I think I need to sit down and do all the math involved... Cooling is a many headed dragon... In my early 20s myself and most of my friends built supercharged mustangs. Cooling was an issue for the longest time before we eventually got all the kinks figured out. Stock t-stats run somthing like 195* and we liked running cooler than that. Many of us dropped way down to 165* T-stats and I still think that was the root of most our problems. At 165* the stat was wide open after the car warmed up allowing water to flow 100%. It worked fine in the winter, but in summer months we had problems. I believe it ran the water through the radiator so fast that it was not properly cooled down. Many of us upgraded our water pumps, got bigger radiators, better fans etc... In the end the best solution was to go with a middle ground 180* tstat. It was still hot enough that it would close at least partially most of the time and allow the water in the radiator time to cool down. You want your water to flow, but faster is not always better, it can actually go too fast and not give the radiator enough time to do it's work. I want to tinker...MaddOps wrote:
Check it against a stock setup from a major manufacturer, for flow rates.slo5oh wrote:
Maddops,
Think the model 360 here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P … 004+113041 would make a good watercooling pump?
Then adjust for the volume of your heater core and your tank.
I don't see why it wouldn't. It'd just move your water faster.
Where does a guy find a good waterblock for under $50???MaddOps wrote:
Check it against a stock setup from a major manufacturer, for flow rates.
Then adjust for the volume of your heater core and your tank.
I don't see why it wouldn't. It'd just move your water faster.
Wow I really feel old. I remember the very first PC's in Tech school with just two 5.25 floppy drives. We started with a TI then moved on to PC. The instructor was the only one with a "Color" PC (It actually was named that) and a hard drive(10mb). He let me play on it a little. This was the very first IBM PC maintenance course at our school. Not a "Window" in site...lolslo5oh wrote:
mfmKaosdad008 wrote:
TURBO BUTTONS! I've forgotten all about those! And what kind of drives sdid we have before IDE? I've so forgotten the name.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Turbo buttons...so glad they've been replaced by slow-down software and, in general, rendered obsolete by better programming techniques. I've had more people walk up and demand why their computers didn't run like 500MHz's because they pressed turbo...
I still remember our HUGE (I think it was a 60mb?) mfm drive. It was too big for dos so it had to split into a 30mb C: and a 30mb D: drive.
I miss those days. They were alot simpler, and troubleshooting was alot more direct.Dubblel wrote:
Wow I really feel old. I remember the very first PC's in Tech school with just two 5.25 floppy drives. We started with a TI then moved on to PC. The instructor was the only one with a "Color" PC (It actually was named that) and a hard drive(10mb). He let me play on it a little. This was the very first IBM PC maintenance course at our school. Not a "Window" in site...lolslo5oh wrote:
mfmKaosdad008 wrote:
TURBO BUTTONS! I've forgotten all about those! And what kind of drives sdid we have before IDE? I've so forgotten the name.
I still remember our HUGE (I think it was a 60mb?) mfm drive. It was too big for dos so it had to split into a 30mb C: and a 30mb D: drive.
I do miss the days of dos 6.xx and windows 3.xx... talk about a fast reinstall??? I could HD to HD copy the OS and windows in a couple minutes.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I miss those days. They were alot simpler, and troubleshooting was alot more direct.Dubblel wrote:
Wow I really feel old. I remember the very first PC's in Tech school with just two 5.25 floppy drives. We started with a TI then moved on to PC. The instructor was the only one with a "Color" PC (It actually was named that) and a hard drive(10mb). He let me play on it a little. This was the very first IBM PC maintenance course at our school. Not a "Window" in site...lolslo5oh wrote:
mfm
I still remember our HUGE (I think it was a 60mb?) mfm drive. It was too big for dos so it had to split into a 30mb C: and a 30mb D: drive.
If the problem (whatever the problem was) still existed I could then swap out parts... sheesh... now that I think about it I DON'T miss the days of seperate IO boards, seperate sound cards, LP2 cards. I still crack up thinking about the poor kid who's mom brought in their "family" computer because it wasn't booting into windows and I discovered the son had been downloading naked pics to floppy disks... he didn't realize they were are also stored in the temp directory, and accidently filled up their entire hard drive. I wiped them off and let the son know he should clear out the temp dir every few weeks.
