well the can push from south to north, germany wouldve taken caucases and japan takes shinkang, then japan makes a move to go to mainland russia by either going west to india then meeting up w/ german forces at caucases or just gone north.
Poll
If the US hadn't entered WWII
| Europe would be speaking German | 33% | 33% - 67 | ||||
| Europe would be speaking Russian | 15% | 15% - 31 | ||||
| USSR would have liberated Europe | 16% | 16% - 33 | ||||
| World would be speaking German (eventually) | 15% | 15% - 31 | ||||
| World would be speaking Russian (eventually) | 3% | 3% - 6 | ||||
| Germany would share world with Japan | 8% | 8% - 17 | ||||
| Russia would share world with Japan | 1% | 1% - 3 | ||||
| World would be speaking Japanese | 5% | 5% - 10 | ||||
| Total: 198 | ||||||
Yeah me too, but not a bad topic anyways.kr@cker wrote:
And dammit, I thought there was a typo and this was about nintendo Wii
just like stalin liberated poland right
yeshGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
just like stalin liberated poland right
What's the Haji thing in your sig slinger? A reference to the sandbox?
haji means iraqi or generally arabs.kr@cker wrote:
What's the Haji thing in your sig slinger? A reference to the sandbox?
Detonators for IED's. Garage door openers, RC remotes, long ass landlines but mostly cell phones. we pulled over a suspicious van one time and there were two guys in there with a box of garage door openers. Tell me, Why the fuck was Haji carrying a box of garage door openers when I had not seen a single garage in my time over there. We zip tied them, threw them in the back of the track and brought them to the TOC. I was happy because my patrol was about rapped up. But, we only arrested the passenger and the driver recieved a two bradley escort back to his van which was still there like 3 hours later. whens the last time you hear about a cop taking you back to your car after youve been arrested?kr@cker wrote:
What's the Haji thing in your sig slinger? A reference to the sandbox?
Hitlers biggest mistake going to Russia. The patriotism of Russian people was the turning point of that war. If Us didn't intervene, I'd say war would of lasted couple more years but USSR would still come out on the top. Industrial strength of pre-war war of soviet union was growing but it was not as strong as US. Russia was still recovering from civil war, plus Stalins repressions was not helping other. Good example movie "Enemies at the gate". My grandfather was there on Russian side, After watching that movie he told me that movie didn't cover entire horror that he saw there. I'm a slow typer so I would be here all night typing what he told me, but it's enough to make your hair stand up on your back. Russian creed is: "You are all welcome here, but if you come with a sward, you will die by a sward"
BTW D-day didn't happened after Red Army was already fighting in Eastern Europe. Plus they were helping Chinese to fight Japan occupation.
BTW D-day didn't happened after Red Army was already fighting in Eastern Europe. Plus they were helping Chinese to fight Japan occupation.
it is believed that the Soviet Union was planning on a pre-emptive attack on Germany after the non-agression was to expire.
While the fall of Germany would likely have come w/o the US assistance (Hitler never played Risk as a kid), it certainly hastened the inevitable in Europe and gave them no position from which to negotiate surrendering terms. Thus they were confined to where they were when it started rather than being allowed to keep their "Lebensraum" as a price for peace so to speak.
We pretty much handled Japan on our own ... but we were really pissed. To quote Yamomoto, "I fear all we have done is managed to awaken a sleeping giant" We were happily enjoying isolationism at that time. A time I think we should return to ... but I digress.
We pretty much handled Japan on our own ... but we were really pissed. To quote Yamomoto, "I fear all we have done is managed to awaken a sleeping giant" We were happily enjoying isolationism at that time. A time I think we should return to ... but I digress.
Last edited by puckmercury (2006-07-10 19:21:32)
i doubt it. stalin was a man of word and trust (to other politicions, not the russian ppl). but could be possible, coz russia and germany were kinda allies thenGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
it is believed that the Soviet Union was planning on a pre-emptive attack on Germany after the non-agression was to expire.
The reason the US went to war was because of Japan. Let's say Japan didn't attack the US then Japan wouldn't be a factor in the Pacific. Because to gain any more land they had to threaten US interests and the US wasn't going to allow that (The Philippines).
Also, the reason Germany broke the Mutal Peace Agreement with Russia (USSR) is because Hitler thought he could get Japan to help him with Russia, which Japan didn't. However, in our scenario Japan isn't a factor, thus Hitler wouldn't have invaded Russia until he had the rest of Europe firmly under his control.
