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Cougar
Banned
+1,962|5690|Dallas
DISCLAIMER:  This thread is not intended to be "racist" nor is it intended to alienate any forum member from the discussion due to race, color or creed.  Due to the nature of the subject, please reframe from posting anything other than a mature and respectful replies that add to the discussion.  Anything that I deem inappropriate will be reported to a moderator immediately to ensure the quality of the discussion.  In other words, don't be a bunch of dumbasses.  Thank You.


Racism in America.  Do you think it is a problem or is it just a figment of our imagination left over from a time of segregation?  Personally, I think racism is brewed over time and someone is not just born a bigot.  It's happening to me day by day, I can tell that I am becoming more and more racist.  Or am I?  Here is my story...

I grew up in a small town of around 1,000 people in Central Oklahoma.  We literally didn't have any African Americans in the town until I was about 16 and a family of 4 moved into town.  The two boys were the same age as me and we went to the same classes and I got to know them real well.  After a while we had become pretty close friends but it seemed like alot of the other kids didn't feel the same way, they were constantly harassed and one night even had a cross burned in their yard.  Eventually they moved.  As soon as I graduated, I joined the USAF where I went to basic with several African Americans, I went to Tech School with several African Americans and at every station I went to I had several African American friends.  Some of my best friends in life have been blacks.  None of them EVER gave me a reason to hate, distrust or feel awkward around them, in fact after a while I didn't even really consciously realize they were black, they were just another friend or acquaintance.

Skip to Oct 2005.  I move to Dallas TX.  Everything is going nicely until one day I walk into a convenience store to buy some gas.  A black man was walking through the door as I was walking in and looked at me.  I kindly nodded my head and said "Howdy" and kept walking through.  The guy swings around and says "Hey!  WTF you call me nigger?".  I turned around and said "What?" and he said it again.  I told him that I just said Hi and he then he says "Thats what I thought." and walks out to his car and leaves.  Now I'm standing here next to the guy at the counter and we're looking at each other with the classic WTF looks on our faces.  I just shrugged it off as maybe the guy was having a bad day and went about my business.

Skip to Feb 2006.  I move into a new apartment that is closer to work.  The neighbor hood is "nice" and the apartment complex is very well maintained, the only problem is that 80 percent of the residents are African American.  At the time I could care less, it was clean, cheap and close to work.  The third day I was here I came up the stairs and there were two black guys sitting on their porch watching me.  As I walked into my apartment and shut the door I heard one of them say "Fuckin white boy movin in next me.".  Now I'm thinking to myself, "What a fucking asshole", and again, went about my business.  The VERY NEXT DAY, my girlfriend is walking up the stairs and I opened the door for her and the same guy starts going "Hey baby why don't you come over here and holla at me?" at which point I poked my head out the door and said "Hey asshole, why don't you shut your fat lips!" and shut the door.   Ever since that day, every time I make the slightest sound, the cops show up to my door saying that someone called the cops because it sounded like I was beating my girlfriend up.  They seriously call the cops at least once a week and I know it's that asshole doing it.  So I knocked on his door and told him if he called the cops again I was going to wreck his face.  Now the cops show up once every two weeks.

Skip to Last month.  I walk out to my truck only to find that the passengers side window has been completely shattered and my CD player is missing.  I'm thinking to myself automatically (this is where the "I am becoming racist part comes in) "some fucking nigg** just broke into my shit" AUTOMATICALLY, that pops into my head.  Sure enough, I come home from work one night and catch a black dude breaking into a car that was three spots down from where I was parked the night mine was broke into.  I quietly parked my truck on the other side of the apartment, reached under my seat and grabbed the sawed off axe handle I keep in my truck.  I snuck up real quiet behind this guy and hit this son of a bitch in the back as hard as I could and knocked his ass straight to the ground.  Then I commenced to kick the ever living shit out of him.  Someone heard this asshole screaming and called the cops, who promptly showed up about 5 minutes into me kicking the shit out of this guy.  They pulled me off and put him in handcuffs after seeing the car window was broken and there was a CD player laying on the ground.