Heh, class.slo5oh wrote:
I do miss the days of dos 6.xx and windows 3.xx... talk about a fast reinstall??? I could HD to HD copy the OS and windows in a couple minutes.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I miss those days. They were alot simpler, and troubleshooting was alot more direct.Dubblel wrote:
Wow I really feel old. I remember the very first PC's in Tech school with just two 5.25 floppy drives. We started with a TI then moved on to PC. The instructor was the only one with a "Color" PC (It actually was named that) and a hard drive(10mb). He let me play on it a little. This was the very first IBM PC maintenance course at our school. Not a "Window" in site...lol
If the problem (whatever the problem was) still existed I could then swap out parts... sheesh... now that I think about it I DON'T miss the days of seperate IO boards, seperate sound cards, LP2 cards. I still crack up thinking about the poor kid who's mom brought in their "family" computer because it wasn't booting into windows and I discovered the son had been downloading naked pics to floppy disks... he didn't realize they were are also stored in the temp directory, and accidently filled up their entire hard drive. I wiped them off and let the son know he should clear out the temp dir every few weeks.
"System Building Basic Guide - Building From Scratch... Nostalgia Thread"
I remember thinking when I first got a 500MB hard disk (going from a 20 then 80 before) that i'll never use up all of that... then I look at my hard drives in my current machine...
C:\ Used 42.1GB
D:\ Used 88.5GB
E:\ Used 202GB
That much stuff would require more than a few 500MB hard disks...
Remember Cyrix processors?
Goddamn, hot running pos, unreliable as hell too. (and ran that hot)
Who remembers first running Doom in dos and playing it in the dark? Such a scary game back then.
And nowadays you don't so much play Doom (3) in the dark as you're in the light trying to see in the dark in Doom.
Yep!EvilMonkeySlayer wrote:
Heh, class.
"System Building Basic Guide - Building From Scratch... Nostalgia Thread"
I remember thinking when I first got a 500MB hard disk (going from a 20 then 80 before) that i'll never use up all of that... then I look at my hard drives in my current machine...
C:\ Used 42.1GB
D:\ Used 88.5GB
E:\ Used 202GB
That much stuff would require more than a few 500MB hard disks...
Remember Cyrix processors?
Goddamn, hot running pos, unreliable as hell too. (and ran that hot)
Who remembers first running Doom in dos and playing it in the dark? Such a scary game back then.
And nowadays you don't so much play Doom (3) in the dark as you're in the light trying to see in the dark in Doom.
I went from a 120mb (my first drive I bought myself) to a 400mb, to a 1.6gig to a (the middle gets fuzzy?!?) 13, to a 17, then on to a 40, 80, and I'm still using a 160 now.
I recall playing doom, doom2, warcraft, and quake networked, on the work computers, after closing, with the other guys, until the WEEE hours of the morning... It's bad when you're driving home sleepy and think you see one of those raspberry eyeball bad guys pop up in front of you!
never had a cyrix.
Really good and comprehensive guide....
One should heed the advice given there.... check out http://www.dau-alarm.de/gallery.html on visual examples of what happens, when you don't
One should heed the advice given there.... check out http://www.dau-alarm.de/gallery.html on visual examples of what happens, when you don't
lol doom that was fun...back in the old days.
though I really don't see the need for a build-your-own guide as refurbs and generic comps come cheaper by a few hundred and they run BF2 fairly decently.
The only reason to build a comp yourself is if you want a cool case, and good pieces of hardware instead of the crap they give you at Dell and actually building one yourself isn't exactly the hardest thing to do.
The most widely made mistake I suppose is not plugging power into the mboard/other components or not screwing in the support for the mobo and ending up frying the thing.
Probably the only guide that we need is an overclocking guide...
though I really don't see the need for a build-your-own guide as refurbs and generic comps come cheaper by a few hundred and they run BF2 fairly decently.
The only reason to build a comp yourself is if you want a cool case, and good pieces of hardware instead of the crap they give you at Dell and actually building one yourself isn't exactly the hardest thing to do.
The most widely made mistake I suppose is not plugging power into the mboard/other components or not screwing in the support for the mobo and ending up frying the thing.
Probably the only guide that we need is an overclocking guide...
guide to overclocking your AMD based system. SUPER SHORTENED!T0tal-Annihilation wrote:
Probably the only guide that we need is an overclocking guide...
#1 install a program to monitor your CPU temps. (I use speedfan)
#2 reboot and enter your bios
#3 bios settings:
a) lower your system shut down temp to the LOWEST your bios supports (60*c usually)
b) lower your HTT multiplier to 3x,
c) lower your ram speed to 166 (or 180 if you have it)
d) raise you FSB or CPU speed from 200 to 210.
