Poll

Which of the following two systems of government would you prefer?

Fascism32%32% - 30
Communism67%67% - 61
Total: 91
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7084|Bryan/College Station, TX
Fascism comes in good and bad. Much like there is an utopian version of Communism. While we would like to see a perfect Communism community, human nature unfortunately shows us that it's impossible. However a correctly run Fascist state can exist in the modern world. After all we are quickly moving to one with our "Democractic" government in the US. Slowly over time it will be a Fascist government where the people answer to the government not the other way around. When was the last time your opinions, if given to your rep. were actually listened and then brought forward in earnest to Congress? Our current form of election only showcases the end of the democratic process. Two candidates, essentially the same thing, representing big business and their own party's agendas. The people are silent in this representation while those in power are the rich and influential. Seems like a Fascist government to me.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
AAFCptKabbom
Member
+127|6898|WPB, FL. USA
C'mon and play fair.  Give us a real pole that has all choices and include "other not listed".
Very, very few people living in a democracy will touch this pole - play fair and not like a, uh, well, a bit either Communist/Fascist with only two choices

Kaboom.
spastic bullet
would like to know if you are on crack
+77|6781|vancouver
This poll reminds me of election time, except with a broader range of options.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7008
isnt there middle ground somewhere?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6796
Lads - the poll is a HYPOTHETICAL question and is asking you to choose the lesser of two evils....
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6789|Southeastern USA
thought it was a great "lesser of two evils" poll, done without leading the question at all, as opposed to some others,

ooh ooh, I got a poll too, the links in my sig, a ridiculous amount of views, but I'm short on posts, and no it's not the "Who gives a damn" one, though I should put that in there too.
zFeinT
Member
+35|6909
I'm going to be narrow here - in Nazi Germany the crime-rate (chiefly murder) was far below that in any other country that was involved in the war (Allied/Axis) - this is, of course, excluding any politically sanctioned killings.  Technology was on the rise and crime on the downfall.   Hey, lesser of two evils.  +1 vote for Fascism.

Last edited by zFeinT (2006-07-04 00:27:35)

Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6905|NT, like Mick Dundee

Communism.

Fascism leads to hate, hate leads to fear, fear leads to the dark side. Wiki's Fascism article, explains alot.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6891|USA
this poll is along the same lines as...........which do you prefer, burning to death or falling to death??
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6789|Southeastern USA
the wiki page is also preceded by 2 disclaimers concerning it's neutrality and accuracy, there article on communism also neatly glosses over the mass graves, KGB thought police and such, yet another reason wiki is a joke
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6796
Kr@cker's sig is distinctly unworkfriendly....
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6796
This may surprise you given that I am an outspoken centre-leftist. I believe in capitalism as long as it is heavily tempered by a strong sense of social conscience (and I deplore imperialism and violations of other nations' sovereignty). Having said that however - I would have to choose fascism over communism, as the lesser of two poor options (no extreme can ever be good because extremes always leave at least one section of society unhappy).

The fact of the matter is this:

Pure communism cannot circumvent the fact that human nature is largely dictated by the 'pleasure' principle and the 'survival of the fittest' principle. IMO, pure communism runs counter to these principles of human nature and counter to the advance of the human race due to the absence of incentives for adherents to put additional effort into their work (or indeed to work at all depending on the task). Subsistence living does not lend itself well to the kinds of technological advances and improvements in living standards that fascism has been shown to generate. At least in fascism, if one defers to the despot in command, you and the greater part of your compatriots will enjoy a higher standard of living than ye would enjoy under communism and ye would also benefit from the technological advances that make life easier (advances that would occur at an accelerated pace under fascism). In short fascism is the ruthless embodiment of self-improvement whereas communism would likely bring human progress to an abrupt halt.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-04 09:44:20)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6789|Southeastern USA
holy christ, poe and I are agreeing, let's establish a new state and call it Camerokr@ckatoa....

I can't find where i posted it but that's pretty much it, communism is an attempt to counter the very laws of nature
spastic bullet
would like to know if you are on crack
+77|6781|vancouver

CameronPoe wrote:

Pure communism cannot circumvent the fact that human nature is largely dictated by the 'pleasure' principle and the 'survival of the fittest' principle. IMO, pure communism runs counter to these principles of human nature and counter to the advance of the human race due to the absence of incentives for adherents to put additional effort into their work (or indeed to work at all depending on the task). Subsistence living does not lend itself well to the kinds of technological advances and improvements in living standards that fascism has been shown to generate. At least in fascism, if one defers to the despot in command, you and the greater part of your compatriots will enjoy a higher standard of living than ye would enjoy under communism and ye would also benefit from the technological advances that make life easier (advances that would occur at an accelerated pace under fascism). In short fascism is the ruthless embodiment of self-improvement whereas communism would likely bring human progress to an abrupt halt.
As much as I am loathe to defend communism, much less the regimes that carried the name, this is a bunch of patent nonsense.  I will play devil's advocate for what the majority seems to consider boonga boonga to fascism's death by boonga boonga... 

