Good lord - 1.7 to 4 million US casualties, 5 to 10 million Japanese.DesertFox423 wrote:
No way Japan would have surrendered "a few weeks later". Japan wasn't going down without a fight since it was dishonorable for them to surrender. They needed to be sent a message that continuing the war would be far too costly. If the atomic option was not used, a costly invasion of Japan would have to take place, which would create a far higher amount of casualties than caused by those atomic weapons. The military already was already planning a course of action if the nukes weren't used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_DownfallSpumantiii wrote:
but it wouldn't have been the same if USA had used conventional bombings, Japan would have surrendered maybe a few weeks later, probably with higher civilian losses, but without having dropped the 2 nukes. Nuclear weapons do stand alone, don't you agree
This thread makes me laugh... silly people...
Please say why? I'm just curious to others reasoning.SiMSaM16 wrote:
This thread makes me laugh... silly people...
Russia lost over 20 million I think... not sure. China losses... well we don't know because well of all the carnage that Japan brought to them.
The US although with our 2 uses of WMD have killed more people and quicker than has ever been seen before and in all hope will never be seen again. We don't use them. Example Iraq/Iran War Saddam used gas against Iran killing thousands. WWI Germany used mustard gas against the Allies killing thousands, Allies retailed with the same gas killing thousands (maybe total millions).
I could think of so many more examples... oh boy. Japan WWII against China. Germany WWII concentration camps.
If you want to hear more just post.
You all know the joke don't you?
Q: How did the USA know that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
A: They kept copies of the receipts!
Q: How did the USA know that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
A: They kept copies of the receipts!
Last edited by Gulf_War_Syndrome (2006-07-11 01:20:49)
Yawn lets all hate america yawn get over your insecurities and the fact you hate yourself for looking up to a greater country. yawn these threads are getting old yawn
Who's living in a dream world? I got my facts from finnish foreign ministrys web site. That article claerly stated that ALL of that 1,1 trillion has come from other countries, not a single cent from american citizens or investment banks. Go on and sweep every facts you don't like under that "anti-american bs carpet". But when you do so, don't say I'm the one living in a fantasy world.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Hey pekkaA hows the weather over there in fantasy land?PekkaA wrote:
Here's couple of facts regarding your great economy. Since 2000 election, usa's national debt has increased over 1,1 trillion dollars and ALL of that money has come from foreign investors. This means that at the moment 54% of national fund is in foreign ownership. If your government keeps up same good work, you've soon sold your country to us. wink
I'll tell you how it over here in reality .. kinda cloudy with a slight chance of rain
The American national debt is money America owes HERSELF they are loans taken from federal banks of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The rest of the world owes America billions and America doesn't owe any foreign nations shit!..
I love it when folks who don't have a fucking clue chime in.. Take an economics class and you'll find that the prime indicator of economic strength is GDP , per capita and total. America is strongest in BOTH and only getting stronger day by day. Keep believe the anti American bullshit you read about the US declining.. its the EXACT opposite were stronger than ever and only getting stronger.
America is also the LEAST dependant on foreign investments and import/export..
P.S. bubbalo is a jackass if EVER in combat you don't surrender you are in the fight. There is NOTHING dishonorable about shooting a fleeing soldier. But then Bubbalo is just a preteen on his mommy's computer looking to hate on America at every chance.
P.P.S. Bermuda is technically the highest per capita GDP but the only countries that outdo USA's per capita gdp are low popualtion countries.. they couldnt keep that up with 300 million people *see China*
Your private sectors debt is 150% of your GDP and private savings rate 0%. Therefore only way is to loan money abroad. At the moment usas net debt is 46% of your GDP and 50% of that money has come from Asian central banks (China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia and Taiwan). And there are estimates that usa will borrow 75% of world's savings.
So stop reading News of the world and try New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Forbes Magazine if you want to seriously debate about economics. Otherwise, please put your head back to bush.
Technically:PekkaA wrote:
Who's living in a dream world? I got my facts from finnish foreign ministrys web site. That article claerly stated that ALL of that 1,1 trillion has come from other countries, not a single cent from american citizens or investment banks. Go on and sweep every facts you don't like under that "anti-american bs carpet". But when you do so, don't say I'm the one living in a fantasy world.ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Hey pekkaA hows the weather over there in fantasy land?PekkaA wrote:
Here's couple of facts regarding your great economy. Since 2000 election, usa's national debt has increased over 1,1 trillion dollars and ALL of that money has come from foreign investors. This means that at the moment 54% of national fund is in foreign ownership. If your government keeps up same good work, you've soon sold your country to us. wink
I'll tell you how it over here in reality .. kinda cloudy with a slight chance of rain
The American national debt is money America owes HERSELF they are loans taken from federal banks of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The rest of the world owes America billions and America doesn't owe any foreign nations shit!..