If your system boots: restart, enter bios raise FSB by another 5mhz. Keep repeating until your system will not boot then lower it back down to the last working number. Be warned. You may have to do a hard reset of your bios (jumper on the board) and reset everything so pay attention to where you're at.
Once you find the last good OC before your system will not boot, install prime95 and torture test for HOURS AND HOURS. WATCH YOUR TEMPS!!! If it fails you need to either lower it further or add voltage to the CPU. If it works and your temps are still low, add voltage then start raising your speed again.
IF YOU HIT 250MHZ you may need to slow the ram down further. If you get to 250 I recommend you go to a good OC website. There's plenty to choose from. I like extremeoverclocking.com, but there are better.
Never let your FSB x HTT x 2 excede your boards HTT capability. 939 boards go to 2000, and 754 chips go to 1600. If you do let this number go too far over the cap you will start to corrupt data on your hard drive. So if you're running 250 (fsb) x 4 (htt) x 2 = 2000, but 250 x 5 x 2 = 2500. That's almost instant data corruption. It's more complex with the 754 boards since your cap is at 1600, there are lots of guys that have OCed so far they can not push their HTT beyond 2x.
how's that for a start? Did I forget anything?...
lol you forgot a few things...
1) a link for Prime95: http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103
2) If you have an Asus board you can use the BIOS to up your speed w/ tweaking your FSB or HTT. (other boards may have similar utilities)
3) Get a utility like Everest (They closed down already...maybe I should up the .exe) to check your system stats etc. and benchmark.
4) How about writing down BIOS/CMOS config settings and backing up data before trying? (or put all the crap on a external HD)
5) Look up what kind of CPU you have and whether you can change FSB cuz some AMD chips don't let you do that (FSB capped).
6) Don't forgot RAM and graphics overclocking xP
Good for a start....
Sorry guys, but, I can't help right now cuz I'm using my P-II 333 (running directx 6.0 I think) so I can't really take screenshots of crap or anything.
pretty much, all you need to do is go to an overclocking site and follow its instructions.
1) a link for Prime95: http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103
2) If you have an Asus board you can use the BIOS to up your speed w/ tweaking your FSB or HTT. (other boards may have similar utilities)
3) Get a utility like Everest (They closed down already...maybe I should up the .exe) to check your system stats etc. and benchmark.
4) How about writing down BIOS/CMOS config settings and backing up data before trying? (or put all the crap on a external HD)
5) Look up what kind of CPU you have and whether you can change FSB cuz some AMD chips don't let you do that (FSB capped).
6) Don't forgot RAM and graphics overclocking xP
Good for a start....
Sorry guys, but, I can't help right now cuz I'm using my P-II 333 (running directx 6.0 I think) so I can't really take screenshots of crap or anything.
pretty much, all you need to do is go to an overclocking site and follow its instructions.
Last edited by T0tal-Annihilation (2006-05-31 12:41:21)
I have an A-Bit motherboard (I forget the exact model - it's over in the "post your rig" thread). It comes with a utility that allows over clocking of the CPU & memory from the desktop.
It's odd in that BF2 overclocked will crash the program, but not the whole system.
It's odd in that BF2 overclocked will crash the program, but not the whole system.
well, overclocking affects system stability...
and we all know how strong and durable BF2 is and how careful EA and DICE are.
Just be happy that the bloatware we call Windows doesn't crash/patch like BF2 does.
and we all know how strong and durable BF2 is and how careful EA and DICE are.
Just be happy that the bloatware we call Windows doesn't crash/patch like BF2 does.
Like I said, it was super shortened.T0tal-Annihilation wrote:
5) Look up what kind of CPU you have and whether you can change FSB cuz some AMD chips don't let you do that (FSB capped).
pretty much, all you need to do is go to an overclocking site and follow its instructions.
I don't believe there is a current AMD chip with a FSB cap. They are all capped on the multiplier, but some motherboards allow you to slow down the multiplier in order to raise your FSB.
Yea... I meant to say capped multiplier xP
I'm not criticizing you or anything, you just asked whether you missed anything or not ^^
I'm not criticizing you or anything, you just asked whether you missed anything or not ^^
I wasn't getting defensive... or not trying to anyhow.T0tal-Annihilation wrote:
Yea... I meant to say capped multiplier xP
I'm not criticizing you or anything, you just asked whether you missed anything or not ^^
Here's a parts list for a roughly $1200 computer that will smoke most $3000 computers:
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wis … er=3443584
Some parts you won't want to buy at newegg (like the cpu) since there are much better places to get them (monarchcomputer). I like newegg and they've treated me good, but you should price shop for everything and always check for great deals after mail in rebates (MIRs). Just stay away from tigerdirect, too many people have been hosed by their MIR deals.
