable you are a sick person!
Civilian infrastructure? - Those are military targets. Tactical bombing is never against the body of an army. Pre-invasion bombing is: transportation, utilities, supplies, leadership. What this causes is: eliminates supply, isolates the battlefield, disrupts the chain of command. This is pretty basic.Bubbalo wrote:
That's civilian infrastructure. They're different from terrorists with rockets because they're inanimate objects, not people. Also, they're escape routes for civilians.Pug wrote:
And I guess they happen to randomly hit the airport, bridges, depots,When have they hit Hez leadership? I'm aware of them wounding one guy, hardly a coup for precision attacks.Pug wrote:
and Hez leadership on accident then, huh?
The airport - eliminate supplies from Iran. The bridges - eliminate supplies from Syria and isolate the battlefield. Utilities - no power = slower communications & additional disruption. Leadership - they bombed a command bunker.
There will be collateral damage - the Hez aren't going to paint themselves orange, lie out in the open, and give the Israeli's a map. The argument is whether they could have been more surgical in their attacks...
There is three possiblities here:
1) Israel is attacking only civilian targets
2) Israel is attacking military targets in non-surgical strikes (disregarding civilian casualities)
3) Israel is attacking military targets in surgical strikes
I'm thinking its between 2 & 3 - Israel could have done a better job and lessening the collateral damage.
You are stating they are targeting only the civilians, we will disagree because if you carpet bomb an area, it would not include military targets.
Also, we only have the information we are given from the media. The coverage will be slanted on both sides of the coin. For instance - The Hez are not going to announce they have lost crucial leaders, and for balance - Israel is not going to report targeting civillians (the Hez will though).
We dont have to fund them, Syria and Iran and NK and possibly some soviet funding is available. Heck, some of the weapons are from the US anyways. So i say its even.HM1{N} wrote:
OK, so I say we fund Lebanon and Palestine the same way, mith money, weapons and aid, to even the balance of power...<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
Im not, Someone in this heartless Anti Isreal world needs to help them servive extinction if they didnt HAVE a military.Bubbalo wrote:
Are you at all upset that your tax-dollars are going towards their military?
BTW Bub,,,,,,, I dont give a rats ass if ya was talking to me earlier, I have the freedom to comment and give my opinion as do you any time i wish. Isnt the internet great?
Just a small point. I don't think North Korea have ANYTHING to do with Hezbollah. They can't afford to keep the power on in their own country let alone providing for some far-off band of militants that they have little idealogical connection with.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
We dont have to fund them, Syria and Iran and NK and possibly some soviet funding is available. Heck, some of the weapons are from the US anyways. So i say its even.HM1{N} wrote:
OK, so I say we fund Lebanon and Palestine the same way, mith money, weapons and aid, to even the balance of power...<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
Im not, Someone in this heartless Anti Isreal world needs to help them servive extinction if they didnt HAVE a military.
BTW Bub,,,,,,, I dont give a rats ass if ya was talking to me earlier, I have the freedom to comment and give my opinion as do you any time i wish. Isnt the internet great?
Was that a feeble attempt to link an infatada to all out war? ROTFLMAO, Pot shots across the border then running like mad, do not constitute a war.CameronPoe wrote:
Bomb 'those fools'? Those fools = Hezbollah? Those fools = The Lebanese? Those fools = Hezbollah & The Lebanese? Which will it be? Bombing Lebanon into the stone age is exactly the kind of state Israel need as neighbours for the future!!! LOL. Afghanistan isn't exactly the kind of neighbour that Pakistan can exactly be happy about.|AIA| DAS wrote:
They are showing incredible restraint. With the 4th most powerful army on the planet, they could bomb those fools into the stone age.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Five is hilarious? Do you see tanks running through Beriut?The current Palestinian intifada is in it's fifth or sixth year and doesn't seem to be on the brink of being ended just yet. The six day war showed the strategic ineptitude of the arabs back then - why face a more powerful army in conventional warfare when guerrilla war would be far more effective? That's the difference this time around. Just in the same way that Iraq is being held hostage by insurgents several years after USA 'liberated' them (LOL) the likes of Hezbollah could bleed Israel dry gradually. A far more intelligent tactic than trying to attack what in my mind is the best military force on the plant, i.e. the IDF, in open battle.|AIA| DAS wrote:
And for all of those who think the Arab street is going to gang up on Israel, tell them to bring it. That has also happened before and Israel bashed the bollocks out of them in less than 7 days.
