BF2S Forums Haditha

ghettoperson wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

..it's the dead kids that shocked me. americans killing civilians is nothing new, we shouldn't be surprised, but however much you want to justify the killings (for whatever reason) the kids should have been left out of it. Like I said in another post, you can't expect too much from bored/undertrained/undisciplined rednecks when the red mist descends.

See if that were true, this might have been less of an issue in the media. But they were Marines, so theoretically, they were the best of the best of the best of the best.

that is not true, normal marine's get appox. 22 weeks of training to be able to go to combat, boot camp, urban training, unarmed defense... some of these soldiers are still 18 YEARS OLD.... when some of you were 18, did you want to die, and when the rest of you turn 18 do you think you are ready to die... most basic human reaction, fight or flight, when scared, NO ONE knows what they would or would not do, no one... i don't care how "HARD" you think you are.... let someone shove a rifle in your face, and see how you react... some ppl would piss their pants, others... tear the persons head off... this is not the movies, you have to reload, and most of you can't run 5 miles to "da choppa", john rambo was not real(sorry kiddies)....

~Recon

People who have never been " Under Fire " should not mouth off while using their Mommy's computer safe and sound with the protection the U.S. Marines provided him with. The Japs never had at your mom or great grandma did they? They were headed your way until U.S. Marines stopped them. Ask any Filipino on Chinese person what the Japanese occupation was like. Till then Refrain please or step up and show us how its done.

" It would be nice if our ( Un biased ) Media and Liberals would give U.S. Marines the same benefit of the Doubt They gave the Convicted Cop killer Mumia or ted kennedy for that matter. At least until an investigation is concluded. "

Only a twisted, skinny, old bitch like Ann " the Rack " Coulter would come up with a line like that and have the guts to say it Live on TV without a stacked audience.

Did you ever even touch upon the possibility that the insurgents did it to cover their retreat? Its no secret the local every day Iraqi hates them and would gladly point their location out to coalition forces if just for the Hardship they brought on that day. Its is becoming ever so obvious to anyone who doesn't have his had up his ass that insurgents kill by design 100 times the innocents that coalition Forces do. Their Roadside bombs kill indiscriminately and Iraqis know this and hate them for it. People seem so blinded by their hatred for success it unreal.

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-06-12 09:08:59)

Rygar wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Amazing, simply amazing. Where were these howls for the sanctity of human life when the Kurds were being gassed? When al-Zarkawi was beheading civilians and bombing hotels? When Arab teens strap bombs to themselves and blow up bus loads of civilians?

You people are inconsistent in your professed outrage and thus you expose your bias. You have no deep convictions against the slaughter of civilians, only a desire to highlight any perceived error on the part of the U.S.

These insurgents use the civilian population as cover and thus it is they who bear the responsibility of bringing harm to those that they hide amongst. Where is your outrage at these cowardly tactics? Where is your outrage when these cowards blow up Iraqi civilians on a regular basis? When they round up those whom they suspect of collaborating with coalition forces and execute them?


WARNING-WARNING_WARNING The following link is EXTREMELY graphic. It depicts the nature of the insurgents and what they are capable of.

Man, you should get that link off of there....it is appropriately marked with warnings, yes, but there are definately people on here who should not see that (and they will).
And it does very much get your point across.

What is that link of? I take it someone dies but could someone expand on it, other than that it is not particularily pleasant to watch.

-=CB=-krazykarl wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Amazing, simply amazing. Where were these howls for the sanctity of human life when the Kurds were being gassed? When al-Zarkawi was beheading civilians and bombing hotels? When Arab teens strap bombs to themselves and blow up bus loads of civilians?

You people are inconsistent in your professed outrage and thus you expose your bias. You have no deep convictions against the slaughter of civilians, only a desire to highlight any perceived error on the part of the U.S.

These insurgents use the civilian population as cover and thus it is they who bear the responsibility of bringing harm to those that they hide amongst. Where is your outrage at these cowardly tactics? Where is your outrage when these cowards blow up Iraqi civilians on a regular basis? When they round up those whom they suspect of collaborating with coalition forces and execute them?


WARNING-WARNING_WARNING The following link is EXTREMELY graphic. It depicts the nature of the insurgents and what they are capable of.
www.mensnewsdaily.com/video/armstrong-murder2.wmv

AMEN!

Very good point indeed. Saddam committed crimes against humanity equal to Hitler and nobody complained. I guess 6 million Jews is bad but a couple thousands Kurds doesn't matter.

Truthfully, I know not of the placements and exact run-down of the situation, so I can't judge in any way. Could there be a conspiracy to cover up foul play? Could the marines have acted with a lack of discretion? Could the marines have acted justifiably so? Honestly, I just can't judge.

But one thing I am concerned about is by what reasoning these attacks and desecration were taken (against the contractors in Fallujah)? Ugh. Disrespect for human life pisses me off so fucking much. I can't fucking stand it. That beheading...just instills such supreme fucking fury in me, against these psycho-fundamentalist worthless sacks of shit.

travisb05 wrote:

that link is just sick. i dont care how bad you are how can any one cut some dudes head off that is screaming i think and not feel bad about it.and who is armstrong.