I love it when folks who don't have a fucking clue chime in.. Take an economics class and you'll find that the prime indicator of economic strength is GDP , per capita and total. America is strongest in BOTH and only getting stronger day by day. Keep believe the anti American bullshit you read about the US declining.. its the EXACT opposite were stronger than ever and only getting stronger.
America is also the LEAST dependant on foreign investments and import/export..
P.S. bubbalo is a jackass if EVER in combat you don't surrender you are in the fight. There is NOTHING dishonorable about shooting a fleeing soldier. But then Bubbalo is just a preteen on his mommy's computer looking to hate on America at every chance.
P.P.S. Bermuda is technically the highest per capita GDP but the only countries that outdo USA's per capita gdp are low popualtion countries.. they couldnt keep that up with 300 million people *see China*
Your private sectors debt is 150% of your GDP and private savings rate 0%. Therefore only way is to loan money abroad. At the moment usas net debt is 46% of your GDP and 50% of that money has come from Asian central banks (China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia and Taiwan). And there are estimates that usa will borrow 75% of world's savings.
So stop reading News of the world and try New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Forbes Magazine if you want to seriously debate about economics. Otherwise, please put your head back to bush.
2004, foreigners held 44% of federal debt held by the public. [5] About 64% of that 44% was held by the central banks of other countries.
So thats is 28% of our federal debt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._publi … _U.S._debt
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._publi … f_the_debt
If we would have stayed out of the WW like we should have since all of you guys in the EU think your so good with out us the national debt woulndt be so bad.
So give us reparations....for saving you....::eyes:: France
Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-11 06:44:00)
does anyone else enjoy the cleansing effects of a high fiber diet as much as I do?
Reasonable people can disagree what they knew and what they didn't know. But I think the following assumptions are reasonable.Pug wrote:
My two cents:
-I believe the US knew the ramifications of dropping the bomb. At the time there was a "invade" or "drop the a-bomb" analysis. Someone thought the a-bomb would be better. I sure wouldn't want to be involved with approving that decision. I think it was the right decision - what I've read said it would have been worse to invade Japan for the Japanese than bombing.
-Weapons kill quickly. Agent Orange doesn't kill quickly = not a weapon. Misused? Yep - sprayed too much but it wasn't meant to kill people.
Here are some things the scientists might have known, but the politicians didn't have full understanding of (and probably didn't go out of their way to get it):
- Destructive power
- Radioactive Fallout
- Duration of Radioactivity
Here are some things nobody knew about:
- Political Consequences of Nuclear Weapons (i.e. mad dash for everyone to get them)
- Nuclear Winter
- Potential for extinction
All the politicians knew was that it made a REALLY big bang, and it might make the area dangerous for a while. They didn't have the full understanding we have now.
I doubt they would have surrendered. We had been bombing the piss out of them with conventional bombing runs for years, and FAR more people had already been killed by these raids than by both of the atomic weapons combined. Research shows that in the cases of both Japan and Germany conventional bombing only stiffened the resolve of the populace: i.e. carpet bombing failed.Spumantiii wrote:
but it wouldn't have been the same if USA had used conventional bombings, Japan would have surrendered maybe a few weeks later, probably with higher civilian losses, but without having dropped the 2 nukes...
Many people have claimed Iraq got weapons from the US, but it isn't so. Anyone who has been there knows ALL of their military hardware was Warsaw Pact stuff. So...another hearsay anti-American comment borne of ignorance.Gulf_War_Syndrome wrote:
You all know the joke don't you?
Q: How did the USA know that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
A: They kept copies of the receipts!
yeah it was MIG-29's they just found buried in the desert, not f-15's
Man, your stats are two years old...Your debt is increasing 1.7 billion dollars per day. WWII increased your debt as much as your current adminstration does in couple of weeks.Colfax wrote:
2004, foreigners held 44% of federal debt held by the public. [5] About 64% of that 44% was held by the central banks of other countries.
So thats is 28% of our federal debt.
If we would have stayed out of the WW like we should have since all of you guys in the EU think your so good with out us the national debt woulndt be so bad.
