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2006-04-04 12:12:08
VidSicious
Member
+25|7069
I started a thread on this over at EA games official forum.  It's a pretty popular thread!  LOL.  Of course, had to give Executioner_Style props for the translation (thanks!). 

I don't understand how so many idiots can think CEA did this for stat padding, etc. While I think CEA is wrong to want free content, I think it does parallel their gripes that EA spends tons of money pumping out nerfed patches and crappy booster packs when they can't leave gameplay alone and fix the obvious bugs.

I even got this response at the EA thread I thought you might enjoy and my response:

TsCheisskopf wrote: What CEA has done is the BF2 equivalent of the little kid who walks into his parent's cocktail party, stark naked and pulling on his willie, screaming "Look at this everyone! Look what I found!".


Actually, TsCheisskopf, you are too shallow in your thinking. However, to use your own analogy, it is the BF2 equivalent of the little kid who finds out his daddy is cheating on his mommy, who he loves dearly, but when he tells people, no one listens to him. So the little kid decides to make an audacious statement that grabs peoples' attention and forces them to listen to his point. So he walks into his parent's cocktail party, stark naked and pulling on his willie, screaming "Look at this everyone! I found the same thing that Daddy is sticking in his secretary!"

There are people who love BF2 and have been trying to get EA to fix the stupid gameplay issues they changed instead of leaving in the bugs. While they somehow managed to spend money pumping out bad patches and expansion packs, they didn't have the money to fix real bugs or hire a focus group of hard core gamers to see if gameplay changes would negatively or positively impact various aspects of the game. For every 1 good change they made (making AA better) they made 3 bad ones (no jump shooting, prone lag, sniper PKM's).

Do you think anyone would have read CEA's website if they had just posted it in cyberspace. NO ! However, by shoving a bug in EA's face for everyone to see, they have got people to read their message. They walked into EA's cocktail party where they were congratulating themselves on the latest nerfing of the game to please all the little 10 year olds out there, when in walks CEA pulling on their willies, yelling, "Look at this everyone! Your programmers are losers!"

Good for them. Go, CEA! CEA says they will just get new CD keys and do it again, and again. I hope they do. It's about time EA has to react to the customers, instead of trampling over what was a great game, and has now been nerfed to just a good game.
2006-04-04 12:50:53
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|6926|Washington, DC

Varegg wrote:

Well joker8baller - so if u find a loophole in your socialservices u exploit it to get attention ?

The issue here is how u conduct business.

Cause guns are deadly u dont shoot your neighbour to prove a point and the same applies for this - u report bugs and glitches because thats the proper way to do it !
Except that simply reporting the bugs is never going to work. Remember when DICE finally said they were aware of the red name tag bug? That was in December, 6 months after the game's release. The horrible, unbalancing things like noob toobing, C4 chucking, dolphin diving? 6 more months.
2006-04-04 19:50:29
KX500Racer
Member
+4|7139
Who here has ever worked for EA/DICE as a programer?  Who here REALLY knows how the whole business works?

Thanks EA/DICE.  I'll continue to pay the small fees to play a GREAT game.  It's so great that we come on a forum and talk about it night and day.  Let's see, computer costs @ $3,000.  BF2, SF, EF @ $90.  Plenty worth it as much time as I spend playing!
2006-04-04 20:05:39
No_Smoking
all your base are belong to us
+35|6992|Sacramento

Ilocano wrote:

No_Smoking wrote:

Is it really the programmers fault?
or maybe the beta tester for letting the bugs get through?

I can see it being the programmers fault if the game was brand new and full of bugs.. cause a beta tester can only do so much.. but if its a somewhat older game, and they release patches... does that fall to the beta tester for catching the bugs?

I was a beta tester for vampire the masquerade (yes my real name is in the credits).. so I can speak a little on this subject. when i tested it, it was full of bugs, some small and some huge. at this point I can say it was the programmers fault for making so hard to get rid of so many problems. we never got to the point of releasing the game bug free. time just was not on our side.

