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kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX
Link to News Article Here

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I just read this article and though I'm not sure if everything is factual I'm pretty worried about the possibility of this if they follow through with it. Not only am I worried that even more people are going to get killed but also that the US will solidify itself in the world's eye as a huge war monger of a country (having been the only country to use nuclear weapons on a foe) and the US will not only lose many of it's allies but also the economy will official tank to a new low.

This makes me very worried and makes me wish they would hurry up and impeach Bush quickly.

BTW about 50% of the Iranians are either against the Iranian nuclear program or feel no ill feelings towards the US. All you hear in the news is the bad parts and never the good parts.

This thread is slightly related to this thread here:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=19877

Let me add that if another war is started then there is no doubt that the draft will be reinstated. Frankly we just don't have the man power to not only take care of Iraq but also Iran. Esspecially since our Reserve troops are already stretched to their limits. According to this article they are also trained poorly.

LA Times Article

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2006-04-09 05:22:08)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX
And this is an very interesting site that actually earned it's very own followup.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/

Another log on the fire?

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2006-04-09 05:17:53)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
herrr_smity
Member
+156|5346|space command ur anus
all hail the nuclear holocaust
[anti]NorthBear
Member
+0|5381|Malmoe, Sweden

herrr_smity wrote:

all hail the nuclear holocaust
LOL, I thought this was debate and serious talk
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5434

[anti]NorthBear wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

all hail the nuclear holocaust
LOL, I thought this was debate and serious talk
it is.

I doubt US will use a nuke... But airstrikes in the nuclear facilities would be a good option...
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
[anti]NorthBear
Member
+0|5381|Malmoe, Sweden

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

[anti]NorthBear wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

all hail the nuclear holocaust
LOL, I thought this was debate and serious talk
it is.

I doubt US will use a nuke... But airstrikes in the nuclear facilities would be a good option...
Then US will have a brand new Iraq on their hands...
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|5496
I think the US will just bomb the sites with stealth bombers then tell them if you wanna send terrorists to america we can destroy your economy too.
SMSgtDoc
Member
+0|5377

kilroy0097 wrote:

This makes me very worried and makes me wish they would hurry up and impeach Bush quickly.
LOL, WTF are they going to impeach him on??  And that doesn't mean he wouldn't stay in office.  Have some facts please before saying this stuff.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|5372
Don't develop nukes or we will nuke you.  Now how would America feel if someone turned round to them and said that?
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|5362

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Don't develop nukes or we will nuke you.  Now how would America feel if someone turned round to them and said that?
wed fuck their world up because we could thats what.  Irans day is coming soon.  I dont really tend to believe that %50 of Iranians have no ill will to the united states.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|5398

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

[anti]NorthBear wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

all hail the nuclear holocaust
LOL, I thought this was debate and serious talk
it is.

I doubt US will use a nuke... But airstrikes in the nuclear facilities would be a good option...
In the article it says that conventional weapons probably won't be effective enough to reach the underground bunkers . That's why they are going for the nuclear option . Funny how this atricle came out a few days after the " secret meeting " and the bunker buster test in the Utah desert . Looks like it wasn't giving us desired results thus we have no other option but using nukes .
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|5372

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Don't develop nukes or we will nuke you.  Now how would America feel if someone turned round to them and said that?
wed fuck their world up because we could thats what.  Irans day is coming soon.  I dont really tend to believe that %50 of Iranians have no ill will to the united states.
Every Iranian/Persian I have met (and the figure is high double or maybe even triple digit) is a hell of alot nicer than you, geez.
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|5388|Stalking Chuck Norris
How is our economy at a new low? I really don't care what some Iranian thinks about me. The general disposition of their govenment is hostile towards me and my government. They are also known to sponser terrorists, which also goes against me favoring them to have a nuke. The russians could be trusted with one, they can't.


As for the reserves, this wouldn't be a land war.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,822|5490|USA

Nukes have always been a possibility in our war policy, in the eventuality that US find its forces too far stretched to retain modest control over a critical region.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX

SMSgtDoc wrote:

kilroy0097 wrote:

This makes me very worried and makes me wish they would hurry up and impeach Bush quickly.
LOL, WTF are they going to impeach him on??  And that doesn't mean he wouldn't stay in office.  Have some facts please before saying this stuff.
Breaching the Constitutional rights of thousands of Americans all under the imposed label of Terrorist suspect. That alone is grounds of impeachment. The countless other screwups of the White House from errors in the Iraq war to poor performance of Homeland Security to party links to gross campaign fund violations and the Dubei ports scandal. The list just goes on and on. Not hard to figure out which party you are blindly following.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX

Flavius Aetius wrote:

How is our economy at a new low?
I don't even know where to start on pointing out where you are wrong.

