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wanderlost
Member
+20|5479|Des Moines, IA
I realize this may be more for the North American readers...  But what is this college president thinking?  If you were the head of a liberal school - would you schedule Senator McCain to speak at graduation?  Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of liberal politics, but this seems like it was a bad fit from the start.

What's really sad, is that a bunch of spoiled college kids who have accomplished little to nothing in life think it's okay to boo a guy who has done so much for the country.  Whether you agree with his politics or not, it's pretty naive to think that you can't listen to him for 20 mins and take at least a few nuggets of wisdom from him...  After all, he's a decorated war hero, dedicated his life to public service for 20 years, and may very well be our next President.

To turn your back and boo him is pretty childish - but what do you expect from those types of people?

"Article" http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/ … 8188.shtml
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|5481

wanderlost wrote:

I realize this may be more for the North American readers...  But what is this college president thinking?  If you were the head of a liberal school - would you schedule Senator McCain to speak at graduation?  Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of liberal politics, but this seems like it was a bad fit from the start.

What's really sad, is that a bunch of spoiled college kids who have accomplished little to nothing in life think it's okay to boo a guy who has done so much for the country.  Whether you agree with his politics or not, it's pretty naive to think that you can't listen to him for 20 mins and take at least a few nuggets of wisdom from him...  After all, he's a decorated war hero, dedicated his life to public service for 20 years, and may very well be our next President.

To turn your back and boo him is pretty childish - but what do you expect from those types of people?

"Article" http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/ … 8188.shtml
Despite my vehement opposition to the kind of things he stands for I would be inclined to agree. The students should instead have staged a protest outside the venue instead. It would have been more mannerly and respectful. He is worthy of respect in that as a sufferer of torture himself he finds the act deplorable and broke with the Republican party policy to speak out against it.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487

wanderlost wrote:

war hero
Some would consider this an oxymoron.
wanderlost
Member
+20|5479|Des Moines, IA

Bubbalo wrote:

wanderlost wrote:

war hero
Some would consider this an oxymoron.
So the fact that this guy fought valiantly in a war that he served in makes him a bad guy?  You're right, he should have dishonored himself and his family by refusing to fight in Vietnam as an OFFICER comissioned by the PRESIDENT. 

I love that argument.  A person can't be a "hero" if they fought in a war.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|5661|Salt Lake City

While I would call myself of mildly left leaning moderate, and generally vote Democrat, unless the Dems come up with a really good candidate, I would be inclined to vote for McCain if he made it on the ticket.  I do not, however, believe it will happen.  He isn't conservative enough for the Bible thumpers.

I also agree that the conduct of those students was inappropriate.  They may not agree with some of his politics, but I also think they lumped him with the far right conservative party...a sort of guilty by association.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-05-23 06:53:26)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487
How heroic of him to fight for a corrupt government in Vietnam?
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|5661|Salt Lake City

Bubbalo wrote:

How heroic of him to fight for a corrupt government in Vietnam?
Yes Viet Nam was a mess, but when you are in the military you go where you are told, regardless of whether you agree with the cause or not.  That's just the way it works.
wanderlost
Member
+20|5479|Des Moines, IA

Bubbalo wrote:

How heroic of him to fight for a corrupt government in Vietnam?
You have your heros, others have theirs. 

For the record, he didn't pick the government, and he was enlisted before the war started.  Do you realize what a comissioned officer of the united states military means?  It has nothing to do with politics, or who the president is...  You don't get to pick the wars, presidents, or popular opinion when you enlist. 

I think it's fair to say that he probably believed in what he was doing at the time.  I bet he still believes in what he did for the guys he was tortured along side for a few years.  History has 20/20 vision - lucky for people like you who want to judge everyone's actions afterwards.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487
Sure, but I won't be enlisting in the Oz army because I *know*, historically, they have fought for other countries in wars which are disagreeable, with a few notable exceptions (the most recent being the INTERFET deployment)
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|5661|Salt Lake City

Bubbalo wrote:

Sure, but I won't be enlisting in the Oz army because I *know*, historically, they have fought for other countries in wars which are disagreeable, with a few notable exceptions (the most recent being the INTERFET deployment)
And that is your choice, but to say that McCain had a choice as to whether or not to go to Viet Nam and do what he was ordered to do is just flat out wrong.  Sorry, but you just can't have a military that lets its soldiers and officers decide what causes they agree or disagree with, and allow them to pick and choose where and when they will fight.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5587|USA
Yeah. It wasn't a great idea. But you have to give McCain credit for withstanding and finishing his speach.

Credit to the students for letting thier opinion be known.
wanderlost
Member
+20|5479|Des Moines, IA

Bubbalo wrote:

Sure, but I won't be enlisting in the Oz army because I *know*, historically, they have fought for other countries in wars which are disagreeable, with a few notable exceptions (the most recent being the INTERFET deployment)
We're getting off - topic here...

You don't have to agree that McCain is a hero.  It's a free country, you can cheer Jane Fonda on if you'd rather.  The point of this thread is that 1) The New College should be embarassed for humiliating a valuable citizen; and 2) Students are certainly allowed to protest, but should have (at least) a small amount of class. 