I never got the chance to work on it after release for patches and such, so as far as insight into that area, I cant say.. but I would think after time went on and all the programmers and testers worked together to get rid of bugs, the blame would slowly get passed onto the tester for any future problems.

its the programmers game sure.. but his/her job is to code, not test (for the most part). its the testers job to find the bugs and report them.. if they dont do this, how is the programmer to know a problem exists?

I am willing to bet there are less then 5-10 beta testers for each patch, I also think they are not asigned to bf2 round the clock either, but pulled from other projects.. so they wouldnt know the game inside and out like we do.
I'm a Corporate Application developer.  The harsh reality of software development these days is that it takes teams of programmers/testers and a myriad of third-party application software development tools to develop global applications.  Likewise in gaming development.  Long gone are the days when a sole programmer could create a video game using close to 100% of his own code and release it to market.  Hell, back in college, I made an RPG that was better than Ultima I.  As a programmer, I'm dependent on Microsoft's and Oracle's development tools.  For gaming, add all the myriad of engines/drivers for graphics, physics, online communication, server, and others.  No matter how our code may be, there are just too many factors to completely remove all "bugs".  And back to the teams notion, different portions of the code are developed by different teams.  And there is no way in hell that 100% of one teams code is completely understood by another team.  We do our blackbox and they do their blackbox.  We all hope that our modules are 100% compatible to each other, but sometimes, things cross.

But with all that said, it's still the programmers/testers responsibility to find and fix as much bugs as possible, before it gets into the hands of the user.  What makes this an impossibility is "time to market profit" constraints.  There is just not enough time to find and fix everything.  Don't blame the programmers/testers, blame management and the Marketing department.  LOL.
Yeah I have not seen how programmers work in teams, I did hear about that a while back though. I think the programmers that worked on Vampire were all in the same room and worked together on it. I could be wrong because they were not in house. I think they were in San Fran, and I was in Santa Monica.
I still think they need more testers that know the game mechanics better so they can catch the flaws.. but at the same time get the programmers to fix them rather then release new expansions
2006-04-04 21:32:57
joker8baller
Member
+68|6962
Varegg- But if the company you have previously sent the information on the glitches and still are sending information on the glitches have not done much to fix these problems, and have released "fixes" that only created more problems, then something drastic must be done Look at history, it occurs every so often.
2006-04-04 23:20:45
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7105|Nårvei

ExecutionerStyle wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Well joker8baller - so if u find a loophole in your socialservices u exploit it to get attention ?

The issue here is how u conduct business.

Cause guns are deadly u dont shoot your neighbour to prove a point and the same applies for this - u report bugs and glitches because thats the proper way to do it !
Except that simply reporting the bugs is never going to work. Remember when DICE finally said they were aware of the red name tag bug? That was in December, 6 months after the game's release. The horrible, unbalancing things like noob toobing, C4 chucking, dolphin diving? 6 more months.
Well, if u read between the lines in my numerous posts about this issue i thought u and others would understand this simple lil thing : even though it takes time to fix bugs and EA doesn`t call u 5 minutes after u report a bug that doesn`t mean that u have to keep exploiting it to get your point across.

I have played this game for oh 6 or 7 months now and am aware of several glitches/bugs, i dont take much notice of them and during regular gameplay it does not affect my gameplay - except for redbug, but that have happend only 4 - 5 times since it was reported the first time.

So even though there are several glitches/bugs out there it doesn`t mean u have to exploit them or am i totally off the chart here ?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-04-04 23:26:49
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7105|Nårvei

joker8baller wrote:

Varegg- But if the company you have previously sent the information on the glitches and still are sending information on the glitches have not done much to fix these problems, and have released "fixes" that only created more problems, then something drastic must be done Look at history, it occurs every so often.
I guess u work in the building next to EA so u can monitor what they do every day, i bet they work their asses of every day - might be they dont fix the issues u adresses first - i believe they are capable of deciding what bug/glitches must be taken care of first and what can wait a while because they dont affect gameplay - we cant hold EA/Dice responsble for smacktards exploiting glitches they didn`t have to exploit right.

