UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6664

Doug Soderstrom
Common Dreams

http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm

wrote:


"In Hitler’s Germany there was a determined effort to brainwash the people so they might support Mein Fuhrer’s efforts to conquer the world. However, what if one were to suggest that much the same is occurring in the United States of America, that there has been a determined effort through the socializing influence of our schools, the government, the mass media, the churches we attend, even that of our own parents, to pressure us into believing (just as Hitler) that our country has received the blessing of God, and because of this, we therefore have not only the right, but more importantly, through the use of military weapons, a divine responsibility to see that the world acquiesces to our needs and expectations. Just as Hitler in the 1930’s prepared his countrymen to accept the authoritarian control of the Nazi government, much the same may well be occurring in the United States."
Does any of the research or observations noted and linked on the page above worry you?  Do you think that it's all nonsense, and that there have never been more freedoms than there are today?  Do you think the elections would be better if they were always rigged to give victory to the right, and anyone central or left wing is a traitor who wants to destroy your way of life? 

Or do you think that the danger is real, and that more and more freedoms are being compromised for the 'greater good', whilst propaganda proclaims the exact opposite?  Do you believe that fascism speading from within is a far greater threat to freedom than terrorist attacks? 

Discuss.
rh27
Not really a Brit
+51|6607|England
IMHO, as far as America is concerned, they've already lost most of their freedoms. They don't need propaganda even, because currently it's only diverse people who are claiming this, and the more they claim that these freedoms are threatened, the less likely people are to believe it.
The fact that schoolchildren also have to learn a pledge of alleigance from an early age, seriously what is the point. When I first heard they did this, I thought it was a joke.
Finally, something I never understood, can someone explain how a 'true democracy' can exist based on a 2-party system? (Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how elections work in the USA)
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6647|Westminster, California
The main difference is that we believe in sharing freedom with the world and the nazis/fascist were into murder and extermination.
Spreading freedom, by bayonet point when needed, is our duty as free people.
Nice try though.

Last edited by yerded (2006-05-20 16:13:28)

UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6664

yerded wrote:

The main difference is that we believe in sharing freedom with the world and the nazis were into murder and extermination.
Spreading freedom, by bayonet point when needed, is our duty as free people.
Nice try though.
Remember that Nazi's were fascist, but you don't need to be a Nazi to be fascist.  Nazi's had a belief in the superiority of the Aryan race which wasn't common to all fascist regimes. 

Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi

wrote:

Fascists tended to believe that all elements in society should be unified through Corporatism to form an "Organic State"; this meant that Fascists often had no strong opinion on the question of race, as it was only the State and nation that mattered. Nazism, on the other hand, emphasized the Aryan race or "Volk" over state to the point where the state simply became a means through which the Aryan race could realize its true destiny. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany came close to war against each other in 1934, when the Austrofascist Chancellor of Austria Englebert Dolfuss was assassinated on Hitler's orders.
This thread is intended to discuss the threat of fascism, not Nazism.
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6581|England
No. Americas idea of the greater good is happy singing yanks driving 10 litre trucks for ever after and imo why the hell not. There's no evil masterplan on americas part, the only freedoms been curtailed rarely affect the majority of its people anyway, in fact america should use its power to activly invade countries who squander there natural resources and treat there citizens like shit. It would piss people off but at least that countries future generations would not be living in poverty while there leader rides around in a hundred grands worth of merc. Team America, World Police........ fuck yeah.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6665|United States of America
Obviously America does not Invade countries, kill off a portion of the population, declare that country as part of the American Empire, rule the country, or make Volkswagons.

These would be the big difference between a Fascist country and America.

As much as some retards with a doctorate in Europe would like to make you think that America is Evil and the same as Nazi Germany and the USSR; you have to be mindless and one demensional to not see the difference.


Now go out a sieze the day.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6664

Major_Spittle wrote:

Obviously America does not Invade countries, kill off a portion of the population, declare that country as part of the American Empire, rule the country, or make Volkswagons.

These would be the big difference between a Fascist country and America.