Economy: Increase in jobs does not equal a good economy. Have you looked at the Deficit recently? It's over 8 Trillion Dollars. 8 TRILLION DOLLARS.  (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)  And how exactly do you propose we are going to pay this back? We are on the brink of a financial crisis if not already there. Major world powers are trading in their US Dollar reserves for Precious Metal reserves. The price of Gold and other metals has increased close to 200% since Bush came to office. If you want to have a savings anytime in the future I would suggest investing in gold just a little.

I really don't care what some Iranian thinks about me. The general disposition of their govenment is hostile towards me and my government. They are also known to sponser terrorists, which also goes against me favoring them to have a nuke. The russians could be trusted with one, they can't.
Your thoughts on the Iranians shows just how absolutely suckered into mainstream propaganda you are. You keep on watching your local news oh and Fox News since that's about all you are capable of understanding from a statement like you have shown.

As for the reserves, this wouldn't be a land war.
WARNING! Danger! You have reached Jessica Simpson level of intelligence with this statement. Your Brain functions are about to reach only vital organ operation. Warning!

I suppose you also think that the Chicken of the Sea is a bird. Welcome to the real real world and stop sniffing glue.

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2006-04-09 12:54:38)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
SMSgtDoc
Member
+0|5377

kilroy0097 wrote:

SMSgtDoc wrote:

kilroy0097 wrote:

This makes me very worried and makes me wish they would hurry up and impeach Bush quickly.
LOL, WTF are they going to impeach him on??  And that doesn't mean he wouldn't stay in office.  Have some facts please before saying this stuff.
Breaching the Constitutional rights of thousands of Americans all under the imposed label of Terrorist suspect. That alone is grounds of impeachment. The countless other screwups of the White House from errors in the Iraq war to poor performance of Homeland Security to party links to gross campaign fund violations and the Dubei ports scandal. The list just goes on and on. Not hard to figure out which party you are blindly following.
Well actually I don't follow any particular party, I use my brain and vote for officials that match my same opinions.  I'm actually quite pissed off at the current administration since they want to increase medical fees for retired military personnel.  For us enlisted guys they want to increase it from $460/year to over $900/year and add 10% a year after that.  It is even higher for retired officers.

But I do want to thank you for filing me away in a box somewhere based on my comments.  I really appreciate that, and don't worry, I will go on blindly fighting for your freedom and if necessary I will die to ensure that you have the right to stereotype me. 

That being said, please give me one specific example of an american citizen that has had their constitutional rights violated, please do it if you can.  If a president making mistakes was a crime, every former president would be serving time, they are human beings, not GOD, they make mistakes. 

It is nice to hear that there is noone in the Democratic party that has done any campaign fund violations, I was totally unaware of that.  But thanks for setting me straight.

Oh and by the way, you get impeached for breaking the law, not making bad decisions....but thanks for taking the time to answer...noob

Last edited by SMSgtDoc (2006-04-09 14:10:11)

Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|5388|Stalking Chuck Norris

kilroy0097 wrote:

Flavius Aetius wrote:

How is our economy at a new low?
I don't even know where to start on pointing out where you are wrong.

Economy: Increase in jobs does not equal a good economy. Have you looked at the Deficit recently? It's over 8 Trillion Dollars. 8 TRILLION DOLLARS.  (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)  And how exactly do you propose we are going to pay this back? We are on the brink of a financial crisis if not already there. Major world powers are trading in their US Dollar reserves for Precious Metal reserves. The price of Gold and other metals has increased close to 200% since Bush came to office. If you want to have a savings anytime in the future I would suggest investing in gold just a little.

I really don't care what some Iranian thinks about me. The general disposition of their govenment is hostile towards me and my government. They are also known to sponser terrorists, which also goes against me favoring them to have a nuke. The russians could be trusted with one, they can't.
Your thoughts on the Iranians shows just how absolutely suckered into mainstream propaganda you are. You keep on watching your local news oh and Fox News since that's about all you are capable of understanding from a statement like you have shown.

As for the reserves, this wouldn't be a land war.
WARNING! Danger! You have reached Jessica Simpson level of intelligence with this statement. Your Brain functions are about to reach only vital organ operation. Warning!




I suppose you also think that the Chicken of the Sea is a bird. Welcome to the real real world and stop sniffing glue.
I am in the reserves. I don't know what you're watching, but the economy is on the rebound.  My thoughts are the thoughts of all of those who care about the security of their country dearly.


How much do you personally know about military doctrine? Why would we need land forces in Iran? It's not a changing of the government, or a hunt for anything else. It would just be a simple 'lets blast the hell out of the facilities'mission. I do know what tuna is. Do you want to put forth a productive argument? You have a lack of experience in military matters as stands now with what you have put forward.



