i love guns. for me (living in australia) since the port authur massacre in 1996 (where one really f'd up man kills 35 people and injured like 25 more) there have been huge drops in GUN-RELATED crimes (armed robbery etc) in australia and were not allowed to have any high powed handguns and its is soooo fucking hard to obtain a firearm liscence (so much crap you have to go through) that people just steal the guns now, (witch is a problem) anyhoo i think you should only have guns for personal defence and home protection and of course competitive shooting and hunting. However what fucking place must you live in that you need a fucking Colt M4, SPAS 12, barret M95 and a god dam Smith & Wesson model 29 to "protect your home" like wtf m8? because you honestly dont need a god dam 50cal rifle unless your hunting whales or soemthing i think you need a hell of a lot more restrictions like we have out here in australia, not ban them becuase thats soemthing the fucking hippies want, but make laws where you have to be able to properly use the weapon you want a liscence for (eg no point in buying an ak-47 if youve bever used a gun before) and ffs ask for a bloody liscence when buying ammunition i mean like what does a depressed 10 year old kid going to do with 100 rounds on 9mm ammunition, and his dads gun he found in the vegetable crisper??? anyhoo yea thats my retarded opinion. pardon if it dosent quite make sencse i have a bad hangover
Its the person who Kills, not the gun. The gun is a tool. A Knife and a hammer kill just as DEAD. Ask the UK about the Ban on even Kitchen Knives coming. You should be more worried about the countries who hand out AK-47 assault rifles to 5 year olds. Worry more about these cheap foreign manufacturers of the cheap assault weapons dumping tons of firearms into these countries. You do know that The biggest International Arms dealers are Mid east countries? Its NOT America.
Our so called Gun culture are folks who believe in the right to bear arms for personal protection and for the defense of our country if the need ever arises. because if the Democrats get back into power, we are going to need them, because they will probably disband the military if they get there way.
I carry, and do so because i can.
Our so called Gun culture are folks who believe in the right to bear arms for personal protection and for the defense of our country if the need ever arises. because if the Democrats get back into power, we are going to need them, because they will probably disband the military if they get there way.
I carry, and do so because i can.
I have 4 guns in the house. We have to get a special permit to have 4. Two shotguns for clay pigeon shooting comps and two rifles for culling deer. We are also the local exterminators and get called out to kill Dog packs worrying livestock and cattle that snaps etc. The police call around 4-5 times a year and inspect the storage arrangements and question the hell outa us. We have to walk the lands we are allowed to shot on once a year with a special police officer to make sure there are back drops when taking shots etc. If we go on holiday we have to leave the guns or stocks into the police station. Sometimes it feels like we are being harassed by the police, but in-fact what it does is, it serves to remind us how powerful these guns are and how they are tools not toys. By making guns so widely available to all and so unregulated you trivialize them from what they are for. Killing.
The first sentence I agree with. The second is irrelevant. High-powered weapons like that are ultimately too expensive for the average Joe. And while I wouldn't use something like a .50 rifle against a homebreaker (for fear it would go through him, my tv, my wall, my fence my neighbor's wall, their bathroom door, and into their dog), it would be quite handy for dropping an angry bear, if I could be sure I hit the damn thing while my brain sits there for three seconds in dumbfounded shock from the blast.Mongoose wrote:
anyhoo i think you should only have guns for personal defence and home protection and of course competitive shooting and hunting. However what fucking place must you live in that you need a fucking Colt M4, SPAS 12, barret M95 and a god dam Smith & Wesson model 29 to "protect your home" like wtf m8? because you honestly dont need a god dam 50cal rifle unless your hunting whales or soemthing
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-06-20 04:57:43)
This is a Neg Karma reason i was left from some Motherfuckeing Internet toughguy.
I'd prefer if the Dems executed the military but that's not going to happen either.
Motherfucker I would so love to know who you are. You pussy whipped wannabe left wing Vegtable ass slamming bastard. I wouldnt think twice about putting a fucking bullet between your eyes. You sick fuck. I hope you get shot someday. Preferably When the military is no more and we get invaded and One of us gun toating citizens Shoots yo by mistake because hes trying to shoot the cuban thats assraping you in the alley.
