alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
- Index »
- Community »
- Debate and Serious Talk »
- The Difference Between Christianity and Islam
it shares the same basic ideas and principlesFlecco wrote:
Islam is built on the teachings of Mohammad... Only has as much to do with the Old Testament as Christianity and Judaism.herrr_smity wrote:
don't you know that Islam is build on the old testament
only religious fanatics counts atheism as a religionFlecco wrote:
cyborg-ninja, many count atheism, agnosticism and Scientology as religions..
http://www.iamanatheist.com/
Last edited by herrr_smity (2006-07-02 15:45:33)
Christianity being a loser's religion? That's a bit of a stretch. It's more about being able to maintain dignity even in the face of oppression, while not succumbing to evil. And I would think that a concept of 'eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven' aims a bit at the crown jewels, rather than the muck of loserdom.
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).CommieChipmunk wrote:
alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-02 17:48:37)
i agree that atheism isnt really a religion... its just a belief that there is no supirior beingunnamednewbie13 wrote:
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).CommieChipmunk wrote:
alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.
Spoken like a true, um... Muslim?JaMDuDe wrote:
Islam is an example of what happens when people follow false prophets(war, poverty, no freedom and sand). Islam was made by a warrior/wannabe leader and christianity was made by a humble loving guy.
I have to say that you some of the things you stated are wrong. Hebrew is a generic term given to the Jews that were members of or descendants from one of the northern semitic people, including Israelites. Just like a Canadian is also an American because they live in North America. So you can be a Hebrew and practice Judaism. The largest source of data on Jesus (the Bible) states that he did practice/study Judaism. He celebrated Passover, and visited the Temple multiple times.Flecco wrote:
Islam is built on the teachings of Mohammad... Only has as much to do with the Old Testament as Christianity and Judaism.herrr_smity wrote:
don't you know that Islam is build on the old testament
Oh, Jesus was a hebrew. He wasn't a person practicing the Jewish faith, therefore he wasn't a jew.
Judaism = The Saviour is coming.
Islam = The Saviour is coming, but until then you listen to Mohammad.
Christianity = The Saviour has been, gone and will come again.
cyborg-ninja, many count atheism, agnosticism and Scientology as religions.
By your definition, Taoism and Bhuddism are not religions either. You don't go to a church or worship a higher being with either of those two religions.
Also, Islam does not believe in a Saviour (quote me if I am wrong).
@ the people who state that Islam is based Judaism. This is not completely correct. Mohamed has studied Judaism, Christianity, and other religions before Allah called showed him the truth, according to Islam traditions, he was seeking the true God. Most of the Islam is based on core Judaism beliefs, and some core Christianity beliefs. Islam took a lot of the prophets from the Jewish writing, like Isaiah and Moses. They also have some core figures from Christianity, ie Jesus, and John the Baptist.
Atheist may not knock on your doors, and try to convert you into their religion but they have other ways of doing that. Ways that are in your face so much that you do not relize it sometime. I am not saying that all atheist do this but some do. For example, the reason prayer was removed from schools was because of an atheist mother. Also, there are groups of atheist who use scienistic studies to "prove" that God/god does not exist.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).CommieChipmunk wrote:
alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.
Here the defination for religion from Dictionary.comcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i agree that atheism isnt really a religion... its just a belief that there is no supirior beingunnamednewbie13 wrote:
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).CommieChipmunk wrote:
alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
The first defination makes atheism a religion. It is a belief that there is no creator, and since there is not creator/supernatural then there are no supernatural power.
If you define religion as stated in the third defination (or the second one), then atheism is not a religion since it does not have a central leader.
Again, if you use the fourth defination, then atheism is a religion, because there are some people who devote their time and resources to "prove" that God/god does not exist, as stated above. A good example of this would be the woman who helped remove prayer from school. She devoted her time and resourced to "force" her believe that there is no God/god on the US. This would make atheism a religion in my option.
As a side note if Animal Rights can be considered a religion (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_A … otIncluded) then that would really make atheism a religion.
