Are you retarded? Or didn't you hear me saying that 'I won't dispute the bible's account of Jesus'?
Isn't it funny that almost EVERY NATURAL PHENOMENON can be explained by the theories of:
Evolution.
Plate tectonics.
Relativity.
Chaos Theory/Quantum mechanics.
And can you give me A DATE for creation? You're saying that humans lived for either 6000, 10000. 2 million of 20 million years. Make up your fucking mind!
And how do you explain cyanobacteria fossils? Don't tell me they are not real - they are real and can be seen ONLY at shark bay. Why only there? Because the predators that fed on them didn't adapt to very saline conditions, that's why.
How do you explain bacteria evolving IN THE LAB? Why are there 'strains' of bacteria - some less than 50 years old? Why are we afraid of bird flu developing human-to-human capabilities? If God created H5N1 so it COULDN'T - why are we afraid it can? Why are we seeing that this virus is the same strain as the one that developed in the 1910's - killing 50 million AT LEAST? WHY AREN'T THEY IDENTICAL?
Is it a coincidence that cows need a diet low in copper - and come from copper-poor areas (Europe)? Is it a coincidence that sheep need a copper-high diet - and come from copper rich areas (Middle Asia)? Why, then, did God say to raise them side-by-side, even though they have vastly different dietary requirements? What explanation do you have for this? God put them there and they just adapted to the conditions? That's called evolution.
How can you explain earthquakes, volcanoes etc. WITHOUT plate tectonics? Isn't it a bit strange that creationists try to debase the theory, then use it to debase another theory? How do you explain sea-floor spreading, AND weird 'strips' of polar reversal? How do you explain subduction?
How come every time we move to a new place, discover new land - the local wildife is demolished? Shouldn't God have known that humans would spread around the world - especially as HE was the one who did it in the first place! What better explanation do you have apart from the one that they had never been in contact with humans - so didn't develop defences afainst them?
Is it a coincidence that our tolerance for rare earth AND trace elements is EXACTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount that is exposed to us? Is it God's work that we need a little selenium, but no lead? Isn't it strange that all of these new, man-made elements are toxic to us AT ALL LEVELS - but God must've knew they were possible! After all, he WROTE the laws of physics! Or did the 'laws of physics' evolve into such - so to speak - as most astrophysicists would say?
How do you explain bacteria that break down chemical materials - none of which are of the slightest use to them? Did God just make it so they can eat it - for no reason whatsoever?
If Genesis is correct, then the oldest human remains should be found either in the middle-east or northwest Africa. But hangon! The oldest remains were found in the RIFT VALLEY - a long way away.
And why would they NEED cities? Why do they NEED agriculture - it is much easier to pick up berries, hunt animals and catch fish than it is to plant a crop and harvest. Very unreliable - you depend on too many factors!
And if there was enough water to cover the Himalayas, as you suggest, where is it now? That is a LOT of water - about 9km deep! All the ice in the world can't raise the sea levels more than you can run in 15 seconds. So there are massive stores of water underground? Then show me evidence! I know there IS water underground - but not that much.
And why do humans need stone tools - the bible says that they were 'granted' the knowledge of much more advanced weapons straight away.
How can a flood disrupt U-235 decay? If the earth was less than 600 million years old - then every single rock with U-235 should have more than half of it - and half lead. But instead, we get rocks with almost ALL lead - and about a tenth of a percent Uranium.
IF the Big Bang never happened - then how do explain CMB? How do explain the inexplicable redshift? How do you explain the absence of ANY elements save hydrogen, deuterium, tritium, helium etc. - until fairly recently? How do you explain quasars seeming to be forming NOW - when redshift says that they formed 10 billion years ago?
How do explain the fact that the Big Bang theory was FIRST PROPOSED BY THE CHURCH? Why are you trying to debunk it? (talking to creationists in general here) Why does it seem to work?
How do you explain superdisasters? I hear no mention of the many asteroids hitting earth in the bible - several million of them - that would disrupt WORLD CLIMATE. I hear no mention of the tens of asteroids - some bigger than the 'dinosaur-killer' that have peppered the earth's surface. I hear nothing about super-eruptions, but they've been happening for millions of years! I hear nothing of hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis and such. Wouldn't have God warned the people of the Earth about these dangers? All they knew about was earthquakes. And surprise! the Middle-East is known for being an earthquake prone zone.