Are you really that ignorant? Newsweek article Guardian article. I could keep posting pages of history about what happened in gulf area during 80s. If you have to post something that ridiculous, use at least some schoolboys website as an evidence.whittsend wrote:
Many people have claimed Iraq got weapons from the US, but it isn't so. Anyone who has been there knows ALL of their military hardware was Warsaw Pact stuff. So...another hearsay anti-American comment borne of ignorance.
If we are gonna do this whole debt thing lets just get it out in the open.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac … 9rank.html
1 World $ 38,540,000,000,000
2 United States $ 8,837,000,000,000
3 United Kingdom $ 7,107,000,000,000
4 Germany $ 3,626,000,000,000
5 France $ 2,826,000,000,000
6 Italy $ 1,682,000,000,000
7 Netherlands $ 1,645,000,000,000
8 Japan $ 1,545,000,000,000
9 Spain $ 1,249,000,000,000
10 Ireland $ 1,049,000,000,000
Everyone is in debt.
Are we the highest yes. But we have 300 million people in this country compare that to the UK with approx 60 million and they are right there with us
Or how about Finland with 5,231,372 (July 2006 est.) you have 200 billion in debt. If you had the population of the U.S. you'd be 60x larger then you are now. Think what your debt would be then. On top of that the U.S. supports wars, disaster relief, and so much more.
India and China do not count in these equations. They are just arriving into the 21 century (if they are even there yet)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac … 9rank.html
1 World $ 38,540,000,000,000
2 United States $ 8,837,000,000,000
3 United Kingdom $ 7,107,000,000,000
4 Germany $ 3,626,000,000,000
5 France $ 2,826,000,000,000
6 Italy $ 1,682,000,000,000
7 Netherlands $ 1,645,000,000,000
8 Japan $ 1,545,000,000,000
9 Spain $ 1,249,000,000,000
10 Ireland $ 1,049,000,000,000
Everyone is in debt.
Are we the highest yes. But we have 300 million people in this country compare that to the UK with approx 60 million and they are right there with us
Or how about Finland with 5,231,372 (July 2006 est.) you have 200 billion in debt. If you had the population of the U.S. you'd be 60x larger then you are now. Think what your debt would be then. On top of that the U.S. supports wars, disaster relief, and so much more.
India and China do not count in these equations. They are just arriving into the 21 century (if they are even there yet)
Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-11 07:40:33)
Is it just me or are you guys noticing that non-Americans (and even some Americans) always post threads about the evil USA? Every day they pick a random topic to bash the US. One day, it's all about how we are imperialistic (or is it empirialistic?) invaders by taking out Saddam. Another day, it's about how we're jumping at the chance for war but won't give aid to 3rd world countries. Another day, we have WMDs. Another day, we are the cause of terrorism around the world. Another day, we have too much debt. Another day, we're either rednecks or yankees (both of which appear evil in the eyes of a non-American). Another day, all of our soldiers are lumped into a group called criminals. Another day, we're obsessed with guns.
Can you guys just worry about yourself for a change and fix your own country instead of worrying about ours?
America rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you guys just worry about yourself for a change and fix your own country instead of worrying about ours?
America rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or how about Finland with 5,231,372 (July 2006 est.) you have 200 billion in debt. If you had the population of the U.S. you'd be 60x larger then you are now. Think what your debt would be then. On top of that the U.S. supports wars, disaster relief, and so much more.
Our natilonal debt is 60 billion euros, which is 38,7% of our GDP. And it's been decreasing for last decade. Shouldn't you think if you really can afford those wars.
Our natilonal debt is 60 billion euros, which is 38,7% of our GDP. And it's been decreasing for last decade. Shouldn't you think if you really can afford those wars.
if the US didnt help in Europe then you really think if hitler won he would leave you Americans alone?
blah blah blah debt...who the hell is owed all the money if everyones on debt :s
blah blah blah debt...who the hell is owed all the money if everyones on debt :s
and when was the last time an american started a post and called it "Borneo suxxorz" asid from being in complete sarcasm, for someone that tries to tell us we're not as important as we think, you sure can't stop talking about usTheEqualizer wrote:
Is it just me or are you guys noticing that non-Americans (and even some Americans) always post threads about the evil USA? Every day they pick a random topic to bash the US. One day, it's all about how we are imperialistic (or is it empirialistic?) invaders by taking out Saddam. Another day, it's about how we're jumping at the chance for war but won't give aid to 3rd world countries. Another day, we have WMDs. Another day, we are the cause of terrorism around the world. Another day, we have too much debt. Another day, we're either rednecks or yankees (both of which appear evil in the eyes of a non-American). Another day, all of our soldiers are lumped into a group called criminals. Another day, we're obsessed with guns.