As much as some retards with a doctorate in Europe would like to make you think that America is Evil and the same as Nazi Germany and the USSR; you have to be mindless and one demensional to not see the difference.


Now go out a sieze the day.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not, but in case you are:

Don't know if you've watched the news, but America does invade countries.

You are clearly referring to the holocaust when you say 'killing off a portion of the population,' but that was specific to the Nazi's, and not a requirement to qualify as fascist.

Neo-colonialism wouldn't involve declaring countries as part of an 'Empire', although the concept and outcomes are similar.

Staging coups to ensure a leadership who complies with your wishes saves the trouble of direct rule.

And finally Volkswagens were manufactured in Pennsylvania between 1978 and 1988,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_of_America

Can you post a link to these 'retards with a doctorate' who say that America is the same as the USSR or Nazi Germany?  I've seen alot of Neo-Nazi American sites who want an America similar to Nazi Germany, but I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that some like that would really happen (apart from the Neo-Nazi's, of course). 

And Carpe Diem has more of a ring.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6665|United States of America

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Obviously America does not Invade countries, kill off a portion of the population, declare that country as part of the American Empire, rule the country, or make Volkswagons.

These would be the big difference between a Fascist country and America.

As much as some retards with a doctorate in Europe would like to make you think that America is Evil and the same as Nazi Germany and the USSR; you have to be mindless and one demensional to not see the difference.


Now go out a sieze the day.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not, but in case you are:

Don't know if you've watched the news, but America does invade countries.

You are clearly referring to the holocaust when you say 'killing off a portion of the population,' but that was specific to the Nazi's, and not a requirement to qualify as fascist.

Neo-colonialism wouldn't involve declaring countries as part of an 'Empire', although the concept and outcomes are similar.

Staging coups to ensure a leadership who complies with your wishes saves the trouble of direct rule.

And finally Volkswagens were manufactured in Pennsylvania between 1978 and 1988,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_of_America

Can you post a link to these 'retards with a doctorate' who say that America is the same as the USSR or Nazi Germany?  I've seen alot of Neo-Nazi American sites who want an America similar to Nazi Germany, but I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that some like that would really happen (apart from the Neo-Nazi's, of course). 

And Carpe Diem has more of a ring.
Name one country that America Invaded and Kept as its own for part of its empire????

and as I said America does not make Volkswagons.

Your so full of smartness the stupidity ooozes out of you.
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6581|USA

rh27 wrote:

IMHO, as far as America is concerned, they've already lost most of their freedoms. They don't need propaganda even, because currently it's only diverse people who are claiming this, and the more they claim that these freedoms are threatened, the less likely people are to believe it.
The fact that schoolchildren also have to learn a pledge of alleigance from an early age, seriously what is the point. When I first heard they did this, I thought it was a joke.
Finally, something I never understood, can someone explain how a 'true democracy' can exist based on a 2-party system? (Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how elections work in the USA)
there are more than two parties, and more than two parties run. its just the rest are very unpopular because of ideas many think are stupid.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6664

Major_Spittle wrote:

Name one country that America Invaded and Kept as its own for part of its empire????
Why?

Major_Spittle wrote:

and as I said America does not make Volkswagons.
It wasn't even relevant in the first place.  And even if it were, most of the other car factories have been moved to Mexico, why should Volkswagen be the only company who stay?

Major_Spittle wrote:

Your so full of smartness the stupidity ooozes out of you.
That's right.  By studying, reading, evaluating and thinking it is possible to fill yourself up with knowledge (or smartness as you call it) to the point where the stupidity oozes out of your pores and is washed away in the shower like normal perspiration.  Nice metaphor, and thanks for the compliment
herrr_smity
Member
+156|6638|space command ur anus
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6662|USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Doug Soderstrom
Common Dreams

http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm

wrote:


