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Topic closed

2006-05-03 20:55:47
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|6967|Planet Seibertron ;)

_j5689_ wrote:

Nvidias are a bit pricy for a 14-year old and I have better experience with ATi so i'd recommend that to him.
My chosen brands for computer parts are Intel for processors, and ATi for Graphics cards.  I don't buy AMDs because they're unclear about their processor speed.
In the pricing arena, neither is better than the other for video cards.  Finding a card that performs well as well as being low-cost will depend on how well you can hunt down a good deal.

I'll nitpick and retort on the AMD bit.  Correct me if I am wrong on this but virtually all of the respectable online retailers have details that usually indicate the processor's clock speed.  Newegg displays them.  ZipZoomFly does too.  Many stores will indicate what the processor's clock speed is.  If, however, you are unsure about the processor's speed, there's always looking the info up on the company's website, as seen by this site/page here.  It'll help you not only see what model varieties they have but also help you discern the difference between two processor of the same speed grade.

On the other hand, Intel is no better, having followed AMD's path in transitioning to a model number based system.  Neither companies are better off in making their processors clear as to how fast they run in terms of clock speed.  The clock speed war in the days of AthlonXP and Pentium4 is long over and both companies have since then moved past that.

If price is of a major concern, there's little a teenager can do to better the computer, other than saving up some major cash and plan out an upgrade.  If there are no available slots that can accept a video card (PCI Express or AGP), then the system is very ill-equipped to further enhance the gaming experience with today's 3D engines.  As others have suggested, it's time for a new motherboard in order to install a new video card.  However, I foresee a minor problem given the scenerio and what is known right now...

Depending on one's eagerness to learn the technical aspects of the computer, it's a good idea to start learning the basics of the computer... know what basic components are required for the computer to start up and keep note of the dangers of tinkering with electrical and electronic parts.  While I wish there is something that can help you and/or your friend get started in learning, there are many ways to start and trying to compose up a learner's guide is going to be extremely lengthy (think several pages long).  If one cannot be bothered to know everything there is to know, or even the basics, then there is little that any of us can do to help.  Other than getting a brand new system, there's little one can do to actually improve performance that benefits BF2.
2006-05-03 21:02:19
Viper007Bond
Moderator Emeritus
+236|7097|Portland, OR, USA

PCI < a rock < AGP < PCI-E

I take it he has onboard video and wants to upgrade to a video card? Well, he's outta luck. He's gonna need a whole new PC (since he has onboard video, I'll assume he has a pre-built PC from Dell or something and you can't change out the motherboard on those).

Last edited by Viper007Bond (2006-05-03 21:05:13)

https://bf3s.com/sigs/044900892044e7fc95e599e832a086ae9bcd7efb.png
2006-05-03 21:03:55
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7043|good old CA

_j5689_ wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

dude thats gonna get you some -'s there, anyways tell your friend to at least try to geta  agp MB.


edit:also if he does get a agp mb, dont get the agp ati cards, there old tech compared to nvidia (not biased, you know hdr runs better with sm3
Nvidias are a bit pricy for a 14-year old and I have better experience with ATi so i'd recommend that to him.
My chosen brands for computer parts are Intel for processors, and ATi for Graphics cards.  I don't buy AMDs because they're unclear about their processor speed.
ati= old tech!! oh well still good though
2006-05-03 21:10:08
Viper007Bond
Moderator Emeritus
+236|7097|Portland, OR, USA

_j5689_ wrote:

I don't buy AMDs because they're unclear about their processor speed.
Okay, wow, funniest thing I've read all night.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/044900892044e7fc95e599e832a086ae9bcd7efb.png
2006-05-03 21:10:24
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7043|good old CA
qft +1 for you
2006-05-03 23:04:51
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7063|PNW

If somebody is clueless about computers and is unwilling to learn, I'd have to recommend buying a pre-built.