Edit: added dictionary.com link, and fixed a typo
Last edited by dubbs (2006-07-02 19:02:55)
Can you read?! The first definition explicitly disqualifies atheism from being a "religion".dubbs wrote:
Here the defination for religion from Dictionary.comcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i agree that atheism isnt really a religion... its just a belief that there is no supirior being
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
The first defination makes atheism a religion. It is a belief that there is no creator, and since there is not creator/supernatural then there are no supernatural power.
The fourth definition, which is figurative, is the only one that allows interpreting atheism as a "religion".dubbs wrote:
If you define religion as stated in the third defination (or the second one), then atheism is not a religion since it does not have a central leader.
Again, if you use the fourth defination, then atheism is a religion, because there are some people who devote their time and resources to "prove" that God/god does not exist, as stated above. A good example of this would be the woman who helped remove prayer from school. She devoted her time and resourced to "force" her believe that there is no God/god on the US. This would make atheism a religion in my option.
And attempts to prevent unconstitutional religion-specific proselytizing in public schools are not in themselves proselytizing.
I think you have it a bit mixed up there.
Religion definition '1. a./b.' does not nail atheism as a religion. However, a belief that there is no God is still a mark of faith. A proper atheist skeptic will not say that there is no God (as proof is logically questionable either way), but will instead merely fail to acknowledge God.
Religion definition '1. a./b.' does not nail atheism as a religion. However, a belief that there is no God is still a mark of faith. A proper atheist skeptic will not say that there is no God (as proof is logically questionable either way), but will instead merely fail to acknowledge God.
dubbs wrote:
Here the defination for religion from Dictionary.com
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
The first defination makes atheism a religion. It is a belief that there is no creator, and since there is not creator/supernatural then there are no supernatural power.
If you define religion as stated in the third defination (or the second one), then atheism is not a religion since it does not have a central leader.
Again, if you use the fourth defination, then atheism is a religion, because there are some people who devote their time and resources to "prove" that God/god does not exist, as stated above. A good example of this would be the woman who helped remove prayer from school. She devoted her time and resourced to "force" her believe that there is no God/god on the US. This would make atheism a religion in my option.
As a side note if Animal Rights can be considered a religion (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_A … otIncluded) then that would really make atheism a religion.
Edit: added dictionary.com link, and fixed a typo
- Superior Mind
- (not macbeth)
- +1,755|6933
o rly?bruisehound wrote:
Chistains lynch black people and Muslims lynch white people
Last edited by Superior Mind (2006-07-02 19:20:00)
So who were your teachers? LoL.dubbs wrote:
Atheist may not knock on your doors, and try to convert you into their religion but they have other ways of doing that. Ways that are in your face so much that you do not relize it sometime. I am not saying that all atheist do this but some do. For example, the reason prayer was removed from schools was because of an atheist mother. Also, there are groups of atheist who use scienistic studies to "prove" that God/god does not exist.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).CommieChipmunk wrote:
alright kinda off topic but whatever, i've always wondered this. if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? Your gone, neurons stop firing and you cease to exist. how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.Here the defination for religion from Dictionary.comcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i agree that atheism isnt really a religion... its just a belief that there is no supirior beingunnamednewbie13 wrote:
If an atheist is to view that concept from a purely logical mindset, it probably won't be bothersome whatsoever. The force and matter that keep him alive will merely be redistributed elsewhere (provided it can escape a sealed coffin).
I will call atheism a religion with a capital R when they go around door to door trying to convert people to their views. In a way, it is just another system of faith.
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
The first defination makes atheism a religion. It is a belief that there is no creator, and since there is not creator/supernatural then there are no supernatural power.
If you define religion as stated in the third defination (or the second one), then atheism is not a religion since it does not have a central leader.
Again, if you use the fourth defination, then atheism is a religion, because there are some people who devote their time and resources to "prove" that God/god does not exist, as stated above. A good example of this would be the woman who helped remove prayer from school. She devoted her time and resourced to "force" her believe that there is no God/god on the US. This would make atheism a religion in my option.
