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2006-03-27 13:55:58
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
Ahh my old roommate was a pilot for contintal so he'd be the perfect example. Ok he is one of the most responsible person I know with drinking will only do it at a bar if he has a ride, and never drive even if he has one drink(because pilots have a lower blood alchol lvl). Now if this thing takes off even as a preventative measure and he got a public drunkiness charge, he would definatly loose his job, and since flying is all he ever has done he'd be so f-d.  Yes his life and his families life would take a horrible turn for the worse.

Now I don't blame the government for accidents that do happen and those people get what they deserve.  But ever preventative measure that they take infringes on our freedoms. I want my kids to have the ability to f up in the future and not have it horrible effect there lives in the future, accidents happens life is fragile.  But we need to keep things in check for the younger generations.
2006-03-27 13:59:14
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6777

lowing wrote:

basically I agree with all of ya........I am just trying to throw in some realistic "what ifs" to bring this thread some dialog and debunk all of the "absolute" posts.
You are right to do so.

Attempt to defraud... rape... more than you know are on the books.
2006-03-27 14:00:19
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Ahh my old roommate was a pilot for contintal so he'd be the perfect example. Ok he is one of the most responsible person I know with drinking will only do it at a bar if he has a ride, and never drive even if he has one drink(because pilots have a lower blood alchol lvl). Now if this thing takes off even as a preventative measure and he got a public drunkiness charge, he would definatly loose his job, and since flying is all he ever has done he'd be so f-d.  Yes his life and his families life would take a horrible turn for the worse.

Now I don't blame the government for accidents that do happen and those people get what they deserve.  But ever preventative measure that they take infringes on our freedoms. I want my kids to have the ability to f up in the future and not have it horrible effect there lives in the future, accidents happens life is fragile.  But we need to keep things in check for the younger generations.
Actually there is a case where 2 America West pilots were arrested for drunk while flying before they even took off......they were on the flight deck and pushed back out of the gate and was odered back to the gate.


Their defense was actually " we weren't in control of the airplane because they were pushing back to taxi out"

pretty weak defense if you ask me but under your guidelines they are innocent
2006-03-27 14:01:34
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Also on the repeat DWI offender thing, it's somethings that cops look for. It's one of the biggest revenue makers in this state and I"m sure it's the same all over. Now repeat offenders of DWI get jail time and larger fines, but this isn't even targeting them(which it shouldn't because you can't prove they were going to drive the car intill they get into it). It's just one more way the country and state governments are bringing in Money. 2200 x 500= 1,100,000 That's one weekend in Millions of innocent peoples money.

Lowing do you go to bars? and where do you live? I know your against the original post I'm just looking for a background just interested.
I am married now with 2 young sons....my bar hoppin days are long over ( weather I like it or not hehehe) Actually I live in GA same as you I guess.

So I guess ATTEMPTED murder is out huh??

or INTENT to distribute is also out??
Oh I'm from NJ the state where they're two cops per square mile. Not even bar hoppin days what about out with the wife and 2 or 3 glasses of wine? You might feel sober but your not.

Also Not sure I'm getting the attempted murder? DWI=attempted murder?
Or the INtent thing?
2006-03-27 14:06:56
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Also on the repeat DWI offender thing, it's somethings that cops look for. It's one of the biggest revenue makers in this state and I"m sure it's the same all over. Now repeat offenders of DWI get jail time and larger fines, but this isn't even targeting them(which it shouldn't because you can't prove they were going to drive the car intill they get into it). It's just one more way the country and state governments are bringing in Money. 2200 x 500= 1,100,000 That's one weekend in Millions of innocent peoples money.

Lowing do you go to bars? and where do you live? I know your against the original post I'm just looking for a background just interested.
I am married now with 2 young sons....my bar hoppin days are long over ( weather I like it or not hehehe) Actually I live in GA same as you I guess.

So I guess ATTEMPTED murder is out huh??

or INTENT to distribute is also out??
Oh I'm from NJ the state where they're two cops per square mile. Not even bar hoppin days what about out with the wife and 2 or 3 glasses of wine? You might feel sober but your not.

Also Not sure I'm getting the attempted murder? DWI=attempted murder?
Or the INtent thing?
I was saying intent to distribute or attempted murder to counter your statement "Now repeat offenders of DWI get jail time and larger fines, but this isn't even targeting them(which it shouldn't because you can't prove they were going to drive the car intill they get into it)"

Oh ok NJ.......as far as drinks with the wife.....when we go out only one of us drinks that is our personal rule

As far as DWI= attempted murder...............An arguement could be made to support that I am afraid....Same as a DWI actually resulting in a death could be argued as murder.