We also have to take into consideration that Hitler didn't plan Britian entering the war until 1946, when the German navy would be at full strength. But since Britian did enter the war, if Germany played their cards right and defeated Britian (that would be no small feat, probably several years of fighting). Then the German navy would be ready, maybe to help in invasions of northern Russia.
However, since there was this long wait to invade Russia, the Russian military might've re-strengthen itself after Stalin's purges. Although, it can't be said for certain. Or the other situation in which Stalin has another one of his purges and the USSR falls in itself. We can't be sure because it never happens. I believe that the military would've built itself back up and Stalin fearing its power would've had another purge which would've weakened it and he would've been killed. Another leader taking over for him.
Hmm... so who would win if the US didn't get involved? No one would win. It would probably end with Germany in control of a lot of land but would find it very hard to control and eventually it would've crumbled. Probably several years down the road, but within a life time.
Europe would be completely chaotic and the US would still be isolationists. In other words, we would be right back where we started. So, some other country would rise to power and challenge "world peace."
Interesting isn't it.
Note to future conquers, it is best to intergrate your culture into the conquered lands instead of forcing it upon them. Also, use what ever new technology you find there. The Romans were very good at doing this when they were a younger empire. Of course, even they made some bad mistakes.
Also, the reason Germany broke the Mutal Peace Agreement with Russia (USSR) is because Hitler thought he could get Japan to help him with Russia, which Japan didn't. However, in our scenario Japan isn't a factor, thus Hitler wouldn't have invaded Russia until he had the rest of Europe firmly under his control.
We also have to take into consideration that Hitler didn't plan Britian entering the war until 1946, when the German navy would be at full strength. But since Britian did enter the war, if Germany played their cards right and defeated Britian (that would be no small feat, probably several years of fighting). Then the German navy would be ready, maybe to help in invasions of northern Russia.
However, since there was this long wait to invade Russia, the Russian military might've re-strengthen itself after Stalin's purges. Although, it can't be said for certain. Or the other situation in which Stalin has another one of his purges and the USSR falls in itself. We can't be sure because it never happens. I believe that the military would've built itself back up and Stalin fearing its power would've had another purge which would've weakened it and he would've been killed. Another leader taking over for him.
Hmm... so who would win if the US didn't get involved? No one would win. It would probably end with Germany in control of a lot of land but would find it very hard to control and eventually it would've crumbled. Probably several years down the road, but within a life time.
Europe would be completely chaotic and the US would still be isolationists. In other words, we would be right back where we started. So, some other country would rise to power and challenge "world peace."
Interesting isn't it.
Note to future conquers, it is best to intergrate your culture into the conquered lands instead of forcing it upon them. Also, use what ever new technology you find there. The Romans were very good at doing this when they were a younger empire. Of course, even they made some bad mistakes.
No, if you havent noticed we havent had a WW for almost 61 years scince we became non isolationist. Of course that is partly due to MAD between countries with WMDs.
its a theory, its got strong evidence. but no definitive proof.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i doubt it. stalin was a man of word and trust (to other politicions, not the russian ppl). but could be possible, coz russia and germany were kinda allies thenGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
it is believed that the Soviet Union was planning on a pre-emptive attack on Germany after the non-agression was to expire.
Dirty Little Secrets of WW2 by, I forget the authors name
US might have gone to war even if japan didnt do pearl harbour...
the german U-boats have been preying on american supply ships. that pissed off the US quite a lot
the german U-boats have been preying on american supply ships. that pissed off the US quite a lot
Plus our prez at the time was dying to go to war. Lend/Lease act anyone?? For those of you unfamiliar, we "left" tanks, and other provisions on the east coast. And, if a British ship were to come up and ship them off, eh ... IOU.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
US might have gone to war even if japan didnt do pearl harbour...
the german U-boats have been preying on american supply ships. that pissed off the US quite a lot
Still, Japan would be out of the equation. Although I do think they made a mistake by taking out our battleships, it forced the US to use their carriers and thus proved that they are the future.
The US would still be isolationists if we didn't enter the war. There would be no reason for the US not to be.
Yeah, we might've been mad enough just due to the U-boats to declare on Germany. But Japan wasn't really threatening us yet. If that happened Germany would've been screwed very quickly, with US's full industrial might and power directed at them... it wouldn't have been a pretty sight. Say, we develope the same planes and stuff. B-29s bombing Berlin? Their fighters have trouble flying that high.
Hmm... question, let's say Germany wins and Italy is still around. What would happen then? Italy viewed Germany as the little brother.
The US would still be isolationists if we didn't enter the war. There would be no reason for the US not to be.