As a side note if Animal Rights can be considered a religion (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_A … otIncluded) then that would really make atheism a religion.
Edit: added dictionary.com link, and fixed a typo
A religion is a conceptual edifice guiding one's world view--Atheism does not do this. By your claim, attributing Atheism as a religion with Dictionary.com's fourth definition, it's basically okay to say that parenting is a religion, living is a religion (i.e. pursuance of enjoyment [a principle]), etc. In all, thoroughly illogical and lacking in sensicality. So thus, I don you the cap...of the nub. Go nub, run along and play where critical thinking is without need. *throws bone*
Your bestest buddeh,
Xietsu
Are you calling me a camel jockey?spastic bullet wrote:
Spoken like a true, um... Muslim?JaMDuDe wrote:
Islam is an example of what happens when people follow false prophets(war, poverty, no freedom and sand). Islam was made by a warrior/wannabe leader and christianity was made by a humble loving guy.
First and foremost, thank you to everyone for making this an interesting discussion.
I'm going to try to reply to a bunch of stuff in one post here...
************
**************
***********************
*********************
Secondly I don't think that is a good paraphrase. I think I'm closer to saying that Islam gives you guidelines on lynching and Christianity doesn't.
***********************
Sidenote: Feudalism was actually a very open system (compared to most in its time) in terms of who could come to power and what opportunities ordinary people had to resist power.
Anyway, my central point is that Christianity's past association with feudalism is no more natural or essential to the core of the religion than its current association with capitalism and democracy.
******************
*Edit: Clarity*
I'm going to try to reply to a bunch of stuff in one post here...
************
I am being a bit dramatic when I say 'loser,' but I mean it only politically. My point is that Christianity is about being able to maintain dignity in the face of oppression, while Islam is much more concerned with destroying that oppression. (I'm talking about the scriptural roots of the religions here, and I'm not saying that Christianity is totally unconcerned with destroying oppression).unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Christianity being a loser's religion? That's a bit of a stretch. It's more about being able to maintain dignity even in the face of oppression, while not succumbing to evil.
**************
Yeah, Islam has a saviour figure coming at the end of time. The Mahdi. I don't really know much else about him than that, though.dubbs wrote:
Also, Islam does not believe in a Saviour (quote me if I am wrong).
***********************
Personally, yes, I find it quite disturbing. It was all a lot less scary when I was a Christian. However, I know many atheists and agnostics who seem to be much better adjusted to that whole idea than I am.CommieChipmunk wrote:
if you guys dont believe in God or a 'god' then you believe its just over when you die? ...
... how do you live like that? isnt it kinda depressing?
*********************
Superior Mind, please do not quote me on things I did not say. It would be courteous to make it clear that you are paraphrasing.Superior Mind wrote:
bruisehound wrote:
Chistains lynch black people and Muslims lynch white people
Secondly I don't think that is a good paraphrase. I think I'm closer to saying that Islam gives you guidelines on lynching and Christianity doesn't.
***********************
I guess I should have made myself clear that I was analysing the beginnings of the religions. Christianity's affair with feudalism is the result of the Roman Empire's collapse, which didn't happen until after the basics of Christianity had been laid down.Bubbalo wrote:
You have got to be fucking kidding me. Chrisianity is tied very heavily to fuedalism, which was about maintaining power structures.bruisehound wrote:
Therefore Christianity is about humility and forgiveness, and Islam is about authority and justice.
Sidenote: Feudalism was actually a very open system (compared to most in its time) in terms of who could come to power and what opportunities ordinary people had to resist power.
Anyway, my central point is that Christianity's past association with feudalism is no more natural or essential to the core of the religion than its current association with capitalism and democracy.
******************
*Edit: Clarity*
Last edited by bruisehound (2006-07-02 20:44:42)
Did you used to be a catholic bruise?
well i spose the only thing is that thousands of christians got killed because they were seen as a threat to the roman empire, nero blamed the christians when rome burnt.