So the cops are asking me what happened and I'm telling them and they are asking the black dude what happened.  The guy says that he saw me breaking into this car with an axe handle and he was trying to stop me.  Mind you, I'm standing here in a pair of black slacks and a button up long sleeve shirt with a tie and he is saying that I was breaking into a car.  Of course the police knew he was full of shit and hauled his ass off to jail.  While I'm standing there filling out the report a black lady comes down and starts yelling racism and how its typical that a black man gets beat up and thrown in jail and the white man gets off scott free.  Then people start waking up and pretty soon there is like 10 people down there.  This is the best part...the guy who's car was getting broke into at the time comes down and starts calling me a "motherfucking KKK nigger hater"!!!  I JUST STOPPED SOMEONE FROM BREAKING INTO HIS CAR AND HE IS CALLING ME A KKK ***** HATER!!????  FUCK YOU!  Eventually the cops made everyone go home and I ended up going to Irving to stay with my girlfriend until things cooled down a bit.

Skip to 2 days ago.  I come out of my apartment to come to work and there are three black kids sitting on the stairs in my way.  I said politly "Excuse me", and they turn around and tell me to "Go back to Europe".  At which point I told them to "go back to Africa and get the fuck out of my way".  One kid who apparently likes to immitate 50 Cent stands up and asks me if I'm some kind of racist.  I'm standing there thinking to myself....this kid just told me to go back to Europe, but I'M the racist?  I decided to just say "whatever, sorry" and go around to the next staircase.  As I am driving to work I am just getting more and more pissed off and as I work, more and more pissed off.  I start thinking about how if I lived 50 years ago, THAT would not have happened, period.  Ever since then, every time I see a black person that i do not know, my mind starts reacting in a defensive manner, thinking and plotting what to do if this guy does something.  I caught myself moving closer to a stack of canes in a convenient store the other day because there was a black guy behind me, and if he pulled something I was going to smack him with a cane and commence a beatdown....AGAIN. 

My girlfriend has told me several times that people have tried to sell her drugs or tried to hit on her in the short trip between her car and my front door, which is about 10 feet.  Thats what really pisses me off is when they mess with her.  I truly am afraid that something could happen to her, so much in fact, that I don't let her come over alone anymore and I walk her from the car to the door and back. 

I guess what I am asking here is, is it just me becoming racist?  Am I justified by my experience to feel and act this way?  Am I at fault or are they?  What would you do in this situation?

Even in the media you can see what I am starting to refer to as reverse racism.  Mayor Nagin of New Orleans said that "It is time to rebuild New Orleans, A CHOCOLATE, New Orleans".  Now what if the mayor of Oklahoma City says "It is time to rebuild OKC, A MARSHMALLOW OKC."  Even something as large as a Hurricane, brings out the "America is racist" voice, even though white, Indian, Asian, Mexican and all other races in the area were affected but all you here are black people saying that nothing was done because the city was full of blacks.  Whats more sad is the fact that the shit actually flys and people give them sympathy and cast an open ear to hear it.  Do I even need to mention Kanye West? 

You have things like BET that has black music and black VJ's and black commercials and it's called Black Entertainment Television.  But what is there was a WET, White Entertainment Television?  perhaps it only play Rock or Country music and sold products that depicted the perfect stereotypical family in the suburbs and nothing was ever mentioned of other races?  It would not fly, people would deem it racist and it would be shut down.  Organizations like the NAACP that grants scholarships to African Americans ONLY. What would happen is a white person from South Africa applied for a scholarship from the NAACP?  I'm sure he wouldn't get it.

