superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|6783

We all know that team-play is the key to success in BF2, however EA gives you hardly any incentive to be a team player.  Here's an example.  On Strike at Karkland (64 player) map, as USMC, playing as squad leader I was able to direct my squad through enemy fire and successfully attack the MEC base (where the armor spawns).  Afterwards, I coordinated numerous successful defences of the MEC base so as to protect our armor advantage.  Ultimately this played a big role in the USMC win as it gave us an extra tank and two APCs which made the difference as we won by only about 6 tickets.

Anyways, my final score: 14.  Why?  Because as squad leader I was careful to stay out of the thick of the fighting so as to remain a spawn point for my squad.  A couple of times this was essential as the MEC forces managed to neutralize the MEC Base flag and my squad was able to spawn on my location and successfully drive them back.    As you can imagine I didn't have alot of kills.  What kit did I mostly play during this round?  Anti-tank so that I could help protect  my squad from being annihilated by armor should we run into one.  What did I kill with my limited involvement in fighting?  Two APC's that were tearing my squad to pieces.  How many points for these two kills?  Four points! 

So what's the deal?  I played a great strategic game.  I was a team player.  I organized my squad beautifully even pointing out what kits were needed at various points of the battle.  But in the end I didn't even make the top 20 in points on my team.  I realize that my contributions may be hard to quantify but still, its hard to swallow especially when you do want to take pride in your performace.  Ultimately stats should define how well you play the game because there are incentives built into higher stats: unlockable weapons, priority for commanders positions and even the prestige among your online buddies.  Funny aside, I joined a blackhawk squad last week because they needed an engineer (what i usually play).  I spent about three rounds fixing away on the back of a blackhawk.  Got a ton of points but my team lost both rounds by very large margins.  Not to mention it was the most boring two rounds i have ever played in BF2!!  Just mindless ratcheting away with my wrench!!!

So my question to you all is what can be done to make the stat system more in line with playing the game the right way.  How to reward that squad leader that directs his squad, keeps them alive, and captures and holds key strategic position.  How to reward the poor soul who sits in the anti-aircraft seat and takes a real beating for the team but is able to disrupt the enemy airplanes and choppers enough so that the infantry can have a chance without being blasted from above? What about that special ops soldier who suicide bombs that tank that is raping your spawn point. How do you reward the player who takes one for the team?

Here are some of my suggestions:
1) Everybody on a team should earn a bonus if their team wins (not just the commanders)
2) Active squad leaders should get a bonus for directing their teams.
3) Players should get more points for destroying an enemy tank, apc, helicopter or airplane than for killing a regular soldier.  It is so much harder to do and you take such a beating doing it.  Give that anti-tank specialist for blowing up that tank...its not so easy to do!
4) Outposts should have different values assigned based on their strategic importance so that more points are given for capping or defending them.
5) Players should be required to join a squad
6) Players closer to their squad leader should get more points than those players that join squads and lone wolf it
7) Really reward the attack and defence of artillery, satelite and UAV.  These play such an important part of the strategy in the game
8) Give extra points to players that follow their commander's orders!  This would especially be useful when asking a squad to defend a key point.  To date, as commander, I can remember only a couple of times when squads have listened to my orders of "defend this point".  Give them points for successfully defending it and that may change.

I am sure there are holes in my suggestions that would lead to further abuse of the system for the sake of stat padding, however I would really like to see an improvement in the current state of team-play on servers.  I am curious what other ideas people have about this...

Last edited by superfly_cox (2005-10-03 05:15:09)

Ag3nT-()r@ng3
Another German Mod
+6|6810|Lake Constanze, Germany
Isn't this a BF2 improvement?! Just wondering........


Greetz,
Agent

[/moved]
Stoned_Smurfz
The Mushroom Man
+1|6848|Australia
Thought about this too, some of your ideas are nice, some meh so so.

1. I thought maybe the best squad (on each side) and the commander of the winning side should get 2x
this would encourage people to join and play as a squad.
I dont think everyone on the winning team should get it, would encourage even more team swaping at the end of round
2. meh if he is good enough his squad will get the #1 bonus
3. yeah/no sure they are harder to kill but if your organised they arent?
4. If you give them more points for it then it has to take longer to cap. (every flag is important)
5. LOL So where do we put the Noobs?
6. Eh? Sucks if you got a suacidal leader
7. can see it now and have seen it before, SF blows, Commander supplycrate fix, SF blows, and on and on. Point Farming? I think 2 Is enought for each one - we will see when we get that patch.
8. Such as a commander who tells a squad with no mechanics to go fix his arty on the opposite side of the map?

Theres only so much you can do, if you really want good team play join a clan or something that plays alot of comps/scrims.
CMDR_Dave
Redneck
+66|6843|Missoula, MT
I was thinking more along the lines of a squad that stays within a certain proximity to each other during a round should earn recognition.  This truly takes dedication and teamwork to accomplish.  Squads that stick together seem to be the most successful in each round. 

Example:  Yesterday I was in a squad and we were defending a base.  We stayed there pretty much the whole round.  Well, you guessed it, the fights kept coming to us.  We didn't score the highest, but I'd say we had the most fun of everyone.  Even Bloodysky was there, as our opposition and trying to be sneaky!  Note, I said trying!    It was truly a blast for those couple of rounds.  I thank VoIP and the in-game messaging abilites of BF2 for that.
The Soup Nazi
Member
+18|6789|North Lauderdale, FL
I was thinking about point bonuses awhile back and I've come to the conclusion that if you are on the Best Scores board for a round in a server (i.e. best Medic, most Revives, best Aviator, etc), you should get some sort of bonus.  I'm not saying that it should be x2 their round total, but there should be at least 20 points or so for each category that a player scored first in. 