Can you guys just worry about yourself for a change and fix your own country instead of worrying about ours?
America rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For a thousandth time: If only you'd do like your last sentence says, even this forum might be a bit more peaceful.TheEqualizer wrote:
Is it just me or are you guys noticing that non-Americans (and even some Americans) always post threads about the evil USA? Every day they pick a random topic to bash the US. One day, it's all about how we are imperialistic (or is it empirialistic?) invaders by taking out Saddam. Another day, it's about how we're jumping at the chance for war but won't give aid to 3rd world countries. Another day, we have WMDs. Another day, we are the cause of terrorism around the world. Another day, we have too much debt. Another day, we're either rednecks or yankees (both of which appear evil in the eyes of a non-American). Another day, all of our soldiers are lumped into a group called criminals. Another day, we're obsessed with guns.
Can you guys just worry about yourself for a change and fix your own country instead of worrying about ours?
America rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
edit. I meant second last.
Last edited by PekkaA (2006-07-11 07:58:45)
That's the problem. One day we're not doing enough to help around the world and another day we're doing too much. It's a lose-lose situation.
23 Finland $ 211,700,000,000 30 June 2005
I speak dollars. That woud be 200+ billion dollars. thats from last year but im sure its only gone up or down a billion or so.
This is external debt:
External debt (or foreign debt) is that part of the government debt of a country which is owed to creditors outside the country. This debt includes money owed to private commercial banks, other governments, or international financial institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.
My source is credible. Look for yourself
I speak dollars. That woud be 200+ billion dollars. thats from last year but im sure its only gone up or down a billion or so.
This is external debt:
External debt (or foreign debt) is that part of the government debt of a country which is owed to creditors outside the country. This debt includes money owed to private commercial banks, other governments, or international financial institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.
My source is credible. Look for yourself
Hitler would not have brought the war to us. It would have been a logistical nightmare.Widjerd wrote:
if the US didnt help in Europe then you really think if hitler won he would leave you Americans alone?
blah blah blah debt...who the hell is owed all the money if everyones on debt :s
They would never make it across the atlantic. Our navy would destroy the transports. And they'd have to go through russia, then alaska, then canada. That would have been funny just to watch them try. Especially with the Scorch earth policy of that time.
Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-11 08:25:17)
So how on earth you got here?Colfax wrote:
Hitler would not have brought the war to us. It would have been a logistical nightmare.Widjerd wrote:
if the US didnt help in Europe then you really think if hitler won he would leave you Americans alone?
blah blah blah debt...who the hell is owed all the money if everyones on debt :s
Show me your source. I rely on our Department of the Treasury.Colfax wrote:
23 Finland $ 211,700,000,000 30 June 2005
I speak dollars. That woud be 200+ billion dollars. thats from last year but im sure its only gone up or down a billion or so.
This is external debt:
External debt (or foreign debt) is that part of the government debt of a country which is owed to creditors outside the country. This debt includes money owed to private commercial banks, other governments, or international financial institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.
My source is credible. Look for yourself
even if colfax was using euros, you keep harping about how much more the euro is worth, which would actually make your debt higher
First of all, I said HARDWARE. Second, the chemicals provided were DUAL USE. Do you know what that means? We are providing chemicals of that type to countries around the world all the time, and so is every other industrial country. Does it suck? Sure, but your righteous indignation is really a crock of shit as this is no surprise to anyone, and it is still going on today.PekkaA wrote:
Are you really that ignorant? Newsweek article Guardian article. I could keep posting pages of history about what happened in gulf area during 80s. If you have to post something that ridiculous, use at least some schoolboys website as an evidence.whittsend wrote:
Many people have claimed Iraq got weapons from the US, but it isn't so. Anyone who has been there knows ALL of their military hardware was Warsaw Pact stuff. So...another hearsay anti-American comment borne of ignorance.
I'm going to stand by my comment that no hardware was provided, and I will go so far as to say no overtly military supplies of any kind were provided. The Guardian claimed Anthrax was given and Reagan would do anything, but that is typical unsubstantiated Gaurdian drivel and I don't believe a word of it. You do believe it, I'm sure, but that comes as no surprise either; your standards for acceptance of facts are characteristically low, so long as they make the US look bad.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-07-11 08:33:44)