But at the end of the day you are right christianity is not about what you can get from this world but the next.
Therefore to love your neighbour and your enemy is something that christians should strive to.
hard work and real weird talking about loving your neighbour.
I have a real problem with Islam i think its pretty bad but i have to get over that and show compassion and love to them. Its what will seperate them from us at the end of the day. I can crap on and on but if my actions dont reflect what i say im a liar and a fraud...
But at the end of the day you are right christianity is not about what you can get from this world but the next.
Therefore to love your neighbour and your enemy is something that christians should strive to.
hard work and real weird talking about loving your neighbour.
I have a real problem with Islam i think its pretty bad but i have to get over that and show compassion and love to them. Its what will seperate them from us at the end of the day. I can crap on and on but if my actions dont reflect what i say im a liar and a fraud...
"Christianity was designed as a loser's religion (politically). It was formed at a time and place when there was a clear ruler (Roman Empire ca. 0 AD). The political field was closed, and Christianity designed a way to live a good, faithful life without unduly challenging the secular power. It accepted a great deal of submission to Caesar. Christianity's holy books provide a framework for how live in poverty and humility. The New Testament does not provide a framework for laws and wars. Governance is unnatural to Christianity." - bruisehound
I'm not an expert on Christianity - I've never been to Church so forgive me if my citations of biblical works are off.
The order of religions was Judaism, Christianity, and Islam by time of founding (approximately).
To put it simply, the Jews held power for a long period of time and then disgraced their God Yahweh by their culture degrading into a less pious peoples and becoming more material rather than spiritually oriented. As punishment for this, their God cast them out of their homeland and they were thus enslaved etc. etc.
During the period where the Jews were under Roman rule (the time of Christ, for arguments sake) Christianity came up from Jesus Christ. However, Christianity cannot be classified as a way to live a faithful life without unduly challenging the secular power, because the simple creation of Christianity threatened the little power the Jews had over their own people - hence why the Jews turned Jesus over to the Romans. The Romans executed Jesus not because he was simply a Christian, but because he was becoming (or had the potential to become) a powerful political figure in the area. Asfor CHristianity not providing a framework for laws and wars, I think that's incorrect. Doesn't the old testament come before the new testament? Or is that Jewdaism? I've never been sure on that one lol. Either way, the 10 commandments for Christianity imply rules for laws and wars (if you're being commanded not to do something it would be applicable as a law) while the old testament has that old slogan an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth if I'm correct.
Some time later Islam was created (forgive me here, I didn't really ever pay attention in my Comparative Religions classes). Islam more closely allies with Judaism than Christianity I believe. The difference between Christianity and Islam is the blood line of the prophets. I don't know much more about Islam's foundation
That's just my grasp on it, but I'm no theology major - so feel free to fill me in with some information
I'm not an expert on Christianity - I've never been to Church so forgive me if my citations of biblical works are off.
The order of religions was Judaism, Christianity, and Islam by time of founding (approximately).
To put it simply, the Jews held power for a long period of time and then disgraced their God Yahweh by their culture degrading into a less pious peoples and becoming more material rather than spiritually oriented. As punishment for this, their God cast them out of their homeland and they were thus enslaved etc. etc.
During the period where the Jews were under Roman rule (the time of Christ, for arguments sake) Christianity came up from Jesus Christ. However, Christianity cannot be classified as a way to live a faithful life without unduly challenging the secular power, because the simple creation of Christianity threatened the little power the Jews had over their own people - hence why the Jews turned Jesus over to the Romans. The Romans executed Jesus not because he was simply a Christian, but because he was becoming (or had the potential to become) a powerful political figure in the area. Asfor CHristianity not providing a framework for laws and wars, I think that's incorrect. Doesn't the old testament come before the new testament? Or is that Jewdaism? I've never been sure on that one lol. Either way, the 10 commandments for Christianity imply rules for laws and wars (if you're being commanded not to do something it would be applicable as a law) while the old testament has that old slogan an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth if I'm correct.