I don't know...I'm starting to ramble on but I guess what I am saying is....is this right or is this wrong?  What would you do in my situation and is what I am experiencing wrong or am I justified in feeling the way I do?  Is racism starting to reverse itself where minorities are becoming the bigots and majorities becoming the hated?  It seems that way to me.
Reject_Wolf
Former Karkand Addict
+32|5508|Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Very few are like the ones you described, but I have met some of them that act like that.  It is racism, people just don't understand and claim that my ancestors enslaved theres so they have every right, but guess what, I am 1/2 native american...
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5600|Canberra, AUS
What you did is totally right. Those two are crazy bitches - so up themselves and so fearful of others they will ignore the most blatant facts to spread the blame around.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487
I think they were unreasonable, but you overreacted.  As to your fearfulness.......perhaps, but that's more the result of societal beliefs as opposed to personal.
OSS-CAPT-SPEIRS
Member
+13|5657|Orange County, CA
Sounds like you need to move.  I personally wouldn't subject myself to that type of environment regardless of who is in the right.  Racism isn't something that occurs naturally, it is either taught or developed through experience and encounters such as yours.  I have a three year old daughter and it is pretty interesting watching human development up close.  She knows nothing except what she is taught or sees through other peoples examples or reactions.  She isn't afraid of the dark and was never afraid of bugs, until one day when she was in the bathroom with my wife watching a cricket.  She was curious and wanted to pick it up and hold it in her hand, which she did.  Then the cricket jumped out of her hand onto my wife's leg and my wife started screaming.  Seeing this, my daughter started crying and got really scared.  After that, she wouldn't go into the bathroom for three days and is now scared shitless of bugs.  A conditioned response based on a first hand experience.

Look at all the mutual mistrust we see around us today. Where does it come from?  It is taught to us everyday from first hand experiences and through the mass media such as television, magazines and newspapers.  Watch the news on any given night and it is pretty amazing.  It is all bad news.  Bird Flu is going to kill us all, global warming, fuel crisis, Iran going nuclear, illegal immigration, are you safe are you in your own home, alligators killing people in Florida, ice caps melting, sea level rising, ozone layer depletion, killer asteroids coming, bigger hurricanes coming this season and on and on.  It is this constant drum beat of bad news meant to scare the shit out of us and this puts people on edge.

Not the answer, just an opinion.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|5690|Dallas

OSS-CAPT-SPEIRS wrote:

Sounds like you need to move.  I personally wouldn't subject myself to that type of environment regardless of who is in the right.  Racism isn't something that occurs naturally, it is either taught or developed through experience and encounters such as yours.  I have a three year old daughter and it is pretty interesting watching human development up close.  She knows nothing except what she is taught or sees through other peoples examples or reactions.  She isn't afraid of the dark and was never afraid of bugs, until one day when she was in the bathroom with my wife watching a cricket.  She was curious and wanted to pick it up and hold it in her hand, which she did.  Then the cricket jumped out of her hand onto my wife's leg and my wife started screaming.  Seeing this, my daughter started crying and got really scared.  After that, she wouldn't go into the bathroom for three days and is now scared shitless of bugs.  A conditioned response based on a first hand experience.

Look at all the mutual mistrust we see around us today. Where does it come from?  It is taught to us everyday from first hand experiences and through the mass media such as television, magazines and newspapers.  Watch the news on any given night and it is pretty amazing.  It is all bad news.  Bird Flu is going to kill us all, global warming, fuel crisis, Iran going nuclear, illegal immigration, are you safe are you in your own home, alligators killing people in Florida, ice caps melting, sea level rising, ozone layer depletion, killer asteroids coming, bigger hurricanes coming this season and on and on.  It is this constant drum beat of bad news meant to scare the shit out of us and this puts people on edge.

Not the answer, just an opinion.
Ohh I'm moving alright.  I went and got a cancellation on my lease yesterday.  Time to move out of the "ghetto" and let that type of people ruin their own lives through being a bunch of thugs and hoodlums, not mine.  I think people that complain about living in a ghetto and how under-privileged they are need to shut up, it's the people that make it a ghetto, not the location.  My apartment complex is a perfect example of such.  instead of standing up as law abiding and decent people, they allow this type of thing to happen, and then complain when the cops show up and regulate criminal activity.


By the way, nice post mate.  +1
Chillay-14
Member
+21|5604
im australian and im not racist to other colours nor racises exept americans i got a thing against em'

then again name a country that doesnt
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487

Cougar wrote:

instead of standing up as law abiding and decent people, they allow this type of thing to happen, and then complain when the cops show up and regulate criminal activity.
Uh-huh.  And you don't think that being born into that situation has maybe just a little to do with it?