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-27 14:09:57)

2006-03-27 14:08:43
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

The evidence is common sense, where are you from Wannabe?  Well around here the use of heaver drugs in minors has gone up signifacantly, and my belife it's because Alchol charges have become so ludicriss and most illegal drugs are easier to hide.

With teh existing DWI laws, the limit in New Jersey is .08 as it is in most other states, now that's just two beers. Most people don't feel the effects of two beers you might but most don't. Now here there is a lvl lower DWI which is from .03-.08 which isn't even half a beer for most people.. it's rediculas.
The heavier use is not due to to laws.  Especially when, like you mentioned, they are minors.  It is against the law to drink alcohol under the age of 21 where I'm from.  So, how can cracking down on minors cause them to turn to drugs when "they are easier to hide"?  More so when drug tests will show illegal substances in your blood/urine for months after you use them.  Why don't you try blaming bad parenting or the person consuming the substances? 

If you are complaining about the legal limit then I suggest you find a 'DD'.  How old are you cpt.fass2?  Are you even old enough to drink?
Yup I'm 29 so I am legal enough to drink, and I'm just reflexing from my high school days to these days.  10 years ago we could buy beer and booze in Newark or New York and would use that for experamental purposes. Not a single kid I went to school with died of an overdose or even did herion(the badest drug was Acid). Now in my old high school there has been 3 overdoses in the past year(my sisters and EMT for the town) and I think it's because the drinking laws have gotten really tuff expecailly on underage drinking. Kids mess up, you show me one that hasn't and I'll show you a lier.
2006-03-27 14:19:02
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Ahh my old roommate was a pilot for contintal so he'd be the perfect example. Ok he is one of the most responsible person I know with drinking will only do it at a bar if he has a ride, and never drive even if he has one drink(because pilots have a lower blood alchol lvl). Now if this thing takes off even as a preventative measure and he got a public drunkiness charge, he would definatly loose his job, and since flying is all he ever has done he'd be so f-d.  Yes his life and his families life would take a horrible turn for the worse.

Now I don't blame the government for accidents that do happen and those people get what they deserve.  But ever preventative measure that they take infringes on our freedoms. I want my kids to have the ability to f up in the future and not have it horrible effect there lives in the future, accidents happens life is fragile.  But we need to keep things in check for the younger generations.
Actually there is a case where 2 America West pilots were arrested for drunk while flying before they even took off......they were on the flight deck and pushed back out of the gate and was odered back to the gate.


Their defense was actually " we weren't in control of the airplane because they were pushing back to taxi out"

pretty weak defense if you ask me but under your guidelines they are innocent
What guidlines was I giving you?? I don't belive I said getting drunk at work is a good thing??
2006-03-27 14:24:38
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:


I am married now with 2 young sons....my bar hoppin days are long over ( weather I like it or not hehehe) Actually I live in GA same as you I guess.

So I guess ATTEMPTED murder is out huh??

or INTENT to distribute is also out??
Oh I'm from NJ the state where they're two cops per square mile. Not even bar hoppin days what about out with the wife and 2 or 3 glasses of wine? You might feel sober but your not.

Also Not sure I'm getting the attempted murder? DWI=attempted murder?
Or the INtent thing?
I was saying intent to distribute or attempted murder to counter your statement "Now repeat offenders of DWI get jail time and larger fines, but this isn't even targeting them(which it shouldn't because you can't prove they were going to drive the car intill they get into it)"

Oh ok NJ.......as far as drinks with the wife.....when we go out only one of us drinks that is our personal rule

As far as DWI= attempted murder...............An arguement could be made to support that I am afraid....Same as a DWI actually resulting in a death could be argued as murder.
You are correct sir about the attempted murder but on the same point any car accident resulting in death could be argued as murder(speeding, not using blinker exc.)  Vehicular manslaughter it's called and I know a kid who got 5 years because of it. Now not only does he have in his mind that he killed someone but his future options in life are limited because he got into a sober car accident that resulted in a death.
2006-03-27 14:26:09
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Ahh my old roommate was a pilot for contintal so he'd be the perfect example. Ok he is one of the most responsible person I know with drinking will only do it at a bar if he has a ride, and never drive even if he has one drink(because pilots have a lower blood alchol lvl). Now if this thing takes off even as a preventative measure and he got a public drunkiness charge, he would definatly loose his job, and since flying is all he ever has done he'd be so f-d.  Yes his life and his families life would take a horrible turn for the worse.