BTW a few post back Mr Fairly UNbalanced, you metioned you weren't anti Israel just Anti Zionist, yet you made mention that you were happy you couldn't find any links to EU giving financial aid to Israel.
Speaking from both sides of your mouth lately Poe?
No in fact I think you'll find a post of mine stating that the thread-starting post was an anti-Israeli post. No ambiguity there. Maybe you're confusing it with me being anti-semitic, which I most certainly am not. For the record, I don't want any aid being sent to Israel from the EU so that Israel can perpetrate crimes against humanity in the Palestinian territories, not to mention the fact that it is in continuous contravention of a gigantic raft of UN resolutions. They sanctioned Iraq and North Korea for years - where are the sanctions and threats of military action on Israel? I think we need regime change in Israel - I don't believe that the state of Israel shouldn't exist. Had I been around in the 40s I would have said it shouldn't exist (in Palestine that is) but Israel is a reality now and there is no getting away from that.|AIA| DAS wrote:
Was that a feeble attempt to link an infatada to all out war? ROTFLMAO, Pot shots across the border then running like mad, do not constitute a war.CameronPoe wrote:
Bomb 'those fools'? Those fools = Hezbollah? Those fools = The Lebanese? Those fools = Hezbollah & The Lebanese? Which will it be? Bombing Lebanon into the stone age is exactly the kind of state Israel need as neighbours for the future!!! LOL. Afghanistan isn't exactly the kind of neighbour that Pakistan can exactly be happy about.|AIA| DAS wrote:
They are showing incredible restraint. With the 4th most powerful army on the planet, they could bomb those fools into the stone age.The current Palestinian intifada is in it's fifth or sixth year and doesn't seem to be on the brink of being ended just yet. The six day war showed the strategic ineptitude of the arabs back then - why face a more powerful army in conventional warfare when guerrilla war would be far more effective? That's the difference this time around. Just in the same way that Iraq is being held hostage by insurgents several years after USA 'liberated' them (LOL) the likes of Hezbollah could bleed Israel dry gradually. A far more intelligent tactic than trying to attack what in my mind is the best military force on the plant, i.e. the IDF, in open battle.|AIA| DAS wrote:
And for all of those who think the Arab street is going to gang up on Israel, tell them to bring it. That has also happened before and Israel bashed the bollocks out of them in less than 7 days.
BTW a few post back Mr Fairly UNbalanced, you metioned you weren't anti Israel just Anti Zionist, yet you made mention that you were happy you couldn't find any links to EU giving financial aid to Israel.
Speaking from both sides of your mouth lately Poe?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-20 08:30:33)
So by this you are saying the majority of Israel are Zionist? Since you only have issues with Zionist, and You are anti Israeli...Yet you have no problem with Radical Islamics?CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly I have no problem with rational and level headed Israelis. It's the Zionazis I am troubled with.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
I have no problem with rational and level headed Arabs. Its the islamo-facists that I am troubled with.
Both sides of your gob must be getting chafed by now huh?
Hey Poe,
Now go back and edit the post where you said it, just like you edited the intial post, after I said you were hostile in it.
Now go back and edit the post where you said it, just like you edited the intial post, after I said you were hostile in it.
The Zionazis are the ones in government. There are a large number of level-headed secularly minded Israelis in Israel. My qualm isn't with the people it's with the actions of their government.|AIA| DAS wrote:
So by this you are saying the majority of Israel are Zionist? Since you only have issues with Zionist, and You are anti Israeli...Yet you have no problem with Radical Islamics?CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly I have no problem with rational and level headed Israelis. It's the Zionazis I am troubled with.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
I have no problem with rational and level headed Arabs. Its the islamo-facists that I am troubled with.
Both sides of your gob must be getting chafed by now huh?
You must be reading through your bad eye again - 'you have no problem with radical islamists' - I don't know how many times I have had to reiterate, during the course of this thread, that I do not support Hezbollah. You know that it is possible to not support radical islam AND criticise Israel, don't you?
What part of the initial post did I edit?|AIA| DAS wrote:
Hey Poe,
Now go back and edit the post where you said it, just like you edited the intial post, after I said you were hostile in it.
The entire thing... You re-worded the entire post after I told you it sounded hostile.
Stop Dancing Poe...
Stop Dancing Poe...
That's bollocks - I checked the initial post. It sounds as hostile as it was originally. All I edited was the spelling.|AIA| DAS wrote:
The entire thing... You re-worded the entire post after I told you it sounded hostile.
Stop Dancing Poe...
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n191 … /lucky.jpg
You're beginning to clutch at straws with accusations like that.