Certainly we can agree on that Bubba(lo)?
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|5619|San Francisco
How abouth those who just don't agree with him turning more and more conservative, away from his moderate stances?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5697|USA

I don't agree with many liberal viewpoints, but I don't go out and heckle their politicians during speeches. That's just ill-mannered.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-23 09:28:34)

Erkut.hv
Member
+124|5660|California

wanderlost wrote:

Students are certainly allowed to protest, but should have (at least) a small amount of class.
That's what happens when parents aren't allowed to whip their kids for being snot nosed little punks. They have it too easy. Have never had to endure hardship.

Starbucks running out of frap is probably the biggest thing they have had to endure.

Guy spends 5 years in a cage and they boo him. They should all get punched in the neck. No respect.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|5661|Salt Lake City

Erkut.hv wrote:

wanderlost wrote:

Students are certainly allowed to protest, but should have (at least) a small amount of class.
That's what happens when parents aren't allowed to whip their kids for being snot nosed little punks. They have it too easy. Have never had to endure hardship.

Starbucks running out of frap is probably the biggest thing they have had to endure.

Guy spends 5 years in a cage and they boo him. They should all get punched in the neck. No respect.
I say we bring back the wood shed!! 
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|5696|Atlanta, GA USA
The funniest thing to me is that in his speech he talks about how we should be tolerant of others' viewpoints, even if you don't agree with them.  It sounds to me like they could have learned something from it.
Here is his speech:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008409

McCain wrote:

Americans deserve more than tolerance from one another, we deserve each other's respect, whether we think each other right or wrong in our views, as long as our character and our sincerity merit respect, and as long as we share, for all our differences, for all the noisy debates that enliven our politics, a mutual devotion to the sublime idea that this nation was conceived in--that freedom is the inalienable right of mankind, and in accord with the laws of nature and nature's Creator.
howler_27
Member
+90|5612
Personally, I think that it shows just what is wrong with where this country's standards are heading with it's younger generations.  It all boils down to RESPECT.  He is a dignitary of the US government who was invited to THAT school to speak.  Obviously, they thought something of him to ask him to show.  It doesn't matter if you support him or not.  You shut the hell up, sit on your ass, and listen to what the man has to say in his time to speek.  If you don't want to, it's your right to get off of your ass and walk out.  However, don't make a fool of yourself after 4+ years of so-called education by booing and hissing like it's a damned event out of a midieval courtyard.

I'm not that old myself, but I do know the difference between a respectfull way of dealing with varrying opinions vs being a total asshole of society and screaming at somebody as soon as they say something that offends your point of view.  People just need to grow the hell up.  There are too many kids out there that spent too much time sitting in the corner during a time-out as a child, when they could have been corrected for their tantrums by one quick hand blasting them across the ass.   It all starts with the parents, and if things keep going the way they do, in the next 100 yrs, we're gonna have a bunch of 50 year olds suckin' their thumbs and asking for the bad guys for a time out instead of taking care of buisness.

Just my .02 as always, lol.
mikkel
Member
+383|5526
Silly kiddies.
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|5522|Seattle

https://xs201.xs.to/xs201/06212/farkspanking.jpg
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|5476|Ohio

wanderlost wrote:

So the fact that this guy fought valiantly in a war that he served in makes him a bad guy?  You're right, he should have dishonored himself and his family by refusing to fight in Vietnam as an OFFICER comissioned by the PRESIDENT. 

I love that argument.  A person can't be a "hero" if they fought in a war.
He fought in an unjust war so no, he is not a hero. I'll give him some respect for what he went through as a POW but that's about it. His recent "patch up" session with Jerry Falwell just shows he's being molded into the "perfect" presidential candidate.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|5660|California

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

wanderlost wrote:

Students are certainly allowed to protest, but should have (at least) a small amount of class.
That's what happens when parents aren't allowed to whip their kids for being snot nosed little punks. They have it too easy. Have never had to endure hardship.

Starbucks running out of frap is probably the biggest thing they have had to endure.

Guy spends 5 years in a cage and they boo him. They should all get punched in the neck. No respect.
I say we bring back the wood shed!! 
Erk is shuddering.... I remember the wooden spoon, with the holes in it so it would go faster. My first lesson in aerodynamics and wind resistance.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5697|USA

howler_27 wrote:

Personally, I think that it shows just what is wrong with where this country's standards are heading with it's younger generations.
What irritates me is that older people will look at me (in my mid-twenties) and associate me with the young, rude Americans so favored by our media. Makes life a bit difficult.
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|5522|Seattle

MorbidFetus wrote:

wanderlost wrote:

So the fact that this guy fought valiantly in a war that he served in makes him a bad guy?  You're right, he should have dishonored himself and his family by refusing to fight in Vietnam as an OFFICER comissioned by the PRESIDENT. 

I love that argument.  A person can't be a "hero" if they fought in a war.
He fought in an unjust war so no, he is not a hero. I'll give him some respect for what he went through as a POW but that's about it. His recent "patch up" session with Jerry Falwell just shows he's being molded into the "perfect" presidential candidate.
So what exactly would YOU consider a hero if he isn't one in your mind?
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
mikkel
Member
+383|5526
'Hero' is thrown around way too much these days, and of course entirely subjectively, but whether or not you percieve him as such is irrelevant to the case. If a man is asked to give a speech, you either shut up and listen or walk away, no matter how much you disagree with him. You achieve nothing by being an immature brat, or an arrogant bastard who fancies himself important enough to be allowed to interrupt others at his leisure.

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