Otherwise, based on newegg.com pricing, for a basic BF2 machine:

CPU - AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 2000MHz HT Socket 939 1MB L2 - $235 (newegg calls it 2GHz, but it is really 2.2GHz)

Mainboard - ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - $105

Memory - OCZ 2GB (2x1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Platinum System Memory Model; 2-3-2-5 2.8V (OCZ4002048ELDCPE-K) - $150 (after $40 rebate)

Video - BFG Tech GeForce 7900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card (BFGR79256GTOCE) - Retail - $330

Sound - onboard - $0

Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (or the WD Caviar SE16) - $95

DVD's - 2x LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/ 5X DVD-RAM Write Black ATAPI/E-IDE (Model SHM-165P6S RTL) - Retail - $80 (2x $40)

Chassis + PSU - UST PC JPC787-BLACK Black Computer Case - Retail (includes 550W PSU) - $60

Uninterruptable Power Supply - OPTI-UPS GS1100B 1100VA 550W 6 Outlets UPS - Retail - $90 (investment protection)

Total: $1145
Get a 6800GT instead to cut $240 (if you opt for the refurbished ASUS; non-refurbished would only save about $190) off the total price, slice one DVD burner to save an additional $40, gamble and take a risk on faulty wall power killing off your PSU to save an additional $90, which would bring the total price to $775. If you don't have anyone to build it for you or are afraid to touch it, you can take it to a PC shop. Or, as mentioned before, you could get pre-built...

Also, as mentioned before, it is not worth upgrading a PCI-based motherboard for a gaming rig.

Viper007Bond wrote:

PCI < a rock < AGP < PCI-E
You forgot VLB and ISA...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/Vlb.jpg
Oh, the horror.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-03 23:52:22)

2006-05-03 23:10:49
Shadow893
lel
+75|6984|England
No way
2006-05-03 23:42:37
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7043|good old CA
uhh no way what ?
2006-05-04 03:43:54
psychotoxic187
Member
+11|7001

Maj.Do wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

dude thats gonna get you some -'s there, anyways tell your friend to at least try to geta  agp MB.


edit:also if he does get a agp mb, dont get the agp ati cards, there old tech compared to nvidia (not biased, you know hdr runs better with sm3
Nvidias are a bit pricy for a 14-year old and I have better experience with ATi so i'd recommend that to him.
My chosen brands for computer parts are Intel for processors, and ATi for Graphics cards.  I don't buy AMDs because they're unclear about their processor speed.
ati= old tech!! oh well still good though
That's funny, because last time I looked ATI was using 3 shader processors per pipeline, and with unified shader pipelines coming next-gen, that's hardly "old tech."
2006-05-04 04:15:22
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6923|Finland

_j5689_ wrote:

Just wondering because I want to help my friend play this game but there is no AGP slot on his mobo so I want to see if this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 814129043R can work in one of his PCI slots.
If your friend would want to gradually upgrade in order to play BF2, he should go buy an AsRock Dual SATA s939 MB and a decent AMD 64 to go with that. Since it has both AGP and PCI-E slots + dual channel RAM support, he'd be fine. He shouldn't however throw away his 486 SX2 w. 66Mhz "turbo-clock", since nostalgia is the "in"-word!
I need around tree fiddy.
2006-05-04 04:17:59
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|7008|Riva, MD
So, why in the holy fuck did everybody just -1 karma me? I now have -10 karma.
2006-05-04 04:31:03
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|7008|Riva, MD
Thank you whoever you are for the positive Karma.  I needed that after waking up and finding that much -karma.
2006-05-04 04:32:20
AT3am_Murd0ch
Member
+15|6872

DonFck wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Just wondering because I want to help my friend play this game but there is no AGP slot on his mobo so I want to see if this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 814129043R can work in one of his PCI slots.
If your friend would want to gradually upgrade in order to play BF2, he should go buy an AsRock Dual SATA s939 MB and a decent AMD 64 to go with that. Since it has both AGP and PCI-E slots + dual channel RAM support, he'd be fine. He shouldn't however throw away his 486 SX2 w. 66Mhz "turbo-clock", since nostalgia is the "in"-word!
This is the man to listen to - Grab a Motherboard with an AGP slot as well as a PCI-E, that way you can buy some of the cheaper graphics cards now, and upgrade in the future. My mobo has an AGP as well as PCI, and a future CPU slot just incase. Also, go for the socket 939 mobo with an AMD 64 3000+ or upwards. The trick is to buy mid-range components, since they are cheap but still relatively high performance. The AMD 64s will be the best option as well, since they beat Intel to the 64-bit thing - and theyll run 32-bit as well as 64-bit software, which will allow you to upgrade when software finally catches up!