Not only that, but I agree that the leading squads should get bonuses as well.  Maybe 20 points extra per squadmember and 30 points for the squad leader. 

These added perks would help teamplayers (and serious players, for that matter) work even harder so that they can get that reward.
Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|6822

superfly_cox wrote:

Here are some of my suggestions:
1) Everybody on a team should earn a bonus if their team wins (not just the commanders)
2) Active squad leaders should get a bonus for directing their teams.
3) Players should get more points for destroying an enemy tank, apc, helicopter or airplane than for killing a regular soldier.  It is so much harder to do and you take such a beating doing it.  Give that anti-tank specialist for blowing up that tank...its not so easy to do!
4) Outposts should have different values assigned based on their strategic importance so that more points are given for capping or defending them.
5) Players should be required to join a squad
6) Players closer to their squad leader should get more points than those players that join squads and lone wolf it
7) Really reward the attack and defence of artillery, satelite and UAV.  These play such an important part of the strategy in the game
8) Give extra points to players that follow their commander's orders!  This would especially be useful when asking a squad to defend a key point.  To date, as commander, I can remember only a couple of times when squads have listened to my orders of "defend this point".  Give them points for successfully defending it and that may change.
Some good ideas here. I run into many of the same problems you describe. In that I perform my duties as a good leader, yet my score does not reflect that. In fact most of my teammates reap the rewards.
Here's my reaction to your ideas.

1. Players should not be forced to join squads.
2. Proximity scoring is a problem, i.e. snipers.
3. I think all squad leaders should get a bonus for a win, like a 1.3x score
4. I like the idea of the best squad on the winning team getting an additional bonus. (although it should be modest)
5. I think when the commander issues an order to attack a base, the first soldier there will get a bonus point for capturing it.
6. Squad leaders (and commanders) should get 1 point for every base that is captured by one of their squadmates, but maybe the squad leader only gets .5 points for every kill they make, to get them to take more of a leadership role, and less of an assault role.

I'm not sure about the extra points for a vehicle kill thing. Usually the difficulty in killing the vehicle is offset by the multiple soldiers in it.
Duskwolf
Member
+0|6782

CMDR_Dave wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of a squad that stays within a certain proximity to each other during a round should earn recognition.  This truly takes dedication and teamwork to accomplish.  Squads that stick together seem to be the most successful in each round. 

Example:  Yesterday I was in a squad and we were defending a base.  We stayed there pretty much the whole round.  Well, you guessed it, the fights kept coming to us.  We didn't score the highest, but I'd say we had the most fun of everyone.  Even Bloodysky was there, as our opposition and trying to be sneaky!  Note, I said trying!    It was truly a blast for those couple of rounds.  I thank VoIP and the in-game messaging abilites of BF2 for that.
I'd have to disagree here..
sometime it simply isn't convenient for your squad to be close together.. sometimes you may need coverfire from another angle, you may need to move half your squad to another choke point to defend properly.. you may just need to send a sniper to get cover to take his mark.

That would be the hardest part of the system to get right... It could work well.. but it would need ot be done right. it would have to be based on command value, and a fairly high proximity.. (ok.. we're not talking a 5 minute run, but you would need a reasonable distance, esp for snipers)... so it does depend.

Other than that one, I like the ideas
superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|6783

There's nothing like being in a well organized squad and out maneuvering a numerically superior but unorganized opponent.  To me that is the essence of the game.  Sure, its neat to get a MEC tank on Karkland and rack up an ungodly number of kills, but the most fun I've had is playing in a cohesive unit.  I sure hope EA can modify their point system to improve this:)

Oh, another thing.  Lately, since they eliminated the artillery kills from entering the commander's stats, there are less and less people applying for the position.  I've had quite a few games recently on 64 player maps where nobody on my team wanted the commander position.  Never used to happen before.  I guess the high kill to death ratio that commanders used to rack up was an incentive to play the position...improve your global kill/death ratio...
T1mbrW0lf
Member
+2|6798|Eastern PA
It's also prompting more Commanders to run around fighting instead of keeping their team supported with supplies and tactical info . . . that's almost always a guarenteed loss for the round.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6845|Bryan/College Station, TX
On the points of first few posts many of them are good ideas. Some of them I don't see how they could possibly implement even if they were attempting to do so. But I do like the incentives offered.

As for the Commander subject I have also noticed fewer people applying for the commander position. I hate to think that its simply the kill effect that is making this happen. But I have to also wonder if that's really true. In case of my recently acquired Veteran Spec Ops badge.  I was not killing people in the field as a soldier. I only had maybe 4 to 5 kills with my gun while defending the base I was in. The rest of the kills were from artillery only and yet I still met my 20 kill requirement to get the badge. So I do believe kills are registered at least for certain things like awards.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Tjasso
the "Commander"
+102|6525|the Netherlands
yep

i like beeing Commander ( i can smoke better then )  / like beeing CO & fight with the rest of the TEAM
travisb05
bullseye (+)
+58|6701|U.S
i dont like your ideas would be to complicated but i have a good idea if 2 or more squad members cap a flag squad leader gets a point for it since he is a spawn point and isnt usually in the same area as flag. 2x points for best squad would be nice same as command.

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