That the glitches excist does not mean u have to exploit - u can actually play the game without using them !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-04-05 00:20:47
chrise112
Member
+12|6918|Your bathroom

chrise112 wrote:

omg my dad wants to know how to do it lol
how i tell him
sum1 tell me so i can tell my dad or send me a link to a website of how to do it
2006-04-05 00:54:42
joker8baller
Member
+68|6962
Chrise better be kidding...

But anyways Varegg

It does take time to fix bugs, but when you fix them... you shouldn't create new ones... AKA 1.2 patch. Many of the bugs that didn't really bother people were fixed. I mean 1.22? What is this? Changed deviation in PKM and MG36? There was a change? I mean cmon. Red bug is common in larger servers and is deveastingtly annoying, and the other bugs are supremely annoying, and they have yet to be addressed or even acknowledged. Remember 1.2 was *tested* and they found that the red bug glitch was lessened... Released, 40+ glitches found with 1.2, and red bug was even more common... I like CEA because they didn't want to cheat, they wanted to point on the numermous mistakes/exploits/glitches that are there and that EA doesn't seem to care about these glitches! IF EA actually cared about the glitches, why are they releasing NEW BOOSTER PACKS, when the original game has so many bugs in it? On top of that they sell it, but the new BOOSTER PACKS include more glitches, and the patch that comes with it, also screws up the game. So what if they work their asses off on something new, fix your crap before you start something new.

The issues that I present are MAJOR glitches, and EA has not addressed any of them... I believe that over 1/2 the people didn't find any use to 1.22.    I mean 1.2 and 1.21 nerfed the Blackhawk, so it's even worse than the other choppers. PKM sniping was introduced, Claymores made invincible, Chopper pilots gets 6 teamkills if rammed... I mean c`mon. Even the red tag bug became more common. These are significant glitches that need to be addressed first, not some peace of crap thing like adjustment of deviation which I see no difference in.

CEA exploited the glitch to hopefully try and help EA see their mistakes and hoping that EA will go and fix these mistakes. The glitches EA has mainly addressed do not affect gameplay as much as the ones that run rampant in servers.

I mean the game has been out for a year. You'd think the numerous glitches from 1.12 would at least be fixed... Just each new patch fixes minor glitches that no one really cares about and introduces 10 more glitches to BF 2... There is a thread on the 40+ glitches after 1.2...

Why does EA keep putting out new content, such as Euro Force or the coming up Armored Fury? They simply ditched us, as we waited and stuck with a game we loved, because we were hoping that they would change the glitch. However, they are intent on producing more content so we have to pay them more... for a patch and a game that will simply mess up gameplay even more... I mean cmon CLEAN UP YOUR MESSES, before you want people to buy more stuff from you. EA has time to code new games (2142) (which supposedly uses the BF 2 engine) or packs (EF + AF) yet they cannot fix the problems in BF 2?

Shall I get into the detail of the blank unlocks? No global message was given out via BF2HQ. So we were presented with a "test". How many people really go to EA's website to read news on BF 2... WE were told not to unlock the "blank screen" because we would actually unlock the weapon, and we would have no choice. This information came from other people, as many used their unlocks, thinking they got them for free, and they would have more unlocks for the P90 and L96... But people didn't, so the public got screwed

1.2 - Kills Radeon 9200 cards?

This complete screw-up by EA has gone on too long, and CEA stood up and used the exploit to show EA there are MAJOR problems... ALthough EA may not have cared, it started the beginning. Why should we pay for new content, when the old content is still messed up.
2006-04-05 01:10:34
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7058

Ilocano wrote:

Don't blame the programmers/testers, blame management and the Marketing department.  LOL.
Actually, blame the customer. The customer can't wait another week without their precious little game because then they won't spend the money on it and buy something else, from another company.
2006-04-05 01:14:17
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7105|Nårvei

joker8baller wrote:

CEA exploited the glitch to hopefully try and help EA see their mistakes and hoping that EA will go and fix these mistakes. The glitches EA has mainly addressed do not affect gameplay as much as the ones that run rampant in servers.
So you`re saying that when CEA adresses a commander only glitch that noone has ever heard of that will make EA speed up their bugfixing staff ?