Now I don't blame the government for accidents that do happen and those people get what they deserve.  But ever preventative measure that they take infringes on our freedoms. I want my kids to have the ability to f up in the future and not have it horrible effect there lives in the future, accidents happens life is fragile.  But we need to keep things in check for the younger generations.
Actually there is a case where 2 America West pilots were arrested for drunk while flying before they even took off......they were on the flight deck and pushed back out of the gate and was odered back to the gate.


Their defense was actually " we weren't in control of the airplane because they were pushing back to taxi out"

pretty weak defense if you ask me but under your guidelines they are innocent
What guidlines was I giving you?? I don't belive I said getting drunk at work is a good thing??
No no......they were drunk the night before and it carried over.....your guidelines that you shouldn't bust people for something they are about to do. I assume this is how you feel from reading your post......If I am mistaken I stand corrected
2006-03-27 14:27:30
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:


Oh I'm from NJ the state where they're two cops per square mile. Not even bar hoppin days what about out with the wife and 2 or 3 glasses of wine? You might feel sober but your not.

Also Not sure I'm getting the attempted murder? DWI=attempted murder?
Or the INtent thing?
I was saying intent to distribute or attempted murder to counter your statement "Now repeat offenders of DWI get jail time and larger fines, but this isn't even targeting them(which it shouldn't because you can't prove they were going to drive the car intill they get into it)"

Oh ok NJ.......as far as drinks with the wife.....when we go out only one of us drinks that is our personal rule

As far as DWI= attempted murder...............An arguement could be made to support that I am afraid....Same as a DWI actually resulting in a death could be argued as murder.
You are correct sir about the attempted murder but on the same point any car accident resulting in death could be argued as murder(speeding, not using blinker exc.)  Vehicular manslaughter it's called and I know a kid who got 5 years because of it. Now not only does he have in his mind that he killed someone but his future options in life are limited because he got into a sober car accident that resulted in a death.
good point
2006-03-27 14:37:44
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA
I guess the whole thing boils down to this....the more we prove to ourselves that we can not govern ourselves with our own actions the more govt. will step in and do it for us.....maybe they should. I don't know.

If baseball bats were being used to commit murder in our country on an epidemic scale, don't think for 1 minute that laws won't be passed making baseball bats iillegal to own or have in school. We as a society have a responsibility to our govt. and our communities t oact and be responsible citizens, not the other way around.

I guess like a parent......If we are bad and don't learn a lesson we get grounded longer, or spanked harder.
2006-03-27 14:44:06
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:


Actually there is a case where 2 America West pilots were arrested for drunk while flying before they even took off......they were on the flight deck and pushed back out of the gate and was odered back to the gate.


Their defense was actually " we weren't in control of the airplane because they were pushing back to taxi out"

pretty weak defense if you ask me but under your guidelines they are innocent
What guidlines was I giving you?? I don't belive I said getting drunk at work is a good thing??
No no......they were drunk the night before and it carried over.....your guidelines that you shouldn't bust people for something they are about to do. I assume this is how you feel from reading your post......If I am mistaken I stand corrected
Ok your are mistaken let me clarify, he would never get drunk the night before a flight because the blood alchol lvl carries over. Those pilots were guilty of company guidelines, and guilty for being in the cockpit with alchol in there system.  It's a different situation then driving a car, because it's not there plane. Now we all know that driving a car drunk(which I tend to feel that the blood alchol lvl is really low .08=two drinks and I don't know anyone who is enebrated at that lvl) is a horrible thing and they need to start taking more positive preventative measure to stop it. Number 1 and I dont' think it's a horrible idea is get a resonable mass transit system for bar patrons, and such.
2006-03-28 08:58:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass2 wrote:

What guidlines was I giving you?? I don't belive I said getting drunk at work is a good thing??
No no......they were drunk the night before and it carried over.....your guidelines that you shouldn't bust people for something they are about to do. I assume this is how you feel from reading your post......If I am mistaken I stand corrected
Ok your are mistaken let me clarify, he would never get drunk the night before a flight because the blood alchol lvl carries over. Those pilots were guilty of company guidelines, and guilty for being in the cockpit with alchol in there system.  It's a different situation then driving a car, because it's not there plane. Now we all know that driving a car drunk(which I tend to feel that the blood alchol lvl is really low .08=two drinks and I don't know anyone who is enebrated at that lvl) is a horrible thing and they need to start taking more positive preventative measure to stop it. Number 1 and I dont' think it's a horrible idea is get a resonable mass transit system for bar patrons, and such.
nope..........they were also in violation of the FAR's ....not just company standards.

