BladeRunner
Member
+5|6719|UK
Yea...but he didn't spend 60 years behind a desk doing the same thing ever day. 30 years on and people still know his name. Who will remember you when you're gone?
tonypotsnpans
Member
+0|6739
Since none have offered to legalize any but Marijuana, I focus on that primarily.
Myth #1: Illicit drugs are no more harmful than legal drugs like alcohol or tobacco.
Facts are: A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers do. Many of the extra sick days used by the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.(1)  Even infrequent marijuana use can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illnesses, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency toward obstructed airways. Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke.(2)  A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and that the more marijuana smoked, the greater the increase. A statistical analysis of the data suggested that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers(3).  Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens(4).  In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.(5).  It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form, levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells.(6).  Some adverse health effects caused by marijuana may occur because THC impairs the immune system's ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer(7). I will use the space to list effects on Children who have been exposed in the womb. You decide if its worth it.
Myth #2: Legalization makes economic sense. Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke believes drugs can be a revenue source for the government. "Remove the profit motive, and you put the dealers out of business... have government stores and buy marijuana cigarettes... nicely wrapped, purity and potency guaranteed with a tax stamp. Source: Mark S. Gold, The Good News About Drugs and Alcohol (New York: Viliard Books, 1991). pg 246
Facts are: Health costs associated with legalization would be very high. And legalization would have consequences elsewhere. For example, the Drug Enforcement Administration says legalization of drugs will cost society between $140-210 billion a year in lost productivity and job-related accidents. And insurance companies would pass on accident expenses to consumers(8). The Institute for Health Policy at Brandeis University found that in 1990 dollars the societal cost of substance abuse is in excess of $238 billion, of which $67 billion is for illicit drugs. The report states, "As the number one health problem in the country, substance abuse places a major burden on the nation's health care system and contributes to the high cost of health care. In fact, substance abuse -- the problematic use of alcohol, illicit drugs and tobacco -- places an enormous burden on American society as a whole."(9).
Myth #3: Other Nations have successfully legalized Drugs.
Facts are: Opium was legalized in China earlier this century. That decision resulted in 90 million addicts and it took a half-century to repair the damage(10).  Modern-day Netherlands is often cited as a country which has successfully legalized drugs. Marijuana is sold over the counter and police seldom arrest cocaine and heroin users. But official tolerance has led to significant increases in addiction. Amsterdam's officials blame the significant rise in crime on the liberal drug policy. The city's 7,000 addicts are blamed for 80 percent of all property crime and Amsterdam's rate of burglary is now twice that of Newark, New Jersey. Drug problems have forced the city to increase the size of the police force and the city fathers are now rethinking the drug policy(11). The Swiss opened a "legalized drug" area in Zurich seven years ago and local addicts were given drugs, clean needles, and emergency medical care. Unfortunately, the liberal policy backfired and the number of addicts surged to 3,500; violence surged, too. "Needle Park," as it came to be known, was a place of open warfare among rival gangs, and even police faced gunfire. Their cars were attacked and overturned. In February 1995, officials ended the experiment, conceding that it had evolved into a grotesque spectacle(12). There are some countries, especially in the Middle East, which extract a high price for drug trafficking. These countries enjoy relative freedom from the plague of drug abuse and crime associated with illicit sales. This is never mentioned by Legalization proponents
America has never been united by blood or birth or soil. We are bound by ideals that move us    beyond our backgrounds, lift us above our interests and teach us what it means to be citizens.                                George W. Bush (1946 - ), Inaugural address, 2001