I could only hope this gets me thrown off here. Theres some sick Bastards here. Sorry to the Mormal folks.
I'd prefer if the Dems executed the military but that's not going to happen either.
Motherfucker I would so love to know who you are. You pussy whipped wannabe left wing Vegtable ass slamming bastard. I wouldnt think twice about putting a fucking bullet between your eyes. You sick fuck. I hope you get shot someday. Preferably When the military is no more and we get invaded and One of us gun toating citizens Shoots yo by mistake because hes trying to shoot the cuban thats assraping you in the alley.
I could only hope this gets me thrown off here. Theres some sick Bastards here. Sorry to the Mormal folks.
easy easy lol !<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
This is a Neg Karma reason i was left from some Motherfuckeing Internet toughguy.
I'd prefer if the Dems executed the military but that's not going to happen either.
Motherfucker I would so love to know who you are. You pussy whipped wannabe left wing Vegtable ass slamming bastard. I wouldnt think twice about putting a fucking bullet between your eyes. You sick fuck. I hope you get shot someday. Preferably When the military is no more and we get invaded and One of us gun toating citizens Shoots yo by mistake because hes trying to shoot the cuban thats assraping you in the alley.
I could only hope this gets me thrown off here. Theres some sick Bastards here. Sorry to the Mormal folks.
It is not the gun that kills, the gun is just an instruments. It is the person using it!Jinto-sk wrote:
Was just wondering what people think (ESPECIALLY AMERICANS) about America's so called obsession with guns or gun culture what ever you want to call it. Being in the UK we hear a lot about America and it's gun culture. Watching Michael Moore's - Bowling for Columbine puts heavy emphasis on america and it's gun laws/culture. (I know Moore is only giving HIS political stance, but it does raise some good questions).
This is not a random flame of Americans so please do not use it so, if you disagree with the yanks FOR there GUN CULTURE please do it in a mature way.
So what do people think
I have 10 handguns, 3 rifles, 2 shotguns and I support my government and believe in the Constitution and bill of rights, I dare anyone to attempt to take my guns ( I have a concealed weapons permit so I'm always carrying ) by taking guns away from the lawful citizens it would open the flood gates to the criminals - you ask how do you know who's lawful and who's not, well no-one knows you can get into your car today and get killed by a drunk driver - my point if we were going to take away guns bc of death or injury then lets take away everything that causes harm, we shouldn't half ass go all the way - cars - knives - bats - crowbars - scissors - the anti-gun ppl are so strong minded to get rid of guns that they want to rewrite the bases of what this country was founded on, but watch how fast they act if someone proposes to take away the freedom of speech that means Michael Moore can't say what ever he wants even though he is a huge anti-American hypocrite ( showing the bad but nothing of the good with guns - I think he needs to see " Super Size Me" to see what fast food can do to his fat ass) with what I had to go through to get my concealed permit I think everyone should go through so they can have a better understanding of weapons and what can happen legally if they get into trouble, I know ppl that have children with small .22 rifles - I have no problem with that as long as the children understand the safety and the concerns of using a firearms, there are those parents that don't care and let there kids do whatever, guns is the least of there concerns since one almost OD on coke, but remember its not the gun that kills its the person behind it - a person can kill you as easily with a car, knife, bat, frying pan then with a gun
I totally disagree. That's an excuse used too often. What would've happened in Columbine if those two had pile of kitchen knives instead? To kill someone with a firearm accidentally or in anger is much more likely than with a knife or bat.SEREMAKER wrote:
a person can kill you as easily with a car, knife, bat, frying pan then with a gun
so its the guns ( all by themselves) that walked into Columbine and did the violence, no it was the idiot teenagers with the irresponsible parents that never got involved with there kids life to know that they were screwed up, what if they walked into Columbine with homemade explosives ( like what happend at Oklahoma City Fed building) should we start an anti-fertilzer campian, or how about the letter bombs should we due away with mail or destory the household products that ppl can use to make bombs withPekkaA wrote:
I totally disagree. That's an excuse used too often. What would've happened in Columbine if those two had pile of kitchen knives instead? To kill someone with a firearm accidentally or in anger is much more likely than with a knife or bat.SEREMAKER wrote:
a person can kill you as easily with a car, knife, bat, frying pan then with a gun