I do agree with u in a lot what u are saying - almost everything, my point is CEA aint got shit in return behaving like smacktards exploiting a glitch in this manor, even to prove a point.

This is 101 childraising, u dont teach your kids not to smack other children by smacking them !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-04-05 01:15:11
Echo
WOoKie
+383|7015|The Netherlands

some C.E.A. guy wrote:

We hope that with all the money you make, we'll one day get a free expansion (probably mean content).
Some guy at EA thought: Okay here's something thats free for you C.E.A. lads! *presses a couple of buttons and zeroes their accounts*

Seriously, i knew from the start ea was gonna wipe their stats, why? They violated this part of the ROE: §1.8 Players may not use or exploit game mechanisms to artificially boost their score. Okay they found a bug, nothing wrong with that but using that bug over and over again to get more points is called exploiting. http://www.bf2rankedservers.com/forums/ … .php?t=251

For the people that respect C.E.A for what they did, why dont you guys join their amazing forum and do us a favor please, dont come back...

Last edited by General-Echo (2006-04-05 01:21:23)

2006-04-05 01:25:29
Poncho
and I'm not a raincoat...
+91|7003|NL
ROFL!

https://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~pdang/AA/Retard.jpg


i'm not asking for a ban here but seriously, this is all a big joke to me!
2006-04-05 03:22:35
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7136|Cologne, Germany

well, as long as we don't hear from EA/Dice about this issue, it's difficult to say what's gonna happen.
CEA is going to have those accounts wiped , that's for sure, but it really doesn't matter much because they made those accounts solely for the purpose of nerving EA, and I do believe they succeeded in that.

Chuy has argued that CEA would have been better off not to act so drastically and inform EA/Dice about the bug in a more decent way instead of making a huge affair out of it. Others have said that this would have achieved nothing since a lot of bugs that have been reported according to the SOP's months ago are still not fixed ( red-name bug, for example ). 
I guess EA receives hundreds of e-mails about bugs every month and there is obviously no way of telling what and when they are doing something about a certain issue. Those who report bugs/gltiches/exploits will most likely receive an automated reply saying s.th. like "thank you for contacting EA customer support. Your input is greatly appreciated and we will assess the situation and adress the issue accordingly. have a great day."

I guess most members of the community just have a feeling that EA does not really care about customer support and doesn't take their concerns serious enough.

As I have said before, the global ranking/stats system was one of the major sales pitches for this game and also an important factor that sets BF2 apart from other FPS.
But the stats system on a global scale becomes nearly meaningless if EA cannot guarantee that its integrity can be upheld.

EA sales representative: "in BF2 you can rank up,earn medals and Global Points and compare your score to others in a worldwide ranking system"
Gamer: "ehem...that's all great and stuff, but how can I be sure that all those scores have been earned legit?"
EA sales representative: " well, we haven't come round to that, sorry."

Obviously, I am not expecting that EA have a group of coders ready on a round-the-clock basis to deal with upcoming bugs, but I at least want to have a feeling that they are taking our input and concerns seriously.
Right now, I don't believe they do.
So, apart from the real technical problem in the code, this is also a matter of corporate communication.
Transparency is the key here.

I know that good customer support in the gaming industry is difficult to realize since it is quite costly and does not bring in any money in the short term. This is why most publishers will scale down support for older products or even give it up completely at some point ( most likely as soon as the game ain't selling any more ).
But I am also quite sure that a customer who is provided with good support will be a truly happy customer and thus more willing to buy additional products from that company.