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-05-22 01:34:10)

aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|5718

Cougar wrote:

I guess what I am asking here is, is it just me becoming racist?  Am I justified by my experience to feel and act this way?  Am I at fault or are they?  What would you do in this situation?
When you're living amongst racists, it is hardly surprising that you feel animosity towards them, especially with the way that you have been treated.  People absorb what goes on around them and they take little pieces and it becomes part of their personality.  When you move to a new area, people talk slightly differently, use different idioms and eventually you absorb that.  It is the same for distasteful traits such as racism, sadly, but inevitable.

However I do question your action with the axe handle.  You don't know that it was that guy that attacked your car.  Sure he's doing the same thing just down the street but that doesn't justify you trying to kill him.  Call the cops, let them sort it out or you could have wound up on an attempted murder charge.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|5690|Dallas

Bubbalo wrote:

Cougar wrote:

instead of standing up as law abiding and decent people, they allow this type of thing to happen, and then complain when the cops show up and regulate criminal activity.
Uh-huh.  And you don't think that being born into that situation has maybe just a little to do with it?
What?  Being born into a place thats 3 blocks away from one of the most ritzy malls in Dallas, next to the George Bush Turnpike and near some of the best paying businesses to work for in the whole city?  If they can afford to live in an apartment complex that is only 2 years old, surronded by businesses and malls, then no, I don't believe that has anything to do with it.  I don't live in Compton, and I don't live in a slum.  There is no excuse for it.  The damn apartment complex has a 24 security guard that is supposed to keep things like this from happening but obviously doesn't.

Also, the whole "They were born into it" bullshit doesn't fly with me.  I don't care who you are or where you were born, it comes down to a matter of will and personal stength to pull yourself out of a bad situation and make good for you and your family.  I personally came from the backwoods of Oklahoma, I was not rich and by some people's standards I would have been considered poor.  I worked on a hogfarm raking shit and picking up afterbirth with my bare hands from the age of 12 to the age of 17 at which time I joined the USAF.  I went to a Class A public school in a po-dunk town and recieve no benifits or scholorships because of my race or creed.  I came from nothing and made something of myself.  At age 21, I have a better job and make more money than most people my age and probably most people I went to school with for the mere fact I chose not to let my enviroment and the situation I was "born into" direct the rest of my life. 

These people who whine and cry about living in a ghetto because "I'm black, and I was born into the ghetto and therfore I will always live in a ghetto" are full of shit and just plain lazy.  I have a friend that is from Somalia, who was there when the whole "Black Hawk Down" thing happened.  This guy literally came from the bottom of no where, working in a sweatshop making T-shirts and Shoes for a dollar a day from the age of 5, until he saved up enough money for a passport and plane ticket to America.  Once here he got a job washing windows until he could afford new clothes and a car.  Then he saved up money to take computer classes at a community college, WASHING WINDOWS.  Once he got his "degree" he got a job working desktop support for Dell, saved his money for more technical degrees and a more reliable vehicle, until FINALLY, he got a job working at the same company I work for.  This guy makes nearly twice as much as me now and he came from a shittier place than any "ghetto" in America can even dream of being.  So don't feed me that "born into it bullshit.  Ohh and BTW, he is black and his English isn't that great, so don't pull the "I'm black and no one will hire me" crap either.

Life is what you make of it, you are not what life makes you.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487

Cougar wrote:

Also, the whole "They were born into it" bullshit doesn't fly with me.  I don't care who you are or where you were born, it comes down to a matter of will and personal stength to pull yourself out of a bad situation and make good for you and your family.
2 points:

1) I would strongly disagree that it comes down to will and personal strength

2) Even if it does, someone with the same will and personal strength born into a better situation still has it better
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|5690|Dallas

Bubbalo wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Also, the whole "They were born into it" bullshit doesn't fly with me.  I don't care who you are or where you were born, it comes down to a matter of will and personal stength to pull yourself out of a bad situation and make good for you and your family.
2 points:

1) I would strongly disagree that it comes down to will and personal strength

2) Even if it does, someone with the same will and personal strength born into a better situation still has it better
1) Your trying to tell me you don't think it has anything to do with it?  I read a few months ago that a double amputee climbed Mt. Everest and trying to say that no matter what the will or personal strength you can't move out of a bad neighborhood!?  Go tell the double amputee that personal strength and will power contribute nothing to achieving a goal.