PS Your accusation is pathetically lame. It says post last edited 1 minute after I originally posted!!! You nor anyone else would even have responded at that point! LOL
Try getting back on track with proper debate rather than making false accusations to cover your lack of counter-arguments.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-20 08:53:23)
Even? You think $80bn a year in Israeli funding by the US can be matched by anyone else - Thats about the same as the increase in US defence expenditure since war on Afghanistan and Iraq. Why do you think the Lebanese and Palestinans aren't bombing the Israelis with F-18s or more likely Mig-29s which if they had that sort of defence budget they would be. They don't have anything like the resources the Israelis have, which is why they resort to cheap rocket attacks with no guidance systems, suicide bombers and RPGs. If they could lauch sophisticated attacks to take out Israeli infrastructure I'm sure they would.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
We dont have to fund them, Syria and Iran and NK and possibly some soviet funding is available. Heck, some of the weapons are from the US anyways. So i say its even.HM1{N} wrote:
OK, so I say we fund Lebanon and Palestine the same way, mith money, weapons and aid, to even the balance of power...<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
Im not, Someone in this heartless Anti Isreal world needs to help them servive extinction if they didnt HAVE a military.
I'd be careful about all the money being pumped into Israel if I were American - purely because the money could be put to much better use domestically - or there are a lot of REAL 3rd world countries that could really use that money to deal with famine, drought etc.
No but you DO support Hamas? Which BTW is the Palestine Government. You know the flag in your sig...CameronPoe wrote:
The Zionazis are the ones in government. There are a large number of level-headed secularly minded Israelis in Israel. My qualm isn't with the people it's with the actions of their government.|AIA| DAS wrote:
So by this you are saying the majority of Israel are Zionist? Since you only have issues with Zionist, and You are anti Israeli...Yet you have no problem with Radical Islamics?CameronPoe wrote:
Similarly I have no problem with rational and level headed Israelis. It's the Zionazis I am troubled with.
Both sides of your gob must be getting chafed by now huh?
You must be reading through your bad eye again - 'you have no problem with radical islamists' - I don't know how many times I have had to reiterate, during the course of this thread, that I do not support Hezbollah. You know that it is possible to not support radical islam AND criticise Israel, don't you?
*Poe Dances away*
I support the people of Palestine in their struggle for a fully sovereign homeland and for reparations from the Israelis who displaced them to make room for them. That's what that flag signifies to me. I can't support the Hamas party - which incidentally has it's very own logo - because they are fundamentalist islamists. I'm an atheist secularist.|AIA| DAS wrote:
No but you DO support Hamas? Which BTW is the Palestine Government. You know the flag in your sig...CameronPoe wrote:
The Zionazis are the ones in government. There are a large number of level-headed secularly minded Israelis in Israel. My qualm isn't with the people it's with the actions of their government.|AIA| DAS wrote:
So by this you are saying the majority of Israel are Zionist? Since you only have issues with Zionist, and You are anti Israeli...Yet you have no problem with Radical Islamics?
Both sides of your gob must be getting chafed by now huh?
You must be reading through your bad eye again - 'you have no problem with radical islamists' - I don't know how many times I have had to reiterate, during the course of this thread, that I do not support Hezbollah. You know that it is possible to not support radical islam AND criticise Israel, don't you?
*Poe Dances away*
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n191 … /lucky.jpg
A fully sovereign homeland, run by a democratically elected HAMAS! If you support the people you support the government elected by the majority of the people.CameronPoe wrote:
I support the people of Palestine in their struggle for a fully sovereign homeland and for reparations from the Israelis who displaced them to make room for them. That's what that flag signifies to me. I can't support the Hamas party - which incidentally has it's very own logo - because they are fundamentalist islamists. I'm an atheist secularist.|AIA| DAS wrote:
No but you DO support Hamas? Which BTW is the Palestine Government. You know the flag in your sig...CameronPoe wrote:
The Zionazis are the ones in government. There are a large number of level-headed secularly minded Israelis in Israel. My qualm isn't with the people it's with the actions of their government.
You must be reading through your bad eye again - 'you have no problem with radical islamists' - I don't know how many times I have had to reiterate, during the course of this thread, that I do not support Hezbollah. You know that it is possible to not support radical islam AND criticise Israel, don't you?
*Poe Dances away*
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n191 … /lucky.jpg
That is untrue. I support the American people but I abhorr their government with a seething passion. The election of Hamas was a protest vote against the corruption of Fatah, as well as being just pure desperation with the lack of progress with Israel under moderate leadership.|AIA| DAS wrote:
A fully sovereign homeland, run by a democratically elected HAMAS! If you support the people you support the government elected by the majority of the people.