Edit: Is nobody allowed to ask a question like this guy without getting flamed?! Seems unfair to me!

Last edited by AT3am_Murd0ch (2006-05-04 04:33:24)

2006-05-04 04:37:03
=TH=[Eleanor]-NL-
The Karma Collector!
+233|6982|The Netherlands
Videocarts are either AGP or PCI-E these days. Depends on the mother board which card you can and can't use. PCI-E is rather new while AGP has been with us for a while now. If you are planning on buying a new videocart, watch out what you buy, as you can't put a PCI-E card in an AGP slot, nor can you put a AGP card in a PCI-E slot. Oh, and PCI is old, not for using videocarts in, possibly sound cards and who knows what more, definatelly no videocarts!

Last edited by =TH=[Eleanor]-NL- (2006-05-04 04:42:46)

2006-05-04 05:49:02
AT3am_Murd0ch
Member
+15|6872

=TH=[Eleanor]-NL- wrote:

Oh, and PCI is old, not for using videocarts in, possibly sound cards and who knows what more, definatelly no videocarts!
It can be used for video cards - I have a PCI Video Card right here on my desk - but they're useless as far as BF2 is concerned...
2006-05-04 05:49:17
Janus67
Tech God
+86|6886|Ohio, USA

_j5689_ wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

dude thats gonna get you some -'s there, anyways tell your friend to at least try to geta  agp MB.


edit:also if he does get a agp mb, dont get the agp ati cards, there old tech compared to nvidia (not biased, you know hdr runs better with sm3
Nvidias are a bit pricy for a 14-year old and I have better experience with ATi so i'd recommend that to him.
My chosen brands for computer parts are Intel for processors, and ATi for Graphics cards.  I don't buy AMDs because they're unclear about their processor speed.
how are they unclear of their processor speed?  on newegg or whatever it says the exact ghz that it runs at, and a rating for if it were the old t-bird core (which ran directly at xghz/mhz) as to what speed it would be running at.  The important thing to know is that AMD has had better architecture in their processors that Intel, especially in the waves of gaming over the past couple years.  Although later this year we may see Intel take that back with the Conroe chip, but that isn't for certain yet.

And you honestly asked what the best PCI cards were, so we told you.  I personally would go with nVidia because I have owned both, and it just seems to hold up better, even in the PCI market - however well that is.  That and the drivers seem to be a bit better.

Also, I vote with the other people here, save up and get a new motherboard so that the other parts could at least be parted over into it.  The new motherboard should have AGP at the least and preferably PCI-E for future expansion, although you would have to know what socket, etc that your friend is running on.
2006-05-04 06:58:20
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7027|Salt Lake City

Your friend should be able to pick up a motherboard with a PCI-e slot that can fit right into the rig he has now, and be able to swap everything else over.  I wouldn't recommend buying a board with AGP, because quite honestly you can get more bang for the buck in PCI-e cards than AGP.

However, if his CPU is S478, he may not be able to find a PCI-e board for that.  If it's LGA 775, he's good to go with a wide selection of boards, even in mATX form factor; I'm guessing his board is mATX because he has integrated video and no PCI-e/AGP slot.
2006-05-04 14:40:17
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7063|PNW

Yes, AGP is still around, but it's safe to say that PCI-e has firmly established itself as a much more viable (and stable, since its early incarnations) replacement.

Dung nailed it. An AGP+PCI-e might have been a good choice in early 2005, but the price/performance/availability of AGP for gamers has aged beyond its usefulness. Unless you have a decent AGP card all ready for use, like a 6800 Ultra, I would definately avoid the AGP+PCI-e mainboard approach.