2) No shit.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|5690|Dallas

aardfrith wrote:

However I do question your action with the axe handle.  You don't know that it was that guy that attacked your car.  Sure he's doing the same thing just down the street but that doesn't justify you trying to kill him.  Call the cops, let them sort it out or you could have wound up on an attempted murder charge.
When did I say I was planning on murdering him?  I said I beat the shit out of him.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487

Cougar wrote:

1) Your trying to tell me you don't think it has anything to do with it?  I read a few months ago that a double amputee climbed Mt. Everest and trying to say that no matter what the will or personal strength you can't move out of a bad neighborhood!?  Go tell the double amputee that personal strength and will power contribute nothing to achieving a goal.
And how much did it cost him?

Cougar wrote:

2) No shit.
Well then you can't very well blame them can you?

Cougar wrote:

This guy literally came from the bottom of no where, working in a sweatshop making T-shirts and Shoes for a dollar a day from the age of 5, until he saved up enough money for a passport and plane ticket to America.
Trust me, if he were in a real sweatshop, he wouldn't have had the money to save.

Cougar wrote:

Once here he got a job washing windows until he could afford new clothes and a car.  Then he saved up money to take computer classes at a community college, WASHING WINDOWS.
Washing windows actually pays very well.
afrocullions
Banned
+8|5476
you found some ignorant people in your neighborhood ? congrats ...

no reason to hate an entire race
MastersMom
YOUR mom goes to college
+61|5580

Chillay-14 wrote:

im australian and im not racist to other colours nor racises exept americans i got a thing against em'

then again name a country that doesnt
As an American, I'm wondering...What is this THING that you've got against me??  What did I personally do to have a negative impact on your life?  Or better yet, what did any one individual American do to you?  I'm just curious as to why my country (which includes white, black, mexican, spanish, italian, french, german(insernt nearly every other nationality here) and even australians) is on your hit list?  And does that include all Americans?  Even the Australian/Americans??

It just seems to me that your statement is a pretty powerful one and I want to know what has given you such conviction???
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487
2 factors:

1) The way America as a country acts, which automatically makes people assume the people are like that

2) The stories I've heard about American tourists.  And American celebrities are often pretty arrogant
afrocullions
Banned
+8|5476
jealousy
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5487
Oh, yes, you've got us there.  Oh how I wished in a country with all those gun deaths.  Oh how I wish I were targetted by terrorists the world over.  And oh how I wish I could live in the birthplace of Scientology.




Can you smell the sarcasm?  'Cos it's so palpable I can feel it.
mrboogman
You talkin' to me? Well I'm the only one here!
+13|5628|Germany
There are assholes in every country and every race, the problem is that action leads to reaction. Probably the guys have been suffering from similar experiences and decided to give some of it back to the white fucker next door... I don't really know if there can be a solution to all of this stupid racist nonsense, I mean there is no point of debating with a racist, every racist does think he is perfectly right and the other guy is the asshole.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5641

mrboogman wrote:

There are assholes in every country and every race, the problem is that action leads to reaction. Probably the guys have been suffering from similar experiences and decided to give some of it back to the white fucker next door... I don't really know if there can be a solution to all of this stupid racist nonsense, I mean there is no point of debating with a racist, every racist does think he is perfectly right and the other guy is the asshole.
agree. Rascim began largely in america after when the black ppl were free... thats what im thinking since the ppl who were their "owners" lost their property might get pretty pissed... but it was how ppl were raised mainly. But a long time before in china when the westerners conquered hong kong, the chinese started calling caucasians "forign devils", but seriously if ur country has been taken over by another nation, wouldnt u hate them? just like how the rest of europe hated nazi germany and german ppl. But if you should have the rights to protest when illegal immagrants are stealing ur stuff and destroying ur community. that for me is not rasicm, that is just a protest against the illegal immagrants... but if they burn the mexican flag and yell all latinos are thievs, murderers etc... that is rasicm
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|5718

Cougar wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

However I do question your action with the axe handle.  You don't know that it was that guy that attacked your car.  Sure he's doing the same thing just down the street but that doesn't justify you trying to kill him.  Call the cops, let them sort it out or you could have wound up on an attempted murder charge.
When did I say I was planning on murdering him?  I said I beat the shit out of him.