MASS MURDERERS AGREE GUN CONTROL WORKS! Hitler, Stalin, Mao all used gun control laws to effectively reduce the populace's ability to right the wrongs going on in their countries. Throughout history making the general population weaponless is the beginning of tyranny. The United States probly has the least to worry about from foreign invasion due to the fact that yes WE LOVE GUNS! I have been shooting guns since I was very young and of course the very first lessons always involve safety. As for Colombine etc, those kids where in need of some major psychological help, that is not your average gun owner in America and stereotyping Americans as Gun crazy lunatics who just want to shoot anyone in site is like saying all Brits drink tea and talk funny... well ok so thats a bad one (btw i was born in lackenheath, so dont flame) Basically all I'm sayin is that yes Gun Culture is a big part of America and has been since its birth as a nation. Its not a bad thing at all, as for all the idiots out there that kill people well hey man those are criminals and dont necessarily fit the "norm" of society. Personally I don't own any guns at the moment but I am glad my roommate has a pistol for home defense.
every weapon used in the columbine tragedy was obtained illegally, it's not new laws that are needed, it's enforcement of the laws we already have, and EDUCATION for christ's sake, when Barbara Boxer and her gang got together to write the assault weapons ban they just flipped through gun catalogs and said "we should ban that one" based solely on appearance, they ended up banning .22 cal squirrel rifles!! In the states you can legally own assault rifles the violent crime rates are actually lower than the ones like Massachusetts (HEY THERE TED AND KERRY) where they are banned. The "gun culture" to which my family belongs actually ends up decreasing crime. Guns are more than 60 times likely to be used in self defense, often without the need to fire a shot.PekkaA wrote:
I totally disagree. That's an excuse used too often. What would've happened in Columbine if those two had pile of kitchen knives instead? To kill someone with a firearm accidentally or in anger is much more likely than with a knife or bat.SEREMAKER wrote:
a person can kill you as easily with a car, knife, bat, frying pan then with a gun
Some of my earliest memories were of going to the gun range with my parents, my immediate family has about 6 dozen firearms between us from blackpowder muzzle loaders to Gold Cup MkIV Colt .45's, and none of us has ever had a mugshot taken much less been jailed.
some simple bumper sticker wisdom that's actually hard to argue with:
Gun control means hitting your target
If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns
Blaming a gun for a death is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'donnell being fat
So, do you think most of Europe is on its way to tyranny, sursparxalot? You sound like a militia member really. Ready to take over the government? And if you seriously think guns owned by civilians would have any effect on possibility of invasion... well I don't know what to say. For sure you make it a lot easier for disturbed people to committ such a mass murder by having those loose gun laws.
It's funny how you all invoke the law that was written hundreds of years ago. Back then it was also recommened to have at least a few slaves...
It's funny how you all invoke the law that was written hundreds of years ago. Back then it was also recommened to have at least a few slaves...
Don't know that case. For sure it's possibly to kill even with a stapler. But what are most guns made for? Comparing guns to spoons and cars is just stupid.redhawk454 wrote:
what about the muslim guy who drove his suv into a crowd at the University of North Carolina campus??????????????PekkaA wrote:
I totally disagree. That's an excuse used too often. What would've happened in Columbine if those two had pile of kitchen knives instead? To kill someone with a firearm accidentally or in anger is much more likely than with a knife or bat.SEREMAKER wrote:
a person can kill you as easily with a car, knife, bat, frying pan then with a gun
Obviously you don't know anything about European union and I'm not intersted to educate you. Find it out yourself if you care. Your last sentence shows enough of your intelligence. So therefore my conversation with you ends here. Consider it as a victory if you like.redhawk454 wrote:
first off the european union is on its way to a unified government, hmmm. whats naxt a single dictator? second, in our constitution it says the the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed in order to maintain a well armed MILITIA. ok so being in the militia is bad? im not in the militia, if it came down to brass tacks i would be there. it also says that the goverment is for the people and by the people. if the government should fail then its the people's right to take back the government. also the GOVERNMENT controls the military. still lost or do you understand? this nation was built under the premise that we have RIGHTS. if they take one right then the rest are vulnerable. like the keystone in a arch. only EVERY right is a keystone. one more thing, if it aint yours dont fuck with it. leave MY constitution alone.PekkaA wrote:
So, do you think most of Europe is on its way to tyranny, sursparxalot? You sound like a militia member really. Ready to take over the government? And if you seriously think guns owned by civilians would have any effect on possibility of invasion... well I don't know what to say. For sure you make it a lot easier for disturbed people to committ such a mass murder by having those loose gun laws.