"In Hitler’s Germany there was a determined effort to brainwash the people so they might support Mein Fuhrer’s efforts to conquer the world. However, what if one were to suggest that much the same is occurring in the United States of America, that there has been a determined effort through the socializing influence of our schools, the government, the mass media, the churches we attend, even that of our own parents, to pressure us into believing (just as Hitler) that our country has received the blessing of God, and because of this, we therefore have not only the right, but more importantly, through the use of military weapons, a divine responsibility to see that the world acquiesces to our needs and expectations. Just as Hitler in the 1930’s prepared his countrymen to accept the authoritarian control of the Nazi government, much the same may well be occurring in the United States."
Does any of the research or observations noted and linked on the page above worry you?  Do you think that it's all nonsense, and that there have never been more freedoms than there are today?  Do you think the elections would be better if they were always rigged to give victory to the right, and anyone central or left wing is a traitor who wants to destroy your way of life? 

Or do you think that the danger is real, and that more and more freedoms are being compromised for the 'greater good', whilst propaganda proclaims the exact opposite?  Do you believe that fascism speading from within is a far greater threat to freedom than terrorist attacks? 

Discuss.
ya misspelled spreading

Last edited by lowing (2006-05-20 19:03:25)

skratch-x
Member
+25|6647|NY, USA

Ender2309 wrote:

rh27 wrote:

IMHO, as far as America is concerned, they've already lost most of their freedoms. They don't need propaganda even, because currently it's only diverse people who are claiming this, and the more they claim that these freedoms are threatened, the less likely people are to believe it.
The fact that schoolchildren also have to learn a pledge of alleigance from an early age, seriously what is the point. When I first heard they did this, I thought it was a joke.
Finally, something I never understood, can someone explain how a 'true democracy' can exist based on a 2-party system? (Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how elections work in the USA)
there are more than two parties, and more than two parties run. its just the rest are very unpopular because of ideas many think are stupid.
Wow...  Yes, third parties are unpopular because their ideas are stupid.  Are you fucking for real?
Lib-Sl@yer
Member
+32|6723|Wherever the F**k i feel like
Arite kiddies i think y'all need a definition of fascism. Fascism- a type of goverment where there are little to no civil or political freedoms, and the people onyl live for the state. Now in fascism there is a dictator. In america we vote. see the difference? In fascism you are not allowed to speak against your goverment, or its actions, and what do americans do? THEY PROTEST. In fascism people must do what their goverment says or be executed. In america we tell the goverment what to do.
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6581|England
no ya don't. Iraq, Vietnam?
Lib-Sl@yer
Member
+32|6723|Wherever the F**k i feel like

JohnnyBlanco wrote:

no ya don't. Iraq, Vietnam?
In the beginning people were for that. READ YOUR HISTORY! People were for vietnam to stop communism. they were for iraq to stop WMD's and the fascist regiem of saddam hussein. Now that we are bringing democracy to the middle east we are hopping for a domino effect to the rest of the countries. Also if you look at veitnam, only the hippes wanted out and "no war". They were too stoned to remember anything. As for iraq people still think we need to be at peace, all those teenage hippes are now adults, so they are trying to stop this just like they tried to stop vietnam. ITS THE SAME PEOPLE.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6703

rh27 wrote:

IMHO, as far as America is concerned, they've already lost most of their freedoms. They don't need propaganda even, because currently it's only diverse people who are claiming this, and the more they claim that these freedoms are threatened, the less likely people are to believe it.
The fact that schoolchildren also have to learn a pledge of alleigance from an early age, seriously what is the point. When I first heard they did this, I thought it was a joke.
Finally, something I never understood, can someone explain how a 'true democracy' can exist based on a 2-party system? (Not being sarcastic, I actually don't know how elections work in the USA)
We actualy have MANY politcial parties, but people only vote for democrats and republicans. Personaly I am very much considering moving to the nice and brisk Canada.
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6581|England
true but i'm sure a few people were againt both wars from the outset, so how many people need to speak up before the government takes note?. Oh and without meaning to be nasty america has not brought democracy to the middle east, i think they fucking hate you guys now.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6572

Lib-Sl@yer wrote:

Now in fascism there is a dictator. In america we vote. see the difference? In fascism you are not
allowed to speak against your goverment, or its actions, and what do americans do? THEY PROTEST. In fascism
people must do what their goverment says or be executed. In america we tell the goverment what to do.
And recent laws haven't brought you closer to this?  The title isn't "Fascism is now" but "The Future is Fascist".  You know, Germany was democratic.  Pre-Nazi party being voted in (actually, technically they were never voted in, but rather a loose coalition of which the Nazi party was a part, but hey, that's another story.