And with the dollar... its still the most widely accepted form of currency anywhere

Last edited by Flavius Aetius (2006-04-09 18:52:42)

kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX
To both SMSgtDoc and Flavius Aetius.

Now why couldn't you have both answered as intelligently the first time around as you did the second time around? Why did I have to resort to pissing you off before a thought out rebuttle and answer could be produced?

Now that I know I'm actually debating here with both of you I'll stop with the inflamtory comments on my part and I'll do something unprecedented on these forums, I'll appologize to both of you for my crude and hasty remarks.

SMSgtDoc wrote:

Well actually I don't follow any particular party, I use my brain and vote for officials that match my same opinions.  I'm actually quite pissed off at the current administration since they want to increase medical fees for retired military personnel.  For us enlisted guys they want to increase it from $460/year to over $900/year and add 10% a year after that.  It is even higher for retired officers.

But I do want to thank you for filing me away in a box somewhere based on my comments.  I really appreciate that, and don't worry, I will go on blindly fighting for your freedom and if necessary I will die to ensure that you have the right to stereotype me.

That being said, please give me one specific example of an american citizen that has had their constitutional rights violated, please do it if you can.  If a president making mistakes was a crime, every former president would be serving time, they are human beings, not GOD, they make mistakes. 

It is nice to hear that there is noone in the Democratic party that has done any campaign fund violations, I was totally unaware of that.  But thanks for setting me straight.

Oh and by the way, you get impeached for breaking the law, not making bad decisions....but thanks for taking the time to answer...noob
Heh noob. Touche.  First let me say that I am glad that you actually use your brain when making decisions on whom to support and whom to not support. So many people do not use even an ounce of their brains when deciding something as important as a Presidential election and many just blindly follow in the footsteps of their families, peers or social groups. The cost of many thing is going up including the medical fees for retired military. My father is a retired Air Force Captain and most certainly will feel the pinch on his next routine hospital visit. When a grand majority of the funds that are funneled through the military are being used to fund a war such misc. costs are expected to rise and many other things will rise as well. I will not be surprised if the PX or Commissary start charging more normal department/grocery store prices although I don't see them putting a tax on it anytime soon. However that would be an interesting addition a military tax on items bought on base. So where is this money going? Is it truely all being used to fund the war in Iraq? How much are government contractors getting in rebuilding  the infrastructure of Iraq (Halliburton)? There is no secret in how bloated government spending is and with Congress no longer keeping a budget in check I don't see this country bouncing back anytime soon.

As for the impeachment issue, the Center for Constitutional Rights has presented a charge against the president for illegal wiretapping without a Federal Court order. As it stands wiretapping can go without a warrent for 15 days. After which an order must be gotten and approved. There is a special court that rules in the cases where public knowledge would endanger the act and betray the action of wiretapping to those being wiretapped. Even though Bush and his administration could have easily gone through the proper channels they choose to believe that they had the right to supercede the laws of this land because of the country is in a state of war in Iraq. The war on Terrorism is not a "war" in the terms of Congress approving a declaration of war on another country. Hence we do not have a "War on Terror" regardless of how they want to word it. We did have a War in Iraq but that ended as soon as Suddam was found and brought to trial. We are now in a peace keeping mission if anything and no longer in a war. So no matter how Bush, being the front man to his administration, wants to word it, they still broke the law. When a citizen of this country breaks the law they are either fined or serve service or jail time. Is the president above the laws of the land? If charges are to be pressed and if he is found guilty then there is only two things that should be done. Either he should be impeached or he should resign. The movement for Censure will not do anything and will certainly not make this administration remove the illegal wiretapping. All a Censure will do is force the president to admit to a wrongdoing. After which if he continues to do so then that is a blatant slap in the face of Congress which would then promote an immediate impeachment process one would hope.

As for the Democrats, I mention nothing about them being above the law. Many of them have been involved in scandals in the past and the present. I dislike the Democrats almost as much as the Republicans at this point. I think neither party really has the honesty nor virtues that they once possessed. I myself am a Centrist and I would love nothing more for an established 3rd party to appear. I'm actually looking at John McCain as a presidental hopeful in 2008. As of now he has my vote if he because a presidential candidate.


Flavius Aetius wrote:

I am in the reserves. I don't know what you're watching, but the economy is on the rebound.  My thoughts are the thoughts of all of those who care about the security of their country dearly.

How much do you personally know about military doctrine? Why would we need land forces in Iran? It's not a changing of the government, or a hunt for anything else. It would just be a simple 'lets blast the hell out of the facilities'mission. I do know what tuna is. Do you want to put forth a productive argument? You have a lack of experience in military matters as stands now with what you have put forward.