If you're raised within surroundings promoting such for survivability, ethical/moral allegiances found in the modern man would be nonexistent (just answering your question, however adrift it may be from the actual topics being discussed).

(P.S. In case you [general onlookers, not you specifically, travisb05] didn't get it, I'm not making some connotation that these people have been brought up in such a context. My response above is a good display of my feelings towards such people. The answer given here is just an alternative to one already exhibited [psycho-fundamentalistm {extremism} for those who can't comprehend correctly].)

Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-12 15:51:40)

RicardoBlanco wrote:

..it's the dead kids that shocked me. americans killing civilians is nothing new, we shouldn't be surprised, but however much you want to justify the killings (for whatever reason) the kids should have been left out of it. Like I said in another post, you can't expect too much from bored/undertrained/undisciplined rednecks when the red mist descends.

Careful with the blanket remarks.

America isn't the only nation that has ever been involved in killing civilians ... read up on your history and you'll find English troops just as accountable for non-combatant deaths, not to mention "insurgents" killing their own.

America also is not full of rednecks, cowboy hats, and people toting guns.  Just like English people don't all have bad teeth and love the queen.

Xietsu wrote:

[pWa]Recon wrote:

this link is just another means to anger americans.... to publicly show the sawing off of a man's head .... is wrong, this is not just a normal arab beheading, for that they use a 2 man team... one who stabs the condemned man in the back to make his body pop up erect, and the second will cut the head off in one swing, this is not the first time i have seen this video, but i hope it is the last, these "people" if you can truly use that word to describe them, SAWED off his head with a bowie / ka-bar style knife, this is in no way an execution, that was slaughter. nuff said, i am going to try to forget that i have yet again laid eyes on this poor mans death video.... and to Darth_Fleder, please edit the link from your post as not to popularize this mans brutal death anymore then it has be already.


~Recon

Yeah..uhm. I missed the part where it was "becoming popular".

remo wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

..it's the dead kids that shocked me. americans killing civilians is nothing new, we shouldn't be surprised, but however much you want to justify the killings (for whatever reason) the kids should have been left out of it. Like I said in another post, you can't expect too much from bored/undertrained/undisciplined rednecks when the red mist descends.

Careful with the blanket remarks.

America isn't the only nation that has ever been involved in killing civilians ... read up on your history and you'll find English troops just as accountable for non-combatant deaths, not to mention "insurgents" killing their own.

America also is not full of rednecks, cowboy hats, and people toting guns.  Just like English people don't all have bad teeth and love the queen.

No, but it is quite full of people similar in intellectual caliber to the typical "redneck".

do you have anything constructive to say... no then stfu... good god i hate morons, but the planet needs people to clean up shit.... i guess.. hey moron... how many people do you think have seen this video????? i am willing to bet that it is more then just the people on this forum, however, if you keep posting it, more people will see it... if someone cut off your head, would you want your mummy and daddy to see it out on the internet, in more and more places everyday... i didn't think so...


~Recon

moron... that is all i can say moron... you must keep that quick wit of yours sharp by attempting to insult your dog, or please god forbid children (if you contaminate the world further), because they are the only mammals that you are smarter then.

~Recon

Xietsu wrote:

remo wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

..it's the dead kids that shocked me. americans killing civilians is nothing new, we shouldn't be surprised, but however much you want to justify the killings (for whatever reason) the kids should have been left out of it. Like I said in another post, you can't expect too much from bored/undertrained/undisciplined rednecks when the red mist descends.

Careful with the blanket remarks.

America isn't the only nation that has ever been involved in killing civilians ... read up on your history and you'll find English troops just as accountable for non-combatant deaths, not to mention "insurgents" killing their own.

America also is not full of rednecks, cowboy hats, and people toting guns.  Just like English people don't all have bad teeth and love the queen.

No, but it is quite full of people similar in intellectual caliber to the typical "redneck".

Again, my original remark:  "careful with the blanket remarks"

There are certainly many types of said people around ... obviously so, since there wouldn't be a stereotype without it.

Cougar wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So they weren't malicious they were just dumb?  Well, that should make Iraqis feel a whole lot safer.

Maybe...careless?

CAUTIOUS PERHAPS!!??

If your car just blew up and killed someone and you thought they were in the house across the street, would you go in carelessly?  You go in cautiously.

Score 1 for people who have no clue as to the simplest of military maneuvers.

Well, really, if you werent there in the first place, your car wouldn't have been blown up.

