BF2S Forums Should macros be considered cheating?

heres my piece, i dont think its cheating, but definatly anoying

panderiz wrote:

spacebandit72 wrote:

Well I voted no. Now before I get flamed... I think it would be OK under a condition! I would fall under the condition that handicapped people could use it! I have a form of MD that (check my stats) limits me on some things. I think a macro for rapid fire would help me be competitive. I cannot click the mouse fast enough.
I do OK but the only way to fix my KDR is to sit back and snipe. (that gets boring)
I have enough hours in the game now to know what I'm doing and realize I am limited.

I'm not handicapped to the point of being in a wheelchair or anything... I just can't compete in any sports at any level and my motor skills are just bad enough to be annoying. Doctor told me I could stay this way the rest of my life (which isn't that bad) or could be in a wheelchair by next year. They are not sure. strange.

Anyway, if I could improve... I would think a macro would be cheating or right on the edge.

This is a competitive game, it needs to be thought of in similar company to a 'sport'.  Everyone needs to be on a relative playing field, apart from hardware variations (videocard, cpu etc). 

In a competitive environment unfortunately not everyone in the world is the same.  But for it to remain so those competing against each other need to have the same rules.  It is no longer competitive if others have advantages based on automated processes.

Certain macros can create that advantage, although not all. 

By using macros you remove yourself from a partiular part of the community.

No.  This is a game and it should be thought of as such.  It only becomes sport when all participants agree to treat is as such.  That's what leagues and clan-wars are about.

Having paid for the product, it is within every user's right to use any means necessary to bring himself to a level where the game becomes fair for him and everyone else. 

You only violate EA ToS/RoE when you artifically elevate yourself up to a point where the game is no longer fair in respect to others.  If whatever tools you use do not make the game unfair, it's not cheating.  That ToS says so.

Finally, as a personal observation, it seems to me that many people who post here, flatly opposing all macro use, regard BF2 the same as some sort of Track&Field for Nintendo (you know, that game where the person who could press keys faster won).  I think these people either miss out on the chance to use their higher brain functions in BF2, or are unable to do so.  The idea that macros would suddenly be accepted terrifies them, because aside from their reflexes they have little else to bring to the table, and thus would be consistently beaten by people with better tactical thinking or more developed strategy & teamplay.  And you know how fear makes people irrational.  That could explain the amount of nonsense posted.

flarke wrote:

You only violate EA ToS/RoE when you artifically elevate yourself up to a point where the game is no longer fair in respect to others.  If whatever tools you use do not make the game unfair, it's not cheating.  That ToS says so.

I'm fairly sure most people have not witnessed the advantage that particular macros can provide.

If you havn't or don't know then your opinion is hardly worth while. 

If you want to pit mind against mind go play online chess because this game requires skills such as reaction time and coordination.  If you need to use tools to alter the standard gameplay, you have an advantage.

flarke wrote:

DrunkFlea and Panderiz,

You both missed my point entirely.  It's really very simple.  We all know full well that external tools can be used to gain unfair advantage.  (Unfair in the absolute sense, not subjective.)  You probably also realize that there are ways to use the same external tools in a way that keeps the game fair. Case in point: macros. Used by a fully normal, average individual, macros will in many cases make this individual appear a better player than average.  This is unfair.  However, consider a non-average player, for example a person who's had his fingers maimed by an explosion, or who suffers from some other disability that impairs his ability to play the game unaided.  A person like that might use macros just to be able to do some things that you and I take for granted.  His use of macros (or any other 3rd party tools) wouldn't constitute an unfair advantage, they'd just let him play the game with same chances as everyone else.

ToS allows this interpretation as far as I can see.

So if I am reading this correctly, you do agree that macros used by a normal person constitutes an unfair advantage. 

I highly doubt there is much of a following for the FPS genre by those handicapped as you suggest (missing fingers and stuff).  It's hard for me to believe that most who have argued for marco use are in this category.  None of that RDI or whatever they call it fluff.  If it is an injury caused through actually playing the game - IT'S TIME TO STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD!

chuckle_hound wrote:

It's funny to think that gaming is the only "sport" where the use of helping aids is frowned on.

In running, you need some good shoes.  Often, between two players of equal skill it's their shoes that would make the difference.  The same in football, good grip is essential for ball control.

Tennis raquets, badminton, swimming trunks and caps, the whole lot gives people an edge when their normal skills can't get any further.  That's not to say a bad player can suddenly become godlike with a better monitor, mouse or even a set of weapon macros.  If this is a decent hack, then everyone who wants to be competitive will use it.  And eventually it'll be added to some sort of punkbuster blacklist or stopped in some official capacity.

(Additional thought for the day)

And it's not just macros that are stopped.  Let's say you buy a widescreen monitor to get a wide FOV.  That's the same as buying a better pair of trainers isn't it?  And yet most competitive online games don't let you alter the FOV so you lose a section of the top and bottom rather than gaining side views.  Is that really fair for the game maker to say that you can get a benefit from a faster graphics card or processor but not a wider monitor?

on this note, i got heaps better with a new computer, my kill death ratio with assualt rifles is now getting better cos i can see the enemy.

Meh. You already pay for SF weapons to use against non-SF players. If thats not paying for an advantage then you're already deluding yourself.

Also: To those who say that DICE would have said something right now. Ha!  You think they actually have time to deal with every little behavioral issue that pops up?  They barely have time to fix crucial game mechanics so that servers don't crash every 5 rounds.

Last edited by Rocks_AT (2006-07-14 20:24:51)