It's funny how you all invoke the law that was written hundreds of years ago. Back then it was also recommened to have at least a few slaves...
"This year will go down is history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow out lead into the Future!" - Adolf Hitler, 1935
Last edited by ace_outlaw_8 (2006-06-20 15:24:42)
Straight away showing ignorance. What papers are you reading???? I can't speak for the rest of Europe but anti-EU parties are gaing more support here.redhawk454 wrote:
first off the european union is on its way to a unified government, hmmm. whats naxt a single dictator?
As one of the other posters said, laws change as our morality evolves. When that law was written, it was probably illegal to be gay too, but now they can get effectively married. (To the more civilised nations) Eventually, America will realise that guns were only invented for one reason, to kill and to maim and then they'll finally catch on. They've just about admitted gloabal warming exists so they're only about a decade behind at the moment.....redhawk454 wrote:
second, in our constitution it says the the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed in order to maintain a well armed MILITIA.
Yeah right, so exactly how many people would have to turn up at the White House with their Magnums before Bush would surrender his power? Don't be a complete dumbass man! It would take so many people that if any country wanted to do the same thing they could. Don't try to make out like you have some unique democracy that is the best system in the World.redhawk454 wrote:
it also says that the goverment is for the people and by the people. if the government should fail then its the people's right to take back the government.
I'll remember that for the next time a US soldier does another dumbass thing like Lindsey England did. Then, you'll be telling me how every soldier makes their own decisions and how it's not Bush's fault.redhawk454 wrote:
also the GOVERNMENT controls the military.
Oh you're soooo unique, I wish all of us in these third world dicatatorships had your freedom (extreme irony/sarcasm)redhawk454 wrote:
this nation was built under the premise that we have RIGHTS.
You might want to check how mant laws have been introduced since 9/11 (Should be 11/9 as their is no logical reason for putting the month in front of the day!?!?!?) , you're "rights" are getting more restricted by the day (phone tapping anyone?).....redhawk454 wrote:
if they take one right then the rest are vulnerable. like the keystone in a arch. only EVERY right is a keystone.
OK, but that kinds of puts a spanner in the works when you argue the US reasons for "fucking" with Iraq, Vietnam, Nazi Germany etcredhawk454 wrote:
one more thing, if it aint yours dont fuck with it. leave MY constitution alone.
So? Hitler also built Autobahns and economical growth that no other country could cope with. Are you trying to say that US highways should be bulldozed because Hitler also built his?ace_outlaw_8 wrote:
"This year will go down is history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow out lead into the Future!" - Adolf Hitler, 1935
nazis were also the first anti-smoking...umm, nazis
#1 South Africa 0.719782 per 1,000 peopleredhawk454 wrote:
oh yeah this GUY and io use it loosely. is worried that the us is in the TOP 20? what about the other 19?redhawk454 wrote:
yeah go fuck yourself more people die of aids in Africa than by gun you idiot. y do u think we send so much money there to EDUCATE THEM. if you r worried about my guns then im worried about YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well? what countries are they? and where do they rank?