How did the dodo survive the flood, heh? No-one had heard of it until they found it on a remote island. And surprise! evolution can explain how they got there but why they can't get out. How would a flightless bird escape a flood that covered the whole globe?
AND HOW CAN FORTY DAYS OF RAIN CONSTITUTE A GLOBAL FLOOD? The atmosphere holds an AMAZINGLY SMALL amount of the the worlds water (like, under a percent). So you're saying that rain can somehow multiply exponentially the amount of water in the ocean?
If it wasn't global, then why are you purporting all this 'evidence' that says it was?
Why are you so SELECIVE when choosing evidence - you seem to focus on carbon dating, but that's not how some very old rocks are dated. How do you explain a rock dated to 4.3 billion years in Western Australia? The flood? Don't work - zircons can survive - untounched - ALL geologic processes - except subduction (which constitutes plate tectonics. And Australia never has HAD subduction). Remember what I said about radioactive decay? Maybe not, so I will post the answer direct from a well-regarded physics site:
"Because the radioactive half-life of a given radioisotope is not affected by temperature, physical or chemical state, or any other influence of the environment outside the nucleus save direct particle interactions with the nucleus, then radioactive samples continue to decay at a predictable rate. If determinations or reasonable estimates of the original composition of a radioactive sample can be made, then the amounts of the radioisotopes present can provide a measurement of the time elapsed." -- Hyperphysics
So I'm afraid until you can do these two things:
1. Show me how else bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics and develop new capabilities in a FEW YEARS. - without evolution.
2. Show me how a global flood is scientifically possible - and if not, how uranium/lead zircons can be dated wrongly - given the info I just posted.
3. Show me another, scientifically PLAUSIBLE theory that takes in ALL THE EVIDENCE and fits in with it - something creationists have never done. They are incredibly inconsistent - not giving exact evidence, not giving exact dates or info, giving very sketchy data etc.
Until you comprehensively answer these three questions, you have LOST.
EDITS: After dinner stuff... from the zircons onwards. ~Spark
Isn't it funny that almost EVERY NATURAL PHENOMENON can be explained by the theories of:
Evolution.
Plate tectonics.
Relativity.
Chaos Theory/Quantum mechanics.
And can you give me A DATE for creation? You're saying that humans lived for either 6000, 10000. 2 million of 20 million years. Make up your fucking mind!
And how do you explain cyanobacteria fossils? Don't tell me they are not real - they are real and can be seen ONLY at shark bay. Why only there? Because the predators that fed on them didn't adapt to very saline conditions, that's why.
How do you explain bacteria evolving IN THE LAB? Why are there 'strains' of bacteria - some less than 50 years old? Why are we afraid of bird flu developing human-to-human capabilities? If God created H5N1 so it COULDN'T - why are we afraid it can? Why are we seeing that this virus is the same strain as the one that developed in the 1910's - killing 50 million AT LEAST? WHY AREN'T THEY IDENTICAL?
Is it a coincidence that cows need a diet low in copper - and come from copper-poor areas (Europe)? Is it a coincidence that sheep need a copper-high diet - and come from copper rich areas (Middle Asia)? Why, then, did God say to raise them side-by-side, even though they have vastly different dietary requirements? What explanation do you have for this? God put them there and they just adapted to the conditions? That's called evolution.
How can you explain earthquakes, volcanoes etc. WITHOUT plate tectonics? Isn't it a bit strange that creationists try to debase the theory, then use it to debase another theory? How do you explain sea-floor spreading, AND weird 'strips' of polar reversal? How do you explain subduction?
How come every time we move to a new place, discover new land - the local wildife is demolished? Shouldn't God have known that humans would spread around the world - especially as HE was the one who did it in the first place! What better explanation do you have apart from the one that they had never been in contact with humans - so didn't develop defences afainst them?
Is it a coincidence that our tolerance for rare earth AND trace elements is EXACTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount that is exposed to us? Is it God's work that we need a little selenium, but no lead? Isn't it strange that all of these new, man-made elements are toxic to us AT ALL LEVELS - but God must've knew they were possible! After all, he WROTE the laws of physics! Or did the 'laws of physics' evolve into such - so to speak - as most astrophysicists would say?