And with the dollar... its still the most widely accepted form of currency anywhere
Being in the reserves you have a very personal outlook on it's funding, training and treatment. How would you say your training has been in comparison to standing military troops. Has the training been increased since the war started? Do you believe that the Reserve Troops being sent to Iraq are adequately trained and equiped to  do the job as standard military troops are?

As for the economy the 8 Trillion dollar debt is the biggest stamp of disapproval for it's future. The proven trend of other major countries cashing in their dollar reserves for precious metals or transfering them to Euro's which unfortunately aren't doing as well as they hoped. Which is why the Chinese are attempting to insert their own currency into the money markets and hope to compete with the Yen. The trend that the price of Gold is directly inversely proportional to the value of the dollor in history. That we the US no longer have a Gold store that our money is based upon, Fort Knox has been empty for years. Essentially the dollar is based upon credit and our countries credit rating is falling very quickly with other countries. The only saving grace is that our economy is huge so anything bad that happens to it directly effects the world's economy. Hence every country that is able is trying very hard to support our economy because they know if we fall they fall. We are proped up, we are being lent money and we are printing new money even more. The new quarters, the new nickles, new printing of bills. How do you think we keep approving more money to spend on the war when we already have an 8 Trillion dollar deficit? We are grinding ourselves into a hole that is just short of a bankrupt nation. The Yen is at an all time high compared to the dollar and the Euro is worth more than the Dollar is currently. Certainly the Dollar has been the representative currecy to all money in the world but that's because we are the  largest economy in the world. We drive the world market. And if we fall.. the world falls with us.

Should I even go on about the price of oil/barrel the price of gasoline being at an all time high? That next winter will be even more expensive than this winter? That we are going into an energy crisis? Not to mention that all weather predicitions show that this hurricane and tornado season will be quite bad which means even more destruction and disaster relief. Insurance being paid out which makes premiums higher. Which we have to pay more of on  a dollar that is worth less to the world that it was 6 years ago.

To us the normal citizen we may not see the warning lights but to economists that aren't being bribed to say false statements... the economy is alarming.

Thank you both on your rebuttle.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
raz
Member
+22|5382|England, UK
VIDEO??????????????? I CBA DOIN' ANYMORE READING LOL :p
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|5562|Bryan/College Station, TX

raz wrote:

VIDEO??????????????? I CBA DOIN' ANYMORE READING LOL :p
Is this a request for Cliff Notes?
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|5559|Cologne, Germany

The question is, what kind of military action the US is considering. If we are talking about an air strike against the nuclear facilities only, without ground troops being involved, it might well be that the US pulls that through without outside help. Israel has done it before, nothing new here.

Still, what reaction will come from Iran, after such an air strike ? All-out war from the Iranian border ?

From a military / tactical POV such a "surgical" strike against only the nuclear facilities might be the best idea /( minimal casualties on both sides ), but what worries me are the after-effects.

The US military is very stretched right now, and I have serious doubts wether they would be able to handle another "invasion" in the middle east, espacially considering the size of Iran.
raz
Member
+22|5382|England, UK

kilroy0097 wrote:

raz wrote:

VIDEO??????????????? I CBA DOIN' ANYMORE READING LOL :p
Is this a request for Cliff Notes?
It's a request for a video on this subject, news video articke? w/e lol
sfg-Ice__
Member
+4|5371
Come on fellas.  This is obvisouly leaked on purpose as a deterant to the iranian goverments stance on its nuclear generation program.  If this information gets out to the public I would sure as hell worry if I was the leader of a country I cared about.

Thats the other issue.  Its not the people there that are the problem.  Its the leadership.  As far as using nukes,  if it means less deaths on each side and the fallout and aftermath will be as reported then I'm all for it.  One mini nuke probably costs about 1billion dollars.  A sustained air bombardment with ground support will most lilkly cost 200 to 300 times that with thousands of deaths on each side.  The math works out.

My only problem is once that door is open will it ever shut?  Will another country feel like they could do it?  When is enough enough?

To be honest, I think I would rather see an assasination team go in..take out those that need to be removed and get out.  Cut the head off a snake and the body will die.  Those of you that think another crazy ruler will jump in should also take into account that the allied forces will put someone in that they can negotiate with.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5319|132 and Bush

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

[anti]NorthBear wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

all hail the nuclear holocaust
LOL, I thought this was debate and serious talk
it is.

I doubt US will use a nuke... But airstrikes in the nuclear facilities would be a good option...
What wrong with a tactical nuke.. one that burrows under ground ... Like a daisy cutter... just don't use the "nuke" word....
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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