As for the global stats/ranking, I shall disregard them from now on. I will use them to get better personally, improve my game, and maybe compare certain stats ( like K/D, accuracy, SPM ) with those who I know don't cheat or use exploits, but there is really no use in looking at the global rank any more.
2006-04-05 06:57:28
Rumfuddle
Member
+14|7013
I think at this point BF2 is simply being "churned" by EA without much regard for the customer other than as a source of $$$ to feed the EA fires.   Come on, EA bought DICE so it could have greater control over what is produced and here we are - constant whipsawing of game functionality, still no fixes for major bugs like red tag, and gobs of servers vomitously rotating Karkand, Sharqi, Mashtuur and Wake because EA can't be bothered to give us some good new maps. 

All I can say is I'm not buying EF, Armored Fury, or 2142.  I'm waiting for Quake Wars for my next fix.
2006-04-05 07:05:25
Rumfuddle
Member
+14|7013

Poncho wrote:

ROFL!

i'm not asking for a ban here but seriously, this is all a big joke to me!
Your sig pic is a bit out of line.  Naked women, animated pissing on stuff, whatever, but making fun of the retarded here...  Maybe a devestating head injury is waiting for you down the line as a karmic reward.
2006-04-05 09:09:01
VidSicious
Member
+25|7069

Varegg wrote:

This is 101 childraising, u dont teach your kids not to smack other children by smacking them !
Obviously you are not a parent.  You teach your kids the golden rule, paraphrased: "Do onto others as you would have done onto you."  If they smack someone, you tell them the golden rule, smack your kid, then ask them if they think the other kid liked being smacked.

EA needed to get egg on their face for giving us buggy crap patch after patch after patch. 

You should get a {{{ SmAcK }}} .... {grumble} ... you 'tard.
2006-04-05 11:31:48
jord
Member
+2,382|6973|The North, beyond the wall.

Poncho wrote:

ROFL!

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~pdang/AA/Retard.jpg


i'm not asking for a ban here but seriously, this is all a big joke to me!
Lol!i like that pic.
2006-04-05 11:50:48
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7105|Nårvei

VidSicious wrote:

Varegg wrote:

This is 101 childraising, u dont teach your kids not to smack other children by smacking them !
Obviously you are not a parent.  You teach your kids the golden rule, paraphrased: "Do onto others as you would have done onto you."  If they smack someone, you tell them the golden rule, smack your kid, then ask them if they think the other kid liked being smacked.

EA needed to get egg on their face for giving us buggy crap patch after patch after patch. 

You should get a {{{ SmAcK }}} .... {grumble} ... you 'tard.
Obviously you are not a parent yourself - or at best a bad one.

I`m father of three kids, 2 twin boys at 8 and a 12 year old boy so i very well do know what i speak of !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-04-05 14:08:29
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6962

No_Smoking wrote:

Yeah I have not seen how programmers work in teams, I did hear about that a while back though. I think the programmers that worked on Vampire were all in the same room and worked together on it. I could be wrong because they were not in house. I think they were in San Fran, and I was in Santa Monica.
I still think they need more testers that know the game mechanics better so they can catch the flaws.. but at the same time get the programmers to fix them rather then release new expansions
Although I have the skillset (Assembly, C/C++, Compiler, 3D Graphics, TCP/IP, WAN software development), I'd never work for a major Gaming software company.  I value my quality time too much.

Although the BF2 bugs are really DICE issues, just to get some perspective on what the EA programmers have to work with.  But true, they do need testers who actually regularly play BF2.