Cougar wrote:

I quietly parked my truck on the other side of the apartment, reached under my seat and grabbed the sawed off axe handle I keep in my truck.  I snuck up real quiet behind this guy and hit this son of a bitch in the back as hard as I could and knocked his ass straight to the ground.  Then I commenced to kick the ever living shit out of him.
There.  That's where.  Attacking with a weapon and then kicking someone for several minutes when they are already down and only stopping when the police turned up.  Do you call that "reasonable force"?
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5627|New York

Bubbalo wrote:

Oh, yes, you've got us there.  Oh how I wished in a country with all those gun deaths.  Oh how I wish I were targetted by terrorists the world over.  And oh how I wish I could live in the birthplace of Scientology.




Can you smell the sarcasm?  'Cos it's so palpable I can feel it.
Yup, But guess what, Its those same people the original poster is talking about that Cause the deaths with the guns. Its not the guns that Kill its the people behind them. Yup, Ive been to your fine country(founded By the british as a prison colony) And found Just as many gun toteing austrailian rednecks in the outback while building roads. I guess Your people still dont discriminate against the aboriginise sp? peoples of your country(your ancestors STOLE there land also). Slavery runs DEEP in your countrys past also. The mass murders of the native peoples back in the late 1800's is proof of that. So please get off the high horse and face the fact that you are no different than any american.

I for one am one of the gun toteing Americans you speak of, but mine is legal, and i have had to use it once. And guess why,,,,,, Because a person of color decided to Try and carjack my car with my wife in it when i stopped into a station to get a pack of smokes. I come out and find this guy in the drivers seat putting my car in gear while holding onto my wifes shirt keeping her from exiting the car. I shot the guy in the chest. After many court dates, i was aquitted of ALL charges. I was told by my lawyer that if i had'nt shot to kill, that i would have been sued by the guy and Id be paying him the rest of my life. Why shoot to kill might you ask? Because If you dont"even if a person is in YOUR house, In court they can Lie there way to a not guilty verdict because theres always a reason the person could have been in the house"(like maybe finding something to eat, or drink) which Jurys and judges figure Arnt life threatening. 

On one other occasion I was forced to pull my Legal weapon on a guy who decided to TRY and carjack my car at a stop light with my buddy in the car. Problem is, we were Just comeing back from deer hunting and both had .44mag Ruger super redhawks on us. needless to say, Mr Carjacker and his .25 cal pistol turned white as a ghost and dropped his weapon and we in turn went to the nearest police car and turned in the weapon and pointed out the guy, who was arrested.

So you tell me, Does this make me a racist? Oh, and because of your countrys past history, I am not judging you, I dont disslike Ausies at all. But you sit and Judge me?
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5627|New York
here.  That's where.  Attacking with a weapon and then kicking someone for several minutes when they are already down and only stopping when the police turned up.  Do you call that "reasonable force"?



I do.
Dangermouse1984
Member
+1|5476

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

here.  That's where.  Attacking with a weapon and then kicking someone for several minutes when they are already down and only stopping when the police turned up.  Do you call that "reasonable force"?



I do.
I would agree that cougar made the right choice, whether it was the same person that broke into his car or not!!! If he had called the police the theif would have been long gone, if he'd tried to approach him, he probably woulda been beaten shitless himself.  In times like that the only force to use is the SO CALLED " Unnecessary force"   A law abiding citizen should have the right to protect his or the property of others!!! (unfortunatly this isn't seen in the eyes of the law, But Fu** Them, if you ask me!!!)

The problem with racism is a majority of people bring it on themselves, a selection of black people are just as racist & in as large numbers as caucasion racists. 

This Ghetto crap is true & false, when you grow up, you accept other peoples influences as you know nothing different, it takes a life changing event or a eye opener to really make you realise there is more than what you've got. And to try!!  Yes it does take the will power  to achieve want you want, but v few people have the will power & the courage to rise against such a powerful environment.
But they do really need to stop the THEM & US routine aswell, as its BS!!!

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