#2 Colombia 0.509801 per 1,000 people
#3 Thailand 0.312093 per 1,000 people
#4 Zimbabwe 0.0491736 per 1,000 people
#5 Mexico 0.0337938 per 1,000 people
#6 Belarus 0.0321359 per 1,000 people
#7 Costa Rica 0.0313745 per 1,000 people
#8 United States 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
#9 Uruguay 0.0245902 per 1,000 people
#10 Lithuania 0.0230748 per 1,000 people
Sorry I did get it wrong, the US is in top 10 for murders with firearms.
#1 South Africa 31,918
#2 Colombia 21,898
#3 Thailand 20,032
#4 United States 8,259
#5 Mexico 3,589
And the top 5 for actual numbers of people murdered by firearms...
Oh and thx for the neg karma, I wasn't actually worried at all that US has the highest murder rate in the OECD (x4) or it has the highest death by gun rate in the OECD. Just debating the question posted.
This is the main thing that people have been trying to make the point on as far as gun crime is concerned. It's not that the US has much more crime than other countries, it's that because of the wide legal availability - and correspondingly even wider illegal availability- of firearms mean that any violent crime is much more likely to have a firearm involved.Fred[OZ75] wrote:
#1 South Africa 0.719782 per 1,000 people
#2 Colombia 0.509801 per 1,000 people
#3 Thailand 0.312093 per 1,000 people
#4 Zimbabwe 0.0491736 per 1,000 people
#5 Mexico 0.0337938 per 1,000 people
#6 Belarus 0.0321359 per 1,000 people
#7 Costa Rica 0.0313745 per 1,000 people
#8 United States 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
#9 Uruguay 0.0245902 per 1,000 people
#10 Lithuania 0.0230748 per 1,000 people
Sorry I did get it wrong, the US is in top 10 for murders with firearms.
#1 South Africa 31,918
#2 Colombia 21,898
#3 Thailand 20,032
#4 United States 8,259
#5 Mexico 3,589
And the top 5 for actual numbers of people murdered by firearms...
As far as controlling that crime, as has also been pointed out, it's not that we need tighter laws, it's that we need to better enforce the ones we already have. Most of the firearms used in crime (except for crimes of passion) are obtained illegally.
The Clinton 'Assault Weapons Ban' is a prime example of pointless laws. Since it banned firearms by appearance the main effects were that we couldn't make rifles with bayonet lugs, muzzle compensators, and folding stocks. The first two weren't a big deal but the folding stock part outlawed a number of good concealed carry and survival rifles. Other than that, all the firearms explicitly banned (such as the AK-47 and Uzi) were already regulated by 1934 firearm regulation laws. These governed any fully automatic firearms, the sale and transfer of any firearm, and limit the minimum barrel length of a long arm to 16.5 inches among other things.
These were the laws that made it so not just anyone could walk into a store, drop $2000 and get a Tommy gun, couldn't buy a gun without giving their name and filing documentation, and couldn't carry around sawed off shotguns and whatnot.
As to the gun culture that we have, that comes from our formative days as a nation. Since we had many large creatures willing to attack and possible kill people, not to mention some indigenous peoples quite unhappy with our presence, we needed firearms to protect ourselves. Then they came in quite handy with throwing you limeys out. (Nothing against you Brits, I've got family from the UK actually)
Since then it's mostly been tradition passed down, the joy of the outdoors and the responsibility that comes with a firearm. The second amendment is another part of it since as was said by V quoting some old guy who I can't remember now, "the people should not fear the government, the government should fear the people." We don't really have to worry about the cabinet that outlaws firearms, it's the one that comes later that is likely to turn into a dictatorship. Since we don't want to see that happen, we make sure firearms never get outlawed in the first place.
One thing I'd like to look into at some point is why Australia, which had a somewhat similar environment at the beginning -and still has to worry about people being eaten by animals much more than we do- didn't go the same route. Perhaps it's because it was a penal colony at the start, and weapons were already regulated much more than they were over here. Perhaps it's that they never really developed any firearm production capability of note for themselves and relied primarily on imports, so that when firearms were first heavily regulated it was much easier limit their circulation.
Whatever, I'll figure it out someday when I'm really, really bored.