EA overtime lawsuit settled
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi … ttled.html
Late last year, an anonymous post from "ea_spouse" made public an important but oft-ignored issue in computer games development, that of quality of life. The post, which outlined some of the grave liberties the Canadian uber-publisher took (and continues to take) with its employees, ricocheted around the Web and mainstream newsprint. Quality of Life has since become a point of contestation at various conferences and has been addressed in the Independent Game Developer Association's Quality of Life white paper. To date, on paper and in practice not a lot has happened to tackle these issues, and ea_spouse has taken a backseat in the lore of over-worked industry circles.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11 … 12998.html
Yesterday, a blog entry from the spouse of a worker at Electronic Arts lashed out against the game giant. "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm--seven days a week--with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm)," read the post, which went on to claim that EA employees receive no overtime, "comp" time, or additional vacation for their efforts.
2006-04-05 14:10:31
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7057

Ilocano wrote:

No_Smoking wrote:

Yeah I have not seen how programmers work in teams, I did hear about that a while back though. I think the programmers that worked on Vampire were all in the same room and worked together on it. I could be wrong because they were not in house. I think they were in San Fran, and I was in Santa Monica.
I still think they need more testers that know the game mechanics better so they can catch the flaws.. but at the same time get the programmers to fix them rather then release new expansions
Although I have the skillset (Assembly, C/C++, Compiler, 3D Graphics, TCP/IP, WAN software development), I'd never work for a major Gaming software company.  I value my quality time too much.

Although the BF2 bugs are really DICE issues, just to get some perspective on what the EA programmers have to work with.  But true, they do need testers who actually regularly play BF2.

EA overtime lawsuit settled
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi … ttled.html
Late last year, an anonymous post from "ea_spouse" made public an important but oft-ignored issue in computer games development, that of quality of life. The post, which outlined some of the grave liberties the Canadian uber-publisher took (and continues to take) with its employees, ricocheted around the Web and mainstream newsprint. Quality of Life has since become a point of contestation at various conferences and has been addressed in the Independent Game Developer Association's Quality of Life white paper. To date, on paper and in practice not a lot has happened to tackle these issues, and ea_spouse has taken a backseat in the lore of over-worked industry circles.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11 … 12998.html
Yesterday, a blog entry from the spouse of a worker at Electronic Arts lashed out against the game giant. "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm--seven days a week--with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm)," read the post, which went on to claim that EA employees receive no overtime, "comp" time, or additional vacation for their efforts.
Who is pointing a gun at them forcing them to work there?   Boo fucking hoo
2006-04-05 14:14:58
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|7041

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

No_Smoking wrote:

Yeah I have not seen how programmers work in teams, I did hear about that a while back though. I think the programmers that worked on Vampire were all in the same room and worked together on it. I could be wrong because they were not in house. I think they were in San Fran, and I was in Santa Monica.
I still think they need more testers that know the game mechanics better so they can catch the flaws.. but at the same time get the programmers to fix them rather then release new expansions
Although I have the skillset (Assembly, C/C++, Compiler, 3D Graphics, TCP/IP, WAN software development), I'd never work for a major Gaming software company.  I value my quality time too much.

Although the BF2 bugs are really DICE issues, just to get some perspective on what the EA programmers have to work with.  But true, they do need testers who actually regularly play BF2.

EA overtime lawsuit settled
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi … ttled.html
Late last year, an anonymous post from "ea_spouse" made public an important but oft-ignored issue in computer games development, that of quality of life. The post, which outlined some of the grave liberties the Canadian uber-publisher took (and continues to take) with its employees, ricocheted around the Web and mainstream newsprint. Quality of Life has since become a point of contestation at various conferences and has been addressed in the Independent Game Developer Association's Quality of Life white paper. To date, on paper and in practice not a lot has happened to tackle these issues, and ea_spouse has taken a backseat in the lore of over-worked industry circles.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11 … 12998.html
Yesterday, a blog entry from the spouse of a worker at Electronic Arts lashed out against the game giant. "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm--seven days a week--with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm)," read the post, which went on to claim that EA employees receive no overtime, "comp" time, or additional vacation for their efforts.
Who is pointing a gun at them forcing them to work there?   Boo fucking hoo
You have to pay the bills somehow - what you said is irrelevant (and openly ignorant) to such an issue.
2006-04-05 14:19:02
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6962