As an example I'm running almost this exact computer right now and currently I'm running the HTT (or FSB) at 310Mhz giving me 2.79Ghz at stock voltage. My little $250 CPU is running = with a $1400 FX-62 minus the new am2 advantage with ddr2 ram.
Note: Sometimes the processor requires A LITTLE tap to go in. Tap like ashing a cigarette, not like starting a nail in a wall, or thumping a ripe mellon, or slapping that Thai She-Male on the ass.
Push the memory in firmly until it clicks into place. Do not "Juggernaut Crush" or "HULK SMASH" things into place. Firm but gentle.
haha gotta love this guide..
although whats all that about not plugging in the reset leads and HDD light leads etc before intial boot? i always plug em all in
otherwise nice guide
Push the memory in firmly until it clicks into place. Do not "Juggernaut Crush" or "HULK SMASH" things into place. Firm but gentle.
haha gotta love this guide..
although whats all that about not plugging in the reset leads and HDD light leads etc before intial boot? i always plug em all in
otherwise nice guide
The bit about not plugging in all the leads is for two reasons.
1. (From Actual Experience) Sometimes one of the leads may cause the board not to boot. So I just use power until I know it's all working fine. Then HDD, Power, etc. I save reset for last because it's not critical and the reset switch caused me not to boot on a few boards.
2. If you have to pull the board for any reason or flip leads it's easier to add one by one than unplug and flip all of em at the same time. Plus it's less to unplug.
But that's just me. Your individual mileage may vary.
1. (From Actual Experience) Sometimes one of the leads may cause the board not to boot. So I just use power until I know it's all working fine. Then HDD, Power, etc. I save reset for last because it's not critical and the reset switch caused me not to boot on a few boards.
2. If you have to pull the board for any reason or flip leads it's easier to add one by one than unplug and flip all of em at the same time. Plus it's less to unplug.
But that's just me. Your individual mileage may vary.
Im new to rig making and i found some tips in there extremely helpful. +1 to you from me!
Shit i think thats whats wrong wid my pc cos it does exactly what you say, so do i have to disconnect everything then reseat the HSF?MaddOps wrote:
Sometimes you won't know if you got the whole heatsink/fan thing right until you fire up the server. If you got it wrong the machine will run for a while, then crap out/reboot. The reboot cycle will be shorter each time as the CPU retains more & more heat. Unfortunatly, the only fix is to dis-asseble the lot & reseat the heat sink. Please do NOT try and re-seat the heatsink whilst the mobo is in the case - you'll crack the mobo.
Okay worries over it was the HSF after all only took me 30 mins to work out
I just went through a rounf of upgrading my PC and bulding my girl's PC. I have some suggestions for DIY folks:
1) Case parts - get them all from the same vendor. By case parts I mean the case, power supply, fans and lighting. I used all Ultra parts and the things went together SO smoothly.
2) Buy as much as you can afford. Take a serious look at your budget and but the biggest/best/most awsome stuff you can. You're broke now but won't have to go through this again for three years!
3) Convert to RAID. Drives are getting cheaper and new mobos all have SATA RAID. Don't build the RAID in BIOS!!!!!!! All RAID mobos come with utility disks which allow you to build the system on a single disk, then convert to RAID 0 or 1.
4) Don't be afraid to reload. You;ve loaded the OS and apps and it just doesn;t feel right? Reload - you deserve perfection.
5) Take Your Time Set aside a whole three day weekend (call in sick on Monday) and do it right.
Best of luck on your upgrades!
1) Case parts - get them all from the same vendor. By case parts I mean the case, power supply, fans and lighting. I used all Ultra parts and the things went together SO smoothly.
2) Buy as much as you can afford. Take a serious look at your budget and but the biggest/best/most awsome stuff you can. You're broke now but won't have to go through this again for three years!
3) Convert to RAID. Drives are getting cheaper and new mobos all have SATA RAID. Don't build the RAID in BIOS!!!!!!! All RAID mobos come with utility disks which allow you to build the system on a single disk, then convert to RAID 0 or 1.
4) Don't be afraid to reload. You;ve loaded the OS and apps and it just doesn;t feel right? Reload - you deserve perfection.
5) Take Your Time Set aside a whole three day weekend (call in sick on Monday) and do it right.
Best of luck on your upgrades!
wow MaddOps! nice guide i didn't know you are so knowledgeable! See ya around.
Anyone use a Bittorent?... http://www.mininova.org/tor/394979