Neither system inherently favours scientific advancement.  But for the sake of argument, did a fascist nation build and deploy the world's first satellite?  And put the first man in space?  And woman?  And dog?    Refractive eye surgery was first perfected in the USSR (and made available for free!).  There are other examples, but you get my point.  Neither system inherently favours scientific advancement.

The human nature argument is more important, since it seems so prevalent in countries heavily affected by Cold War-era propaganda.  Human nature is complex.  To say it all comes down to "survival of the fittest" or the "pleasure principle" is to basically ignore what gave our species the edge over far superior predators in Africa millions of years ago.  Humanity owes its dominance of the planet to communication and cooperation.

There are many other examples, but this is already getting long so I'll just mention two other things: Firstly, Darwin himself understood that "survival of the fittest" doesn't tell the whole story.  This doesn't either, but it's another piece of the puzzle, and it too has analogous relevance to "human nature".  Secondly, Squad of 5 > 5 Lone Wolves.  Nuff said.

And before anybody starts, I'm no more a communist than CameronPoe is a fascist.  Just looking to balance his points is all. 
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

Tyferra wrote:

Marxist Communism does work, it's only flaw is that it leaves the way open for someone to take absoloute power, which so far in history, has always happened.

It's more or less a Utopian ideology, which means it relys on all people living in harmony etc. Everyone knows human nature is too fucked for that to ever work.
Yes, being a commie is good. If not exploited and turned into a Totalitarian gov, communism only works in already industrialized nations like australia, great britain, united states, germany etc.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Mackaronen
Member
+18|6877|Uppland, Sweden
Fascism!! Not that i like that choise at all but the human being is too egoistic for communism to work. Every try yet to bring communism in to this world has ended in fiasco.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6905|NT, like Mick Dundee

"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."

Don't we all want world peace? Because that statement was made by none other than the original fascist leader, Benito Mussolini.

Spastic bullet, I read your posts. Just no reason to argue your points.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6767|Portland, OR USA
As I stated in the thread on this topic I already started, I think Communism in its true form is the penultimate system of government, despite that ipso facto it has NO government.  That being said, the closest communism will ever get to being realized on a large scale is socialism - which is still probably better than Fascism.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6915|Canberra, AUS

AAFCptKabbom wrote:

C'mon and play fair.  Give us a real pole that has all choices and include "other not listed".
Very, very few people living in a democracy will touch this pole - play fair and not like a, uh, well, a bit either Communist/Fascist with only two choices

Kaboom.
I don't think you're getting the point.

No-one is suggesting we change to either of the two. What we're merely trying to find out is which is better.

Communism. As far as I know, no communist made massive landgrabs (Stalin and Mao don't count - they were wayyyy too authoritarian.)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6915|Canberra, AUS

Mackaronen wrote:

Fascism!! Not that i like that choise at all but the human being is too egoistic for communism to work. Every try yet to bring communism in to this world has ended in fiasco.
You sure?

As far as I know, Vietnam is still going strong, as is Cuba.

Yugoslavia's most peaceful period was under a socialist leader (Tito).
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6767|Portland, OR USA

BN wrote:

isnt there middle ground somewhere?
yes, the entire ideaological spectrum.  These are the two right and left extremes
JudgeDredd1824
Member
+32|6894|Wigan an proud of it mate !
How about Tea-ism A teaist neo-theocrity with socio-teaist ideals would be good.

We should all sit down and have a nice cup of tea... With scones and clotted cream.

Oh yeah... and jam too.. I like jam..

Oh yeah.... and cucumber sandwiches, but without the cucumber coz I don't like cucumber.

Where's my pills, has anyone seen my pills? I know I had them when they released me, or did I escape? I can never remember the deatils. Have you seen my car keys? Or even my car come to think of it. Humm.
I meant to ask you, how's Elvis doing?, he was such a nice man you know ! Always singing and stuff.

Wise men say, only fools rush in..... come on everyone, join in !   la la la la
JudgeDredd1824
Member
+32|6894|Wigan an proud of it mate !
How about a banana republic? I like banana's
Pinto
Member
+13|6819

Spark wrote:

Mackaronen wrote:

Fascism!! Not that i like that choise at all but the human being is too egoistic for communism to work. Every try yet to bring communism in to this world has ended in fiasco.
You sure?

As far as I know, Vietnam is still going strong, as is Cuba.

Yugoslavia's most peaceful period was under a socialist leader (Tito).
If Cuba is that strong, why are the people fleeing to the US?
Lib-Sl@yer
Member
+32|6953|Wherever the F**k i feel like
Fascism b/c communism is fascism without the economic freedoms

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