easy-skanking wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
Look it's like this - both parties commit crimes against each other on a daily basis but Israel are the folks who are fundamentally wrong and have commited a major injustice against the Palestinians that must be atoned for.
Your map is fictional.
I have a different take on this. The arabs are the ones who have done a major injustice and have never atoned for it. That would be after the jews lived in Jerusalem for more than a thousand years since 1200 bc the Assyrian, Babylonians, and Persians killed and expelled them from thier land. The creation of Israel was a response to arab violence against jewish migrations. Id put some blame on Muhammed Amin al-Husseini an arab nazi from Jerusalem who not only allied with Hitler but took Palestinians to fight for Germany. He was rather fond of Hitlers ideas of anti-semitism and of course exterminating the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammed_Amin_al-HusseiniHes a really nice guy who initiated lots of arab violence against jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riots_in_Palestine_of_1920http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riots_in_Palestine_of_1929http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Uprisinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_WarThe end result being that after Jews had been kicked around enough they decided to SPLIT the country and seperate the Jews from the Arabs. They chose to segregate the population to defend the civlians from arab violence so indirectly arabs created Israel.. no injustice there.
I got a question for you though are you a Republican? Do you symapthise with the IRA ? Do you hate loyalists too ? Still resent the English ?
I can't help but think your being Irish influences your fervent support of Palestinians.. I can empathize but not blindly.
To answer your questions (although this is completely off-topic): I am an Irish Republican. I sympathise with the IRA idealogy but deplored their civilian attacks. I believed in guerrilla warfare against the british military and governmental apparatus in Northern Ireland. I would have preferred it if the IRA had held to their principles and attacked only military, institutional and economic targets but lowlife criminal elements spread through the organisation and that is why I could not support the IRA during 'the troubles'. The Provisional IRA of the 70s, 80s and 90s bears little resemblance to the IRA/IRB that drove England from the 26 counties to create the Republic. The Republic of Ireland is now a fantastic place to live and I live a comfortable life, especially compared to my brethren in the six counties. I do resent the things that they did to my country in the past, and how they held back our progress, and I am not going to forget them overnight.
Whether or not this has a bearing on my views on the Israel-Palestine issue is irrelevant. They are similar situations in some respects yet
different in others. I judge the situation there on what I have read and seen.
Back on topic:
I think you misinterpreted why I think Israel has committed the fundamental injustice. I am well aware of factional fighting pre-1948. Arab militia did attack newly arrived jewish immigrant groups, that is true. What right, they might have asked, did these people have to come and settle in our land? The jewish immigrants were also responsible for similar acts of 'terrorism', or whatever you want to call it, against Palestinians. I am not going to do a typical Skanking (I know who you really are remember!!) and post a load of links I haven't read but needless to say I could post links to massacres carried out by the Haganah and other jewish immigrant factions. Arabs reacted to jewish migrations, immigrants responded in kind.
Arab violence against jewish migrations: the US is currently in the grip of an immigration crisis involving Mexico. They are going to take a hardline knowing Bush and co. If people were migrating into my country en masse then I would consider combatting it myself somehow. What right have mexicans to migrate illegally to the US? What right had european jews to migrate to Palestine?
The
original fundamental crime Israel committed against the arabs was to dispossess hundred of thousands of arab men, women and children of their homes and farms and to send them into
perpetual exile, without any reparations whatsoever. By the way, Israel did not choose to
segregate the population - if that was the case then how come Nazareth, for instance, is a predominantly arabic town and why is 18.5% of the population arabic? I disagree with you in your belief that the state of Israel was
primarily a response to arab violence - that is laughable. The state of Israel was born out of zionist fervour and the obvious need for a jewish homeland in the wake of WWII. My argument is that the arabs should not have paid the price for european crimes - Germany should have.
Jews lived in Jerusalem, etc. for 1200 years. That is true. What is also true is that arabs lived in Jerusalem, etc. for the same length of time if not longer. I don't understand how you can use that as an argument in support of why hundreds of thousands of arabs were cast from their homes so the jews could have a 'homeland'.
PS The map is not fictional. THe black line on the map shows the
approved barrier route. The white line enlosing the east of the west bank is hypothetical but is known to be a potential route in the eyes of Kadima, the current ruling party in Israel. The map was lifted from an article on the BBC website.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-29 02:18:27)