A mass transit system in every major city in the US!!!! now there is a good idea. how come no one has thought of that before??....Lets try it, if it works out we can do a test run on taxies in NYC to see if it is feesable as well. We can see how well it works for the drunks, if it goes good we could expand it so EVERYONE could ride the mass transit system if they wanted to!!!!!!!


How much more "reasonable" are YOU will to pay for with your tax dollars?


I am not interested in the slightest in catering to the drunks of the world............c'mon capt.fess2, you seem intelligent, you know better than to post something like this.

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-28 09:14:42)

2006-03-28 09:28:07
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
Hmm I wasn't talking about in the major city, and it's not catering to all the drunks in world. It's catering to everyone,  Now in NY you have a good mass transit system and the amount of DWI's compared to drunks is resonable low. Also most transit companies make money for the country or city there in. So what I'm saying is instead of droping the BAL(blood alchal limet) and spending more money in enforcement, is to look at other alternatives that could be more benifical for everyone. You take money out of citizens pockets enough you start to damage the econimy and make it harder for everyone.

There are alternatives to punishing which I'm not saying should go away, I'm just saying things like shutles and a more inexpensive way then paying for taxies be put in it's place. This would be benifical if now they start putting a better mass transit system in effect in smaller towns now for several reasons. Number 1 gas prices are high and this would help keep the nations reserves up. Now I'm not saying that it's a perfect plan but we need to start going that route anyway.
2006-03-28 09:42:06
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Hmm I wasn't talking about in the major city, and it's not catering to all the drunks in world. It's catering to everyone,  Now in NY you have a good mass transit system and the amount of DWI's compared to drunks is resonable low. Also most transit companies make money for the country or city there in. So what I'm saying is instead of droping the BAL(blood alchal limet) and spending more money in enforcement, is to look at other alternatives that could be more benifical for everyone. You take money out of citizens pockets enough you start to damage the econimy and make it harder for everyone.

There are alternatives to punishing which I'm not saying should go away, I'm just saying things like shutles and a more inexpensive way then paying for taxies be put in it's place. This would be benifical if now they start putting a better mass transit system in effect in smaller towns now for several reasons. Number 1 gas prices are high and this would help keep the nations reserves up. Now I'm not saying that it's a perfect plan but we need to start going that route anyway.
Ya know what...............if your drunk, call a god damn cab...........if you can't, the bar owner should........But set up a special transit system to stand by and haul drunks around I think is ridiculous and unreasonable.....And I can't believe that you actually meant it when you said it, but, I guess ya did....To put in place the system you are referring to would cost ME money......Now why should I flip the bill for something like this.........How about, a new approach to the problem.............how about, THEY take responsibility for their actions and figure out how they are going to get home BEFORE they go out and get drunk?.........Or have your ass thrown in jail for attempted man-slaughter
2006-03-28 09:50:07
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
Well number 1 it wouldn't be a special transit system it would be a better one. If you live in one of those towns that doesn't have a very large population your stuck with one train and no busses. Now this isn't a major problem now considering that almost everyone owns a car, but with the "oil crisses" we need really do need to start looking at altervative better mass transit systems(that run all night).

Lowing don't you think that would benifit you or your family in some way? It would benifit everyone. The MTA around here makes money and alot of it, and if they made a better statewide one, it would still make money and be self substaining. I think The newark/new jersey had close to a billion dollar profit last year.
2006-03-28 09:58:04
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Well number 1 it wouldn't be a special transit system it would be a better one. If you live in one of those towns that doesn't have a very large population your stuck with one train and no busses. Now this isn't a major problem now considering that almost everyone owns a car, but with the "oil crisses" we need really do need to start looking at altervative better mass transit systems(that run all night).