Lib-Sl@yer wrote:

Also if you look at veitnam, only the hippes wanted out and "no war". They were too stoned to remember anything. As for iraq people still think we need to be at peace, all those teenage hippes are now adults, so they are trying to stop this just like they tried to stop vietnam. ITS THE SAME PEOPLE.
There are so many things wrong with this statement I don't even know where to start.  Suffice it to say, maybe *you* should read your history books.

Lib-Sl@yer wrote:

Now that we are bringing democracy to the middle east we are hopping for a domino effect to the rest of the countries.
Ha! Hahahahahaha!  That's a good one.  Now tell me about how peaceful America is!  And try to keep a straight face!

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-05-20 21:17:06)

Lib-Sl@yer
Member
+32|6723|Wherever the F**k i feel like

Bubbalo wrote:

Lib-Sl@yer wrote:

Now that we are bringing democracy to the middle east we are hopping for a domino effect to the rest of the countries.
Ha! Hahahahahaha!  That's a good one.  Now tell me about how peaceful America is!  And try to keep a straight face!
Did i say anything about peace? i said democracy, as in voting, not as in peace. As for our hopes of a domino efeect i personally think that it is not gonna work. people are too stuborn to change.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6662|USA
....Bubbalo wrote...."Ha! Hahahahahaha!  That's a good one.  Now tell me about how peaceful America is!  And try to keep a straight face! :lol"


No America is so violent that people from all over the world are flocking to our country, legally and illegally, not for a better life, but so they can get in on the shooting. <painfully obvious sarcasm>

As much as you hate it, the USA is still the place to be. When you have to literally think about building walls to keep them all out of your country, come back and tell us how terrible we are. Until then, live with the fact that America provides the greatest opportunities for a peaceful, prosperous life in this world.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6683|Colorado
Q1. No
Q2. yes
Q3. Elections are already rigged.
Q4. No
Q5. fascism is dead, anyone claiming to be is a wannabe.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6654

Major_Spittle wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Obviously America does not Invade countries, kill off a portion of the population, declare that country as part of the American Empire, rule the country, or make Volkswagons.

These would be the big difference between a Fascist country and America.

As much as some retards with a doctorate in Europe would like to make you think that America is Evil and the same as Nazi Germany and the USSR; you have to be mindless and one demensional to not see the difference.


Now go out a sieze the day.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not, but in case you are:

Don't know if you've watched the news, but America does invade countries.

You are clearly referring to the holocaust when you say 'killing off a portion of the population,' but that was specific to the Nazi's, and not a requirement to qualify as fascist.

Neo-colonialism wouldn't involve declaring countries as part of an 'Empire', although the concept and outcomes are similar.

Staging coups to ensure a leadership who complies with your wishes saves the trouble of direct rule.

And finally Volkswagens were manufactured in Pennsylvania between 1978 and 1988,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_of_America

Can you post a link to these 'retards with a doctorate' who say that America is the same as the USSR or Nazi Germany?  I've seen alot of Neo-Nazi American sites who want an America similar to Nazi Germany, but I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that some like that would really happen (apart from the Neo-Nazi's, of course). 

And Carpe Diem has more of a ring.
Name one country that America Invaded and Kept as its own for part of its empire????

and as I said America does not make Volkswagons.

Your so full of smartness the stupidity ooozes out of you.
manifest destiny
Lib-Sl@yer
Member
+32|6723|Wherever the F**k i feel like
ah but for that manifest destiny comment to be true someone would have to have already have clamied that territory. Did the indians claim it? no, they shared their land with other indians, and moved were the animals moved. so basically they were nomads i.e. not settlining in one place. therefore having no claim to any land
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6654
ummmm....mexico, hello?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-05-20 22:15:59)

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