As for myself, I enjoy target shooting and plinking, though I can't really explain it. There's something primal about it really, and the fact that it does take a good amount of skill and concentration to be good at it just makes it better. My main thing though is collecting, I like to collect things. Mostly good sci-fi and war novels, and guns. I plan on eventually having every standard issue rifle and sidearm used by the US military since the Civil War, plus whatever else I can get my hands on from other militaries. The problem's going to be that I see no reason to get a firearm that I can't fire and some of the older models are either used to the point where they can't safely be fired, or are so pristine that fireing them would almost be criminal -not to mention drop their value in half.
I'll probably have to make replicas of some eventually to get them, but since I will *hopefully* be starting gunsmithing school this fall that shouldn't be impossible when the time comes.
A friend of mine has just completed his collections of every Mauser and Mosin-Nagant models ever produced during the world wars. He has something like 40 rifles in those two collections along with another 10 rifles of various types he just likes and 3 pistols.
Edited becuase I suck at grammar.
Last edited by Blizzard36 (2006-06-20 20:51:13)
this is my last post on this forum there are to many people with their own opinion (there is nothing wrong with that) for me to care to count. I know where i live and i know where i stand. if you want my guns come and get them. honestly you can have them..................................bullets first
I love you.MorbidFetus wrote:
The problem isn't guns. It's criminals, loose law enforcement, and improperly trained morons who haven't learned to respect firearms for their destructive power that cause most of the problems. If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have them. Think about that for a few moments.
P.S. Michael Moore is a fat douche.
Blizzard36...
In fact Australia has very few animals which will use your head as a chew toy, well except sharks and it matters not how many guns you take to the water they Will just act as an anchor so you can't swim away as fast. Always wondered why Americans thought the Australian bush so dangerous when they do have many animals which would like nothing better than use your head as a chew toy (along with any other part of your body).
I do understand the American gun culture in regards to US history, America expanded much more quickly than any set of law enforcement did and during the "wild west" times a gun was your only means to a right, by this time in Australia there was in fact an effective police presents in most areas (if anything an over zealous one rather than none). Also the US fought for it's independence Australia voted for it, Americans had to fight a more warrior native people (in New Zealand the native people actually fought so well the British signs a real treaty with them still enforced to this day), it all goes into a greater gun culture in the US than Australia.
Australia does have a gun culture, this was seen by the British who soon realized in the Boar war that Australian could ride better and shoot straighter than (on average) even there best troops. Also the Boars themselves saw the Australians as more dangerous. I think in the end Australians just trust their government more than Americans do.
In fact Australia has very few animals which will use your head as a chew toy, well except sharks and it matters not how many guns you take to the water they Will just act as an anchor so you can't swim away as fast. Always wondered why Americans thought the Australian bush so dangerous when they do have many animals which would like nothing better than use your head as a chew toy (along with any other part of your body).
I do understand the American gun culture in regards to US history, America expanded much more quickly than any set of law enforcement did and during the "wild west" times a gun was your only means to a right, by this time in Australia there was in fact an effective police presents in most areas (if anything an over zealous one rather than none). Also the US fought for it's independence Australia voted for it, Americans had to fight a more warrior native people (in New Zealand the native people actually fought so well the British signs a real treaty with them still enforced to this day), it all goes into a greater gun culture in the US than Australia.
Australia does have a gun culture, this was seen by the British who soon realized in the Boar war that Australian could ride better and shoot straighter than (on average) even there best troops. Also the Boars themselves saw the Australians as more dangerous. I think in the end Australians just trust their government more than Americans do.
Comparing Guns, handed out to children freely to experiment with from a young age is slightly different than a fertilizer bomb. Firstly to detonate a fertilizer bomb, you need a trigger and detonator as well as the knowledge and time to prepare the bomb, conceal it, transport it and ultimately detonate it. Ie lots of intent and planning has to take place before the act. Both can be used to take human life, but only guns are easy to lift on the spur of the moment, in a fit of rage then shot someone. It would take weeks if not months to prepare for the Oklahoma Bombing. The kids that committed the terrible carnage that day had access to guns from a young age and immersed themselves in gun culture more by calling themselves the trench coat Mafia. Why then are farm boys with access to fertilizer 24/7 not blowing up their schools?