Xietsu wrote:

[pWa]Recon wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

[pWa]Recon wrote:

this link is just another means to anger americans.... to publicly show the sawing off of a man's head .... is wrong, this is not just a normal arab beheading, for that they use a 2 man team... one who stabs the condemned man in the back to make his body pop up erect, and the second will cut the head off in one swing, this is not the first time i have seen this video, but i hope it is the last, these "people" if you can truly use that word to describe them, SAWED off his head with a bowie / ka-bar style knife, this is in no way an execution, that was slaughter. nuff said, i am going to try to forget that i have yet again laid eyes on this poor mans death video.... and to Darth_Fleder, please edit the link from your post as not to popularize this mans brutal death anymore then it has be already.


~Recon

Yeah..uhm. I missed the part where it was "becoming popular".


No, but it is quite full of people similar in intellectual caliber to the typical "redneck".

do you have anything constructive to say... no then stfu... good god i hate morons, but the planet needs people to clean up shit.... i guess.. hey moron... how many people do you think have seen this video????? i am willing to bet that it is more then just the people on this forum, however, if you keep posting it, more people will see it... if someone cut off your head, would you want your mummy and daddy to see it out on the internet, in more and more places everyday... i didn't think so...


~Recon

I've already replied with contribution and construction. If you've somehow developed such a state of obliviousness that this need be pointed out, you're without a worth deserving time.

(P.S. Funny you reference my "cleaning up shit". True though, I think I do a very good job. To the objective onlooker, I provide quite an avenue of lucidity into the topics at hand, that of which...you arguably are unable to do.)

Do you piss on the doorway's whenever you go places to mark your territory?  If not, your posts over the last few days sure as hell fooled me.  Frankly, you are probably the most annoying thing to ever happen to this forum, I mean, I come here to read different people's views on Haditha, NOT 4 pages worth of Bubbalo and Xietsu's opinion on the matter.  Please do us all a favor and SHUT THE HELL UP and at least figure out the not everyone is going to feel or believe the exact same way YOU do and arguing and bickering and trying to force your logic and vocabulary down everyone's throat is not going to change that.

1. No one cares about Xietsu and Bubbalo's idea's and feelings, however they will debate and comment on them.  That is their opinion just as what they are critiquing is your own.  Get over yourselves.

2. Arguing, bickering, flaming, and overall just harassing and agging the shit on for 4+ pages per thread, does nothing but show everyone not involved in the argument what a couple of dipshits you are.  Say you peace and fucking be done with it.  People try to reply to the original topic only to have their post pushed above the page and onto an older page because you two idiots are busy quoting the ever living shit out of people and trying to show your "bravado" through exaggerated vocabulary and "logical" comparisons.

3. It's annoying.  Another thing that is annoying are the people who send me PM's thinking I can do something about it.  Do I look like a fucking moderator to you people?  Stop sending me messages about these two idiots.  So in a sense, when you two morons stop being aggravating, egotistical jackasses, people will leave me alone and I will also be able to read a thread without having to skip through 4 pages of Xietsu/Bubbalo garbage.

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Back to Haditha

My belief is that the terrorists and insurgents know exactly what they are doing and Haditha is a perfect example.  They know that they cannot win a war against a major world power face to face, so an obvious choice is an insurgency and/or guerrilla war.  They also know that this, like Vietnam and Gulf War 1, is a highly visible conflict through the eyes of the media and they use this to their advantage.  They understand that we are supposed to abide by the Geneva Convention and that they do not have too, what better way to distill fear in an enemy that by mutilations?  Something we cannot do in return.  What better way to attack than with the cover of civilians around?  Whom we cannot attack.  What better way to make the war unpopular for the enemy at home then by making it look like the military isn't doing it's job and is not following the rules?  It destroys any foundation for us being there in the first place if we cannot even maintain these simple few things.

I think the night of Haditha, the Insurgents attacked and made it as clear as possible that they were heading into civilian populated homes.  They may be civilian homes, but they are now civilian homes populated by a hostile enemy and that makes them a legitimate and legal target.  Now whether the insurgents immediately left or were still there...I don't know, but I do know that the Marines had a legitimate reason to be there and to be cautious.  Marines do not deploy to random people's houses in the middle of the night and kill everyone for know reason.  Soldiers are not evil blood thirsty hooligans, most are scared kids barely old enough to drink.  A car in their convoy was blown up and someone died, they are then ordered to seize and search these homes where it is believed the insurgents may be in the middle of the night.  All it would have taken was for one of those civi's to make a abrupt move and a soldier to catch it in the corner of his eye.  It was probably a reflex.  I sincerely doubt that these guys decided to go kill random Iraqi's for no reason other than they felt like it, or they were careless or stupid.  You do not act carelessly and stupid in an environment like that, period.

Xietsu wrote:

remo wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

No, but it is quite full of people similar in intellectual caliber to the typical "redneck".

Again, my original remark:  "careful with the blanket remarks"

There are certainly many types of said people around ... obviously so, since there wouldn't be a stereotype without it.

How is it a "blanket remark" if the quantitative value remains in ambiguity?

Please God, tell me you don't talk like a complete dipshit in real life. Tell me that you are only talking like this on these forums because it is the only life you have and you need to make the most of it. Then at least you have an excuse.