How do you explain bacteria that break down chemical materials - none of which are of the slightest use to them? Did God just make it so they can eat it - for no reason whatsoever?
If Genesis is correct, then the oldest human remains should be found either in the middle-east or northwest Africa. But hangon! The oldest remains were found in the RIFT VALLEY - a long way away.
And why would they NEED cities? Why do they NEED agriculture - it is much easier to pick up berries, hunt animals and catch fish than it is to plant a crop and harvest. Very unreliable - you depend on too many factors!
And if there was enough water to cover the Himalayas, as you suggest, where is it now? That is a LOT of water - about 9km deep! All the ice in the world can't raise the sea levels more than you can run in 15 seconds. So there are massive stores of water underground? Then show me evidence! I know there IS water underground - but not that much.
And why do humans need stone tools - the bible says that they were 'granted' the knowledge of much more advanced weapons straight away.
How can a flood disrupt U-235 decay? If the earth was less than 600 million years old - then every single rock with U-235 should have more than half of it - and half lead. But instead, we get rocks with almost ALL lead - and about a tenth of a percent Uranium.
IF the Big Bang never happened - then how do explain CMB? How do explain the inexplicable redshift? How do you explain the absence of ANY elements save hydrogen, deuterium, tritium, helium etc. - until fairly recently? How do you explain quasars seeming to be forming NOW - when redshift says that they formed 10 billion years ago?
How do explain the fact that the Big Bang theory was FIRST PROPOSED BY THE CHURCH? Why are you trying to debunk it? (talking to creationists in general here) Why does it seem to work?
How do you explain superdisasters? I hear no mention of the many asteroids hitting earth in the bible - several million of them - that would disrupt WORLD CLIMATE. I hear no mention of the tens of asteroids - some bigger than the 'dinosaur-killer' that have peppered the earth's surface. I hear nothing about super-eruptions, but they've been happening for millions of years! I hear nothing of hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis and such. Wouldn't have God warned the people of the Earth about these dangers? All they knew about was earthquakes. And surprise! the Middle-East is known for being an earthquake prone zone.
How did the dodo survive the flood, heh? No-one had heard of it until they found it on a remote island. And surprise! evolution can explain how they got there but why they can't get out. How would a flightless bird escape a flood that covered the whole globe?
AND HOW CAN FORTY DAYS OF RAIN CONSTITUTE A GLOBAL FLOOD? The atmosphere holds an AMAZINGLY SMALL amount of the the worlds water (like, under a percent). So you're saying that rain can somehow multiply exponentially the amount of water in the ocean?
If it wasn't global, then why are you purporting all this 'evidence' that says it was?
Why are you so SELECIVE when choosing evidence - you seem to focus on carbon dating, but that's not how some very old rocks are dated. How do you explain a rock dated to 4.3 billion years in Western Australia? The flood? Don't work - zircons can survive - untounched - ALL geologic processes - except subduction (which constitutes plate tectonics. And Australia never has HAD subduction). Remember what I said about radioactive decay? Maybe not, so I will post the answer direct from a well-regarded physics site:
"Because the radioactive half-life of a given radioisotope is not affected by temperature, physical or chemical state, or any other influence of the environment outside the nucleus save direct particle interactions with the nucleus, then radioactive samples continue to decay at a predictable rate. If determinations or reasonable estimates of the original composition of a radioactive sample can be made, then the amounts of the radioisotopes present can provide a measurement of the time elapsed." -- Hyperphysics
So I'm afraid until you can do these two things:
1. Show me how else bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics and develop new capabilities in a FEW YEARS. - without evolution.
2. Show me how a global flood is scientifically possible - and if not, how uranium/lead zircons can be dated wrongly - given the info I just posted.
3. Show me another, scientifically PLAUSIBLE theory that takes in ALL THE EVIDENCE and fits in with it - something creationists have never done. They are incredibly inconsistent - not giving exact evidence, not giving exact dates or info, giving very sketchy data etc.
Until you comprehensively answer these three questions, you have LOST.
EDITS: After dinner stuff... from the zircons onwards. ~Spark
Last edited by Spark (2006-05-03 03:47:28)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