Yes to be sure... They put a terrorist organization in power, cause their leader of the other terrorist party, the PLO, died.CameronPoe wrote:
That is untrue. I support the American people but I abhorr their government with a seething passion. The election of Hamas was a protest vote against the corruption of Fatah, as well as being just pure desperation with the lack of progress with Israel under moderate leadership.|AIA| DAS wrote:
A fully sovereign homeland, run by a democratically elected HAMAS! If you support the people you support the government elected by the majority of the people.
Just what do you 'abhorr with a seething passion' about the Americans Government? *Hears Flames rumbling in the distance*
That would be off-topic but I'm sure you can guess. Starts with an I ends with a Q. You can check up the 'For people who believe things are going badly in Iraq' thread where I have a lengthy exchange with Darth_Fleder.|AIA| DAS wrote:
Yes to be sure... They put a terrorist organization in power, cause their leader of the other terrorist party, the PLO, died.CameronPoe wrote:
That is untrue. I support the American people but I abhorr their government with a seething passion. The election of Hamas was a protest vote against the corruption of Fatah, as well as being just pure desperation with the lack of progress with Israel under moderate leadership.|AIA| DAS wrote:
A fully sovereign homeland, run by a democratically elected HAMAS! If you support the people you support the government elected by the majority of the people.
Just what do you 'abhorr with a seething passion' about the Americans Government? *Hears Flames rumbling in the distance*
For the record - I do believe in Palestinians violent rebelling against Israeli military targets while the state of Israel remains intransigently oppressive and continues to steal their land and operate outside of international law. I don't condone killing Israeli civilians however.
PS I view Kadima/Likud as 'state terrorist' parties.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-20 09:34:20)
80B is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions in aid we spend each year around the world Feeding, clothing and giving medical aid to folks and countries less fortunate. You will find NO other country in the world more sympethetic to others than AMERICANS and AMERICA. Why The Hell do you think the world looks to Us every time theres a crisis? Because WE provide Most of the aid in the world. Fact is Fact and this one you cant dispute. IF the left gets its way with Trying to ban tobaco, we are going to be in bad shape in this country, not only will we suffer, but the countries that recieve our aid will suffer. The Anti's never think of that aspect, they just want to control every aspect of our lives. Im scared as hell of a far left liberal getting in office. A leftist is fine, as long as theres no far left influences.Bertster7 wrote:
Even? You think $80bn a year in Israeli funding by the US can be matched by anyone else - Thats about the same as the increase in US defence expenditure since war on Afghanistan and Iraq. Why do you think the Lebanese and Palestinans aren't bombing the Israelis with F-18s or more likely Mig-29s which if they had that sort of defence budget they would be. They don't have anything like the resources the Israelis have, which is why they resort to cheap rocket attacks with no guidance systems, suicide bombers and RPGs. If they could lauch sophisticated attacks to take out Israeli infrastructure I'm sure they would.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
We dont have to fund them, Syria and Iran and NK and possibly some soviet funding is available. Heck, some of the weapons are from the US anyways. So i say its even.HM1{N} wrote:
OK, so I say we fund Lebanon and Palestine the same way, mith money, weapons and aid, to even the balance of power...
I'd be careful about all the money being pumped into Israel if I were American - purely because the money could be put to much better use domestically - or there are a lot of REAL 3rd world countries that could really use that money to deal with famine, drought etc.
Its just a fact also, Iran is behind this current conflict, Syria, Iran, and the lebonese Govt should be sanctioned out the wazoo, But as you seen with saddam, The UN is nothing but a puppet orginazation that cant even enforce santions in place already. the UN Looks out for everyone But The USA. Hell, The syrian Govt has already Blackmailed the UN into not sending a high level deligation to negotiate a cease fire.
Might i suggest you run for a position in the UN, you seem to know so much about most countries from the news and books. You might just be an asset to the puppets of France, germany and Russia.. Sorry, but your avitar says fair and balanced? Seems you have made up your mind long ago about Isrel. Evil Evil Isrel!!! Am I right?CameronPoe wrote:
That would be off-topic but I'm sure you can guess. Starts with an I ends with a Q. You can check up the 'For people who believe things are going badly in Iraq' thread where I have a lengthy exchange with Darth_Fleder.|AIA| DAS wrote:
Yes to be sure... They put a terrorist organization in power, cause their leader of the other terrorist party, the PLO, died.CameronPoe wrote:
That is untrue. I support the American people but I abhorr their government with a seething passion. The election of Hamas was a protest vote against the corruption of Fatah, as well as being just pure desperation with the lack of progress with Israel under moderate leadership.
