BF2S Forums Gasoline alternatives FTW

The following are interesting excerpts from a documentary called "The end of suburbia - Oil depletion, and the end of the American dream". Great doco if you get the chance to see/download it. I found it interesting due to the fact that 53% of readers of this thread (at the moment) think hydrogen is the answer.

"There is no combination of so called alternative-fuels that are going to allow us to run, what we're running in the United States the way we're running it now on oil and natural gas. No amount of solar or wind or nuclear is going to allow us to continue living this way of life. A lot of people think hydrogen is going to rescue us, and I think hydrogen is an interesting example of a public dellusion, the kind that arises when people start to feel frightened, and they have reason to be frightened, because we don't have a plan B"

"People need to ask very serious questions about alternative energy before jumping into a lifeboat without knowing whether it's going to float or not. We see a whole bunch of almost hysterical applause for hydrogen. Hydrogen is a joke, it's a myth, we will not have a hydrogen economy. Hydrogen is not a form of energy, it's a form of energy storage, and all hydrogen now is produced from some other substance which requires the input of energy. Generally it takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get from the hydrogen."

"It's fabulous because you only have to have electricity and water. Well, to have electricity you have to have some other form of energy. The single easiest way to create hydrogen is using methane. Methane is just a scientific term for natural gas. So in a world where we are short of natural gas, the last thing we need is a brand new user."

Last edited by thanks_champ (2006-06-25 06:30:13)

thanks_champ wrote:

The following are interesting excerpts from a documentary called "The end of suburbia - Oil depletion, and the end of the American dream". Great doco if you get the chance to see/download it. I found it interesting due to the fact that 53% of readers of this thread (at the moment) think hydrogen is the answer.

"There is no combination of so called alternative-fuels that are going to allow us to run, what we're running in the United States the way we're running it now on oil and natural gas. No amount of solar or wind or nuclear is going to allow us to continue living this way of life. A lot of people think hydrogen is going to rescue us, and I think hydrogen is an interesting example of a public dellusion, the kind that arises when people start to feel frightened, and they have reason to be frightened, because we don't have a plan B"

"People need to ask very serious questions about alternative energy before jumping into a lifeboat without knowing whether it's going to float or not. We see a whole bunch of almost hysterical applause for hydrogen. Hydrogen is a joke, it's a myth, we will not have a hydrogen economy. Hydrogen is not a form of energy, it's a form of energy storage, and all hydrogen now is produced from some other substance which requires the input of energy. Generally it takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get from the hydrogen."

"It's fabulous because you only have to have electricity and water. Well, to have electricity you have to have some other form of energy. The single easiest way to create hydrogen is using methane. Methane is just a scientific term for natural gas. So in a world where we are short of natural gas, the last thing we need is a brand new user."

All completely true.  And the time people come to accept it, there will not be enough energy to go round.  The car is dead, and the way of life people were just growing accustomed to will soon be no more than a memory.  Make the most of it while you can, people, but don't you dare tell your children the warning signs weren't there.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

The horse and cart may well undercut the car as the price of oil rises.

Yay! Kentucky FTW!
Honestly, I'd like to see more Hybrids in the interim, and possibly more GM EV1's, but fat chance of either of those happening till it's far too late. Horse and Buggy would be available in a snap, but it'd really screw with our economy if it comes to that, as it is much slower.

younggun, you didnt by any chance read what either thanks_champ or myself have written on this, have you?

I say we become completely dependent on some other convenient exhaustible resource!

my vote goes for Ethanol

its much more envrioment friendly and can be produced fast

Well, we best think of something soon. Greenland's melting.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/cus … ines-space

You're right. Just because it's possible doesn't make it a good choice. Especially when we have to rebuild our global infrastructure to use it. We should take this opportunity to learn that in the long run, it's not worth it to use unrenewable energy, energy generation that causes pollution, or energy that is unsafe.

Last edited by thanks_champ (2006-06-26 11:47:32)

Hydrogen is still expensive to store and manufacture and isn't anywhere near as stable as the more traditional fuels, and a point that I meant to bring up before is that it would require everyone on the planet to replace their internal combustion engines, from the multi-billion dollar shipping yards down to Farmer Brown trying to get by on his 50 year old Ford inline-8 tractor, whereas pretty much anything on the road now can cheaply be converted to propane, ethanol, or bio-diesel

I didn't even see this post when I first put this up here.......

mcminty wrote:

The biggest problem we have is the current world situation of China's rapidly growing car industry. Every year millions upon millions of Chinese are gaining access to cars. This rapid growth is creating a massive demand for fuel, and is responsible for the rising petrol prices.

Our top priority should be the preservation of hydrocarbon-based fuel for aircraft and the aviation industry, cause you can't power a plane with a battery, can you? Think of the global economic impacts that the loss of air travel would create - the global economy would come to a stand-still.


While new technologies are being developed, the existing petrol we have must be 'watered down' with ethanol.



I see lots of you have stated that hydrogen would be a viable fuel. In the technologies current form, hydrogen must be stored in a tank at several hundred atmospheres of pressure. I don't know about you, but next time I accidentally rear-end another car I don't want to demolish a city block...




Mcminty.

the rapid Chinese growth is often forgotten when people start arguing the world oil market, glad you brought it up....

almost anything that runs on JP-8 (jet fuel) can run on even moderate quality diesel, including the M1 Abrams tank
and replacements for both are being developed like bio-diesel and alcohol based fuels....

NEW FOR 2012, THE VOLKSWAGEN HINDENBURG!!!!.......as I'm typing this I am in the middle of 720,000 gallons of liquified propane, chemical stability is very important to me

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-30 06:49:48)