GotMex? wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Don't blame the programmers/testers, blame management and the Marketing department.  LOL.
Actually, blame the customer. The customer can't wait another week without their precious little game because then they won't spend the money on it and buy something else, from another company.
Remember the good ole days of pre-Internet?  Patches, what patches?  If we got any, it was one or two a year.  But this was actually a good thing.  Back then, if a game didn't work well out of the bat, the game would not sell.  This forced developers to get as much bugs out as possible before releasing the product.  Now, with the Internet, game developers don't care that they release a buggy product.  They can always release patchs on the Internet.
2006-04-05 14:20:27
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7057

[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ilocano wrote:


Although I have the skillset (Assembly, C/C++, Compiler, 3D Graphics, TCP/IP, WAN software development), I'd never work for a major Gaming software company.  I value my quality time too much.

Although the BF2 bugs are really DICE issues, just to get some perspective on what the EA programmers have to work with.  But true, they do need testers who actually regularly play BF2.

EA overtime lawsuit settled
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi … ttled.html
Late last year, an anonymous post from "ea_spouse" made public an important but oft-ignored issue in computer games development, that of quality of life. The post, which outlined some of the grave liberties the Canadian uber-publisher took (and continues to take) with its employees, ricocheted around the Web and mainstream newsprint. Quality of Life has since become a point of contestation at various conferences and has been addressed in the Independent Game Developer Association's Quality of Life white paper. To date, on paper and in practice not a lot has happened to tackle these issues, and ea_spouse has taken a backseat in the lore of over-worked industry circles.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11 … 12998.html
Yesterday, a blog entry from the spouse of a worker at Electronic Arts lashed out against the game giant. "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm--seven days a week--with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm)," read the post, which went on to claim that EA employees receive no overtime, "comp" time, or additional vacation for their efforts.
Who is pointing a gun at them forcing them to work there?   Boo fucking hoo
You have to pay the bills somehow - what you said is irrelevant (and openly ignorant) to such an issue.
Pay the bills?  If it is so bad working there.......get a different job, move into a condo or apartment and adjust you lifestyle.  You want me to feel sorry for someone who, at least where I work, starts off close to six figures.  The only reason they don't, and the reason most of us don't, is greed and vanity.  So what I said is relavant to the last quote in your post.
2006-04-05 14:22:32
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6962

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

No_Smoking wrote:

Yeah I have not seen how programmers work in teams, I did hear about that a while back though. I think the programmers that worked on Vampire were all in the same room and worked together on it. I could be wrong because they were not in house. I think they were in San Fran, and I was in Santa Monica.
I still think they need more testers that know the game mechanics better so they can catch the flaws.. but at the same time get the programmers to fix them rather then release new expansions
Although I have the skillset (Assembly, C/C++, Compiler, 3D Graphics, TCP/IP, WAN software development), I'd never work for a major Gaming software company.  I value my quality time too much.

Although the BF2 bugs are really DICE issues, just to get some perspective on what the EA programmers have to work with.  But true, they do need testers who actually regularly play BF2.

EA overtime lawsuit settled
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi … ttled.html
Late last year, an anonymous post from "ea_spouse" made public an important but oft-ignored issue in computer games development, that of quality of life. The post, which outlined some of the grave liberties the Canadian uber-publisher took (and continues to take) with its employees, ricocheted around the Web and mainstream newsprint. Quality of Life has since become a point of contestation at various conferences and has been addressed in the Independent Game Developer Association's Quality of Life white paper. To date, on paper and in practice not a lot has happened to tackle these issues, and ea_spouse has taken a backseat in the lore of over-worked industry circles.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11 … 12998.html
Yesterday, a blog entry from the spouse of a worker at Electronic Arts lashed out against the game giant. "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm--seven days a week--with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm)," read the post, which went on to claim that EA employees receive no overtime, "comp" time, or additional vacation for their efforts.
Who is pointing a gun at them forcing them to work there?   Boo fucking hoo
That's the thing.  You have to be a gaming programmer to understand this.  They work there ass off because they love what they are doing?  It's that EA is taking advantage of these people's passion for gaming development.  Look at the moding community and how much time they put into there stuff without getting any compensation.

 

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