Just what do you 'abhorr with a seething passion' about the Americans Government? *Hears Flames rumbling in the distance*
For the record - I do believe in Palestinians violent rebelling against Israeli military targets while the state of Israel remains intransigently oppressive and continues to steal their land and operate outside of international law. I don't condone killing Israeli civilians however.
PS I view Kadima/Likud as 'state terrorist' parties.
So Kadima's policy of removing Jewish settlements from Palestenian territories and building a wall to keep Jewish settlers inside their own borders constitues terrorism?CameronPoe wrote:
That would be off-topic but I'm sure you can guess. Starts with an I ends with a Q. You can check up the 'For people who believe things are going badly in Iraq' thread where I have a lengthy exchange with Darth_Fleder.|AIA| DAS wrote:
Yes to be sure... They put a terrorist organization in power, cause their leader of the other terrorist party, the PLO, died.CameronPoe wrote:
That is untrue. I support the American people but I abhorr their government with a seething passion. The election of Hamas was a protest vote against the corruption of Fatah, as well as being just pure desperation with the lack of progress with Israel under moderate leadership.
Just what do you 'abhorr with a seething passion' about the Americans Government? *Hears Flames rumbling in the distance*
For the record - I do believe in Palestinians violent rebelling against Israeli military targets while the state of Israel remains intransigently oppressive and continues to steal their land and operate outside of international law. I don't condone killing Israeli civilians however.
PS I view Kadima/Likud as 'state terrorist' parties.
Sorry M8 but I would think you would support that.
As far as Iraq goes, Every terrorist planting an IED in that country is from another arab country, not Iraq. The Iraqis want freedom, when the Americans think they are ready to protect and govern themselves, I'm sure they will leave.
/sarcasm
OH Those arrogant bastards...How dare they liberate that country from that peaceful genocidal dictatorship.
im getting sick of the fucked up figures. 84B in US aid since the creation of Israel, not 80 billion annual. 1.5Billion annually.
increased to 2.5 billion for 2007
increased to 2.5 billion for 2007
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-07-20 09:47:57)
it already was here?
http://www.israel-un.org/sec_council/60 … ly2006.htm
http://www.israel-un.org/sec_council/60 … ly2006.htm
Last edited by Lisik (2006-07-20 09:55:56)
This isn't an Iraq thread - read the thread I referred you to if you want my views instead of pre-supposing them.|AIA| DAS wrote:
So Kadima's policy of removing Jewish settlements from Palestenian territories and building a wall to keep Jewish settlers inside their own borders constitues terrorism?CameronPoe wrote:
That would be off-topic but I'm sure you can guess. Starts with an I ends with a Q. You can check up the 'For people who believe things are going badly in Iraq' thread where I have a lengthy exchange with Darth_Fleder.|AIA| DAS wrote:
Yes to be sure... They put a terrorist organization in power, cause their leader of the other terrorist party, the PLO, died.
Just what do you 'abhorr with a seething passion' about the Americans Government? *Hears Flames rumbling in the distance*
For the record - I do believe in Palestinians violent rebelling against Israeli military targets while the state of Israel remains intransigently oppressive and continues to steal their land and operate outside of international law. I don't condone killing Israeli civilians however.
PS I view Kadima/Likud as 'state terrorist' parties.
Sorry M8 but I would think you would support that.
As far as Iraq goes, Every terrorist planting an IED in that country is from another arab country, not Iraq. The Iraqis want freedom, when the Americans think they are ready to protect and govern themselves, I'm sure they will leave.
/sarcasm
OH Those arrogant bastards...How dare they liberate that country from that peaceful genocidal dictatorship.
Kadima's leader that never was, Ariel Sharon, is a war criminal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra-Shat … cre#Events
Building a wall that is largely inside the 1948 green line further annexing more Palestinian land is the policy of Kadima. Their stance is also that the settlements of Ariel and Ma'ale Adumim and various other settlements would not be removed - eternal parts of Israel in their words - along with Palestinian East Jerusalem. I'm afraid I'm not gonna 'support' such land grabs. The fact the wall intends to curve around these settlements effectively annexes a further 10% or so of the west bank. It's like the Americans sending all the Navahos to Bosque Redondo - how can the Palestinians possibly be self-sufficient and have a viable state.
PS For the record I would find it amazing if you could state with absolute certainty that every IED in Iraq is placed by someone who isn't Iraqi. LOL