Yeah, we might've been mad enough just due to the U-boats to declare on Germany. But Japan wasn't really threatening us yet. If that happened Germany would've been screwed very quickly, with US's full industrial might and power directed at them... it wouldn't have been a pretty sight. Say, we develope the same planes and stuff. B-29s bombing Berlin? Their fighters have trouble flying that high.
Hmm... question, let's say Germany wins and Italy is still around. What would happen then? Italy viewed Germany as the little brother.
And in all of this discussion the A bomb factor has been left out.......
If the yanks werent in the stoush, who would have produced and used the first WMD?
I do recall reading some interesting stuff on the state of military research towards the end of the war.
If the yanks werent in the stoush, who would have produced and used the first WMD?
I do recall reading some interesting stuff on the state of military research towards the end of the war.
are we seriously going back to WWII again?
and be shot down by the luffwattfe while ur delivering ur bomb? if america didnt gve u supplies u would have been fuckedvedds wrote:
And in all of this discussion the A bomb factor has been left out.......
If the yanks werent in the stoush, who would have produced and used the first WMD?
I do recall reading some interesting stuff on the state of military research towards the end of the war.
Sorry mate, I'm struggling to understand what point you make by that? (personally I'm from NZ ) but i was asking who was closest to the bomb. From my recollection the Nazis were working on an atomic programme that would have been close to fruition(late 40s) (I do believe its where the soviets acquired their Nuclear tech) but it was ages ago i was reading about it so i didn't want to put that out there in case my memory is flawed. ( also i cant be bothered with some of the mindless flaming that goes on)cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
and be shot down by the luffwattfe while ur delivering ur bomb? if america didnt gve u supplies u would have been fuckedvedds wrote:
And in all of this discussion the A bomb factor has been left out.......
If the yanks weren't in the stoush, who would have produced and used the first WMD?
I do recall reading some interesting stuff on the state of military research towards the end of the war.
The one thing i can assure you is that "we" could never have developed the bomb, these days our Air force be trying to deliver it in an old van or by UPS. (Bring Back the Skyhawks!!!)
That's what I thought, but then I remember you saying that in one of your pics you thought you looked like Haji. You should get a neru jacket, and a turban with a ruby thing in it for halloween. My friend just bleached my head, maybe I'll be Johnny Quest.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Detonators for IED's. Garage door openers, RC remotes, long ass landlines but mostly cell phones. we pulled over a suspicious van one time and there were two guys in there with a box of garage door openers. Tell me, Why the fuck was Haji carrying a box of garage door openers when I had not seen a single garage in my time over there. We zip tied them, threw them in the back of the track and brought them to the TOC. I was happy because my patrol was about rapped up. But, we only arrested the passenger and the driver recieved a two bradley escort back to his van which was still there like 3 hours later. whens the last time you hear about a cop taking you back to your car after youve been arrested?kr@cker wrote:
What's the Haji thing in your sig slinger? A reference to the sandbox?
I think the invasion of Soviet Union had more to do German need of oil than an attempt to drag Japan into action. Why was the pitched battle at Stalingrad anyway? Why did Hitler send army south, and not to Moscow? Because they needed oil, and were trying to get to Ukraine/Baku region. They never achieved the goal.Stags wrote:
Also, the reason Germany broke the Mutal Peace Agreement with Russia (USSR) is because Hitler thought he could get Japan to help him with Russia, which Japan didn't. However, in our scenario Japan isn't a factor, thus Hitler wouldn't have invaded Russia until he had the rest of Europe firmly under his control.
Hitler didn't open a two-front war out of foolishness or arrogance, he did it out of desperation.
The Germans would have had an easier time without Patton and the rest of the US riding up their collective asses. As it is, the Soviets were sort of on their last leg by the end of WW2. It doesn't matter how many men you have if you can't keep them in arms and equipment. Even the modern Chinese know this.Bubbalo wrote:
Alright, who voted German and didn't pipe up? C'mon, it's not like we can neg you
But one way or another, Europe would have likely sustained much heavier damage from longer years of fighting if the US did not help.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-10 22:23:02)
No they where not. Stalin was so naive to believe in Non-Aggression pack with Germany, that they even would not put Border forces on alert. Not even when his personal spy, that he appointed himself told him on a date, time and places of invasion. There was a story about garrison on the border with Poland, fought Germans with bar hand for about two weeks after invasion started. We knew that USSR will be in war, just didn't expected to be so soon.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
it is believed that the Soviet Union was planning on a pre-emptive attack on Germany after the non-aggression was to expire.