That being said, I still keep old computers around so that I may play Doom without Windows XP's interference.

=TH=[Eleanor]-NL- wrote:

Videocarts are either AGP or PCI-E these days. Depends on the mother board which card you can and can't use. PCI-E is rather new while AGP has been with us for a while now. If you are planning on buying a new videocart, watch out what you buy, as you can't put a PCI-E card in an AGP slot, nor can you put a AGP card in a PCI-E slot. Oh, and PCI is old, not for using videocarts in, possibly sound cards and who knows what more, definatelly no videocarts!
PCI's still useful for sound cards, and will be (is, now that the new Ghost Recon's being tinkered with) for physics cards. However, if somebody's going to be using two fatboy 7800 GTX cards, they'll probably only have room for one of those option.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-04 14:51:52)

2006-05-04 14:43:07
beerface702
Member
+65|6984|las vegas
it wont even go in the slot easily. you would have to tap it in with a mallet. or something

so no

and even if u did , spark, fry, bzzat..

Last edited by beerface702 (2006-05-04 14:43:38)

2006-05-04 14:45:31
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6958

_j5689_ wrote:

Are there any good PCI cards then?
For modern FPS gaming, no....
2006-05-04 14:49:40
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7063|PNW

Ilocano wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Are there any good PCI cards then?
For modern FPS gaming, no....
If somebody is strapped enough for cash,

BFG GeForce FX5500 256MB PCI - $90

The 5200's are a bit cheaper, but have their issues. Don't expect too much of a performance boost out of a PCI card upgrade, unless what you have is truly slower, like a Voodoo, CL 3D Annihilator, or an S3 VIRGE. They would be far better off saving for a system like the one I previously described.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-04 14:50:19)

2006-05-04 15:02:16
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6958

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Are there any good PCI cards then?
For modern FPS gaming, no....
If somebody is strapped enough for cash,

BFG GeForce FX5500 256MB PCI - $90

The 5200's are a bit cheaper, but have their issues. Don't expect too much of a performance boost out of a PCI card upgrade, unless what you have is truly slower, like a Voodoo, CL 3D Annihilator, or an S3 VIRGE. They would be far better off saving for a system like the one I previously described.
But however low he sets his BF2 settings, there is still the PCI bottleneck.  The only saving grace from his onboard video is probably that 256MB on the FX5500.  But overall, I don't think he will get much performance gain.

Considering he has a 2.9Ghz Processor (Celeron), I'm guessing most of his components aren't too old.  If his friend is willing to spend $200 on a graphics card, spending another $50 on a reasonable compatible motherboard would be the best option.  Just find a motherboard that supports PCI-e, works with his current RAM and processor, and fits in his case.

Tech geek here.  I've built my last 5 gaming rigs.
2006-05-04 15:05:02
dannydee223
Banned
+7|6863
there IS a reason WHY you get pci and pci-e slots you know!

i wouldt reccomend it,unless your into the smell of burnt graphics card
2006-05-04 15:52:24
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7063|PNW

Ilocano wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Ilocano wrote:


For modern FPS gaming, no....
If somebody is strapped enough for cash,

BFG GeForce FX5500 256MB PCI - $90

The 5200's are a bit cheaper, but have their issues. Don't expect too much of a performance boost out of a PCI card upgrade, unless what you have is truly slower, like a Voodoo, CL 3D Annihilator, or an S3 VIRGE. They would be far better off saving for a system like the one I previously described.
But however low he sets his BF2 settings, there is still the PCI bottleneck.
Exactly why I recommended a newer system instead.
2006-05-04 17:28:56
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|7008|Riva, MD
For all of you nice decent people who helped and gave me +1, thank you so much.  For all the assholes that made me -20, FUCK YOU ALL.  I don't even give a fuck about karma anymore, the whole thing is absolutely pointless.  If you don't like my cussing, TOO FUCKING BAD FOR YOU!!!!!!

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