Lowing don't you think that would benifit you or your family in some way? It would benifit everyone. The MTA around here makes money and alot of it, and if they made a better statewide one, it would still make money and be self substaining. I think The newark/new jersey had close to a billion dollar profit last year.
No it wouldn't benefit me or my family and here is why...............Where ever mass tranit goes crime and falling property values follow.......that is a fact.........you will find no one in the suburbs that wants a god damn bus station, or train stain running through their neighborhood.

and yes Newark is such a wonder place to raise a family with that billion dollars huh

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-28 09:58:48)

2006-03-28 09:59:48
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA
and you want all of this to make sure some drunk gets home safely??
2006-03-28 10:03:07
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
Ahh I meant new york and you'd be surprised newark is getting cleaned up and property value is skyrocketing there, I have alot of clients who live there. Hoboken New Jersey is the best example of what mass transit brings to a community, Bout 10 years ago you couldn't sell a property here for 20,000 now you can't even get a property for under 300,000. Train stations and bus stations raise property values up here.
2006-03-28 11:16:17
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Ahh I meant new york and you'd be surprised newark is getting cleaned up and property value is skyrocketing there, I have alot of clients who live there. Hoboken New Jersey is the best example of what mass transit brings to a community, Bout 10 years ago you couldn't sell a property here for 20,000 now you can't even get a property for under 300,000. Train stations and bus stations raise property values up here.
Maybe so, since it seems that really is the only realistic way to get through the city...........But everywhere else bus stations and train stations are an eye sore and draw nothing but the riff raff for the most part.
2006-03-28 14:10:41
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
See again it could be difference of Area's I know up here mass tansit to and from the city and around the subabrian area's it's in actually helps the value of homes. It's noted on all appraisals, as well as easy access to Highways. I'm working on a bunch of newark deals right now so in two weeks I'll be able to give you updates on property value.

I know in a few more years newark is going to explode like hoboken and jersey city.
2006-03-28 14:38:34
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

See again it could be difference of Area's I know up here mass tansit to and from the city and around the subabrian area's it's in actually helps the value of homes. It's noted on all appraisals, as well as easy access to Highways. I'm working on a bunch of newark deals right now so in two weeks I'll be able to give you updates on property value.

I know in a few more years newark is going to explode like hoboken and jersey city.
LOL see that is the difference between NY/NJ (even California) and the rest of the country................everywhere else that makes up the US is located on planet earth..........congrats on your deals you are working on......sounds profitable for you..............are you in real estate by chance??

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-28 14:39:03)

2006-03-28 14:51:06
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6771|Atlanta, GA USA
Yeah, the subway system in Atlanta is pretty crappy and doesn't cover much of the city.  Not too long ago, they tried to extend it out into some of the surrounding counties and a lot of the residents raised hell, saying it would bring crime out to these counties.
2006-03-28 14:58:31
cpt.fass2
Member
+1|6609
Yup sure am, a mortgage broker.
Planet earth wow that's good for you at least I know for sure what's happening in tx won't happen in NJ/NY and California, because we're still worried about our rights as individuals and want some control for the people. Is middle america so afraid of life that they want laws on there lives to protect them for everything? I guess I'm more of a free thinker then that.

Also the spanking thing for the children that you posted earlier. You can only spank your own children, and I'm damn sure not the child of a lawyer. It's weird how some laws get passed quitely, I and most of america don't have the same sort of values or money the people making the laws do.

"I guess like a parent......If we are bad and don't learn a lesson we get grounded longer, or spanked harder."
2006-03-28 15:07:06
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

cpt.fass2 wrote:

Yup sure am, a mortgage broker.
Planet earth wow that's good for you at least I know for sure what's happening in tx won't happen in NJ/NY and California, because we're still worried about our rights as individuals and want some control for the people. Is middle america so afraid of life that they want laws on there lives to protect them for everything? I guess I'm more of a free thinker then that.

Also the spanking thing for the children that you posted earlier. You can only spank your own children, and I'm damn sure not the child of a lawyer. It's weird how some laws get passed quitely, I and most of america don't have the same sort of values or money the people making the laws do.

"I guess like a parent......If we are bad and don't learn a lesson we get grounded longer, or spanked harder."
No middle America isn't afraid of life at all..........we are just wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more conservative than you guys on the coasts is all..........to us............spending 800,000 on a 3 bedroom ranch is pretty absurd. Just seems the people on the coast are of 2 classes..................poverty stricken or filthy rich..........I get the impression that the middle class on the coasts are disappearing.........alittle off topic from the forum title but hey.....

As far as what happened in TX it is pretty scary, and honestly as independant as TX folks are I am surprised they aren't going nuts over this........who knows maybe they are, until this forum I have never heard of this story.

You will never get an arguement from me against how wrong that was in TX.

 

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