Some time later Islam was created (forgive me here, I didn't really ever pay attention in my Comparative Religions classes). Islam more closely allies with Judaism than Christianity I believe. The difference between Christianity and Islam is the blood line of the prophets. I don't know much more about Islam's foundation
That's just my grasp on it, but I'm no theology major - so feel free to fill me in with some information
Good post... Can you imagine? I can.Wasder wrote:
Ah, well. If you want to discuss difference between Islam and Chrisiatiny, you should rather go to some specialised forum. And you should study both Bible and Koran closely to compare the religions.
The simplication is kinda funny though.
Anyway,
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8844 … non1hd.jpg
says:
Imagine there's no heaven,
it's easy if you try,
no hell below us,
above us only sky.
Imagine all the people,
living for today yu-huh.
You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us,
and the world will be as one.
Imagine there's no countries,
it isn't hard to do,
nothing to kill or die for,
and no religion too.
Imagine all the people,......and so on.
It's not that I'm a big fan of him, but I like some of his ideas. Hippies ftw!
No, I'm calling you a hypocritical Christian who thinks "humble" and "loving" are badges, and not words that actually have meaning.JaMDuDe wrote:
Are you calling me a camel jockey?spastic bullet wrote:
Spoken like a true, um... Muslim?JaMDuDe wrote:
Islam is an example of what happens when people follow false prophets(war, poverty, no freedom and sand). Islam was made by a warrior/wannabe leader and christianity was made by a humble loving guy.
Last edited by spastic bullet (2006-07-02 21:00:30)
What do u mean? Jesus was a loving guy and he was humble. And mohammed was a warrior. Humble and loving arent "badges", they are what describe him.spastic bullet wrote:
No, I'm calling you a hypocritical Christian who thinks "humble" and "loving" are badges, and not words that actually have meaning.JaMDuDe wrote:
Are you calling me a camel jockey?spastic bullet wrote:
Spoken like a true, um... Muslim?
Do Christians follow the teachings of, um... Christ?
Yeah, are you trying to say im not a very good christian? I already know that
I have a Saudi friend who never saw a camel until he moved to Australia and went to the zoo.JaMDuDe wrote:
Are you calling me a camel jockey?spastic bullet wrote:
Spoken like a true, um... Muslim?JaMDuDe wrote:
Islam is an example of what happens when people follow false prophets(war, poverty, no freedom and sand). Islam was made by a warrior/wannabe leader and christianity was made by a humble loving guy.
Oh, and you're an asshole.
Sand? You ignorant idiot. You are a fucking dolt, you sound like an idiot and have no idea what you are talking about.JaMDuDe wrote:
Islam is an example of what happens when people follow false prophets(war, poverty, no freedom and sand). Islam was made by a warrior/wannabe leader and christianity was made by a humble loving guy.
On topic:
Religions are stupid.
Last edited by TheCanadianTerrorist (2006-07-02 21:10:17)
1) Atheism is not a religion. unnamednewbie, a true atheist does deny the existence of god or other higher being/s. An agnostic remains uncertain (which leads us to the joke about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac who lies awake at night wondering if dog exists). Atheism has not formal set of beliefs, nor a set of instructions.
2) Apparently I need get a clue before I can post? Because apparently the Church wasn't part of the fuedalist power structure?
3) bruisehound: On a similar note, to seperate that from Christianity also invalidates many of your comments, as many of the books regarding Jihad and whatnot were written after the death of Mohammed. Besides which, that era would have had a huge effect on the way Christianity is practiced today.
2) Apparently I need get a clue before I can post? Because apparently the Church wasn't part of the fuedalist power structure?
3) bruisehound: On a similar note, to seperate that from Christianity also invalidates many of your comments, as many of the books regarding Jihad and whatnot were written after the death of Mohammed. Besides which, that era would have had a huge effect on the way Christianity is practiced today.
- Index »
- Community »
- Debate and Serious Talk »
- The Difference Between Christianity and Islam