(1)Polen, M.R; Sidney, S.; Tekawa, I.S.; Sadler. M.; and Friedman, G.D. Health care use by frequent marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco. West J Med 158:596-601, 1993.
(2)Tashkin, D.P. Pulmonary complications of smoked substance abuse. West J Med 152:525-530, 1990
(3)Zhang, Z.-F.; Morgenstern, H.; Spitz, M.R.; Tashkin, D.P.; Yu, G.-P.; Marshall, J.R.; Hsu, T.C; and Schantz, S.P. Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck. Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention 6:1071-1078, 1999.
(4)Sridhar, K.S.; Raub, W.A.; Weatherby, N.L., Jr.; Metsch, L.R.; Surratt, H.L.; Inciardi, J.A.; Duncan, R.C.; Anwyl, R.S.; and McCoy, C.B. Possible role of marijuana smoking as a carcinogen in the development of lung cancer at a young age. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 26(3):285-288, 1994.
(5)Hoffman, D.; Brunnemann, K.D.; Gori, G.B.; and Wynder, E.E.L. On the carcinogenicity of marijuana smoke. In: V.C. Runeckles, ed., Recent Advances in Phytochemistry. New York: Plenum, 1975.
(6)Cohen, S. Adverse effects of marijuana: Selected issues. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 362:119-124, 1981.
(7)Adams, I.B.; and Martin, B.R. Cannabis: Pharmacology and toxicology in animals and humans. Addiction 91:1585-1614, 1996.
(8)U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Source book of Criminal Justice Statistics -- 1992, NCJ-143496 (Washington, D.C.: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1992) 603-604. 38. U.S.        Department of Justice,U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization 32.
(9)Substance Abuse: The Nation's Number One Health Problem, Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis University, prepared for The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, Princeton, New Jersey, October 1993:     8-16.
(10)The Drug Policy Letter (Washington, D.C.: The Drug Policy Foundation, 22 Spring 1994).
(11)U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization. See also: Roques, Legalization 27 December 1994.
(12)Lee P. Brown, 15 July 1994. See also: U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization and Bernard D. Kaplan, "Legalized Drug Program Collapses in Zurich." Richmond Times-    Dispatch 26 February 1995: F-3.
BladeRunner
Member
+5|6719|UK
A point well made. Not that I agree with your figures, but still you have alot of salient points.

I think the openess I was talking about before is reflected a little in this whole BF2 map hack thing that's going on. Like the drugs world, the gaming world is keeping very guarded about these hacks and trying to stop people finding out about them. The upshot of this, is that most of the people who know about the hack are the hackers. If details of the locations of these glitches were made fully public so WE ALL knew...it would render them useless because it's the first place we'd all check.

Not sure I explained that very well, but anyhoo
CreepingDeath
Member
+1|6714
No, the goverment would never do it because they would lose so much.
Now days if your caught with the littlest amount in your car . They get to take it from you . Dealing from your house they get to take it away from you. They make so much money off of it being illegal why would they ever legalize it?
  Same as prositution. Why is it legal in some states but not in most ?
Ever heard of a prostitute going to prison over being one? No, maybe over night to make it look good and a stiff fine.But thats all.Making the GOVERMENT the biggest pimp daddy of them all.
BladeRunner
Member
+5|6719|UK

CreepingDeath wrote:

Ever heard of a prostitute going to prison over being one? No, maybe over night to make it look good and a stiff fine.But thats all.Making the GOVERMENT the biggest pimp daddy of them all.
In the UK they tend to target the customer...they see the prostitute as the victim.
KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|6711|Fort Worth, Texas
Use your hand and a book it saves money and life. (AIDS) LOL  I know I forgot your brain... Imagine....
doxy
Member
+74|6761|Nevis
if i remember right, the netherlands got their legalization since more than 300 years, their "coffee shops" were once some kind of bars, during the colonial times, this was when the first imigrants brought it to the NL. it's heavily integrated into the netherlands society, that, imo, there is no way to ban it in near future. i also think, there is no way for other countries to legalize it. try to imagine a possibility to bring legalization to a society,lets say,  from today on u can buy/smoke under special restrictions
(smoking areas, agecontrol, no public consumption)? sure boarder patrols could get bring more attention to illegal imigrated, but what about drug enforcements? wanna reduce them round 20%? release all the prisoners, that are blocked out society for reasons, that would'nt bring them there anymore? flipside to that coin would be to pay their social welfare? probably some countries will invent laws which will allow u to carry some, but i don't think there will be legalized trading.

Last edited by doxy (2005-11-15 13:06:04)

KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|6711|Fort Worth, Texas
Make it ligal and maybe force people who do it to take very large amounts and and the ones that die would know drugs are no good and the rest will be safer and continue to smoke pot and drink.
Pseudomissy
Member
+0|6708|Holland
i live in the north of holland and the back of my house is located in a red light district.
i see lots of stuff going on here concerning pot and hard drugs.
there are lots of junkies here but still for me this is one of the safest neighbourhoods to be in.
i could easily walk past there in the middle of the night (okay i would get some crappy comment and some men sometimes look at me like they would wanna spend some time with me to put it politly,but thats about it)
i think a lot of these guys would be a lot more stressed if they couldn't get the pot right around the corner and to be honest i never see any fight or anything like that around coffe shops.
legal pot is fine the rest should be illegal as it is.
KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|6711|Fort Worth, Texas
But you just said you see hard drugs? So like do you like seeing needles in your back yard and what about when one can not get a fix are you not concerned of what he may do. Have you heard of Aids? Why put yourself in a position to be hurt by walking around that stuff. Go to Aruba and help find the missing girl and see the drugs there. Holland is so miss informed. A question do they take all seeds out of the Pot? If no, that is why they mail it to America in card board so we can grow it here. Seems like a crime to me. But nothing is wrong in your country. Hogwash.
Pseudomissy
Member
+0|6708|Holland
i dont see needles in my backyard.
and yes it is a crime,if i could stop it i would but i cant.
i dont actually see deals made or junkies take a shot,but i know it happens.
but i've never had any bother with them because they know the kcops will be here witihin 2 minutes.

and yes i've heard of aids and no im not concerned about it.
because this actually is one of the safest neighbourhoods in my region.

holland is not misinformed.
because we think otherwise doesn't mean we are idiots.
we don't allow hard drugs.
KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|6711|Fort Worth, Texas
No you don't but it is seen by you all the time, Please. If you have never seen it you can not say it is around, unless you lied and saw needles. I guess Holland is nothing but cops everywhere but they get a kick back from drug lords so they turn away and don't see what you see. Be careful.
section9
Member
+9|6818|USA
and I would not feel so all alone......everybody must get stoned......
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|6705
Legalizing marijuana would be the first and most obvious step. To have that illegal and alcohol legal is simply ridiculous. As far as legalizing all other drugs, that's a tricker subject. At the very least drug addiction needs to be treated as a public health concern as opposed to a criminal matter.

Prohibition of anything only serves to create a black market and put money into the hands of criminals.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|6705

BladeRunner wrote:

In the UK they tend to target the customer...they see the prostitute as the victim.
Yeah, that's pretty retarded. Hell, prositituion being illegal is government stupidity at its' finest. Let's take the oldest profession in the world and make it illegal so that there's no regulation for the safety and health of all parties involved. Brilliant.
VirtuaLResistancE
ArmChair Warrior
+4|6726|NH - USA
Like some states and provinces I think the most they should do is dismiss any charges for anyone posessing a personal amount of ...say like under an ounce or so of weed. I dont think they should outright make it legal, however - that would open a can of worms in many regards.

https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/PANZER420/hts.jpg

Last edited by VirtuaLResistancE (2005-11-23 09:25:49)

section9
Member
+9|6818|USA
some of you make great parrots
^*AlphA*^
F*ckers
+3,135|6708|The Hague, Netherlands

KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit wrote:

I guess Holland is nothing but cops everywhere but they get a kick back from drug lords so they turn away and don't see what you see. Be careful.
Man i don't know were you have that from, but thats rubish all the way, Holland only legalized softdrugs and then you can only have a little amount with you (like a joint, i see that all the time) i rather walk here at night true the streets then in some cities in the US.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36eac2cb6af70a43508fd8d1c93d3201f4e23435.png
VirtuaLResistancE
ArmChair Warrior
+4|6726|NH - USA

section9 wrote:

some of you make great parrots
Some you make great monkies!

https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/PANZER420/YesThisIsYou.jpg

Last edited by VirtuaLResistancE (2005-11-23 09:26:32)

KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|6711|Fort Worth, Texas
Not me I walk in the streets here with my legal 40 call Glock Concealed carry, walk with me...
rc-combat
Member
+1|6744
I don't do them, but hell legalize and tax them, take some of the pressure off of me to support welfare through my hard work.
Pseudomissy
Member
+0|6708|Holland

KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit wrote:

No you don't but it is seen by you all the time, Please. If you have never seen it you can not say it is around, unless you lied and saw needles. I guess Holland is nothing but cops everywhere but they get a kick back from drug lords so they turn away and don't see what you see. Be careful.
if you would see how i live u would now what i mean.
i dont actually see the needles but i do see the tripping junkies and the peeps that get rich from it.
therefor i can say i know it is around.

someone else made a good point,rather have the dealers walk around here then a store selling the biggest guns around every corner. i can honestly say i would be save in my neighbourhood as a girl on my own at three o clock at night.
section9
Member
+9|6818|USA

VirtuaLResistancE wrote:

section9 wrote:

some of you make great parrots
Some you make great monkies!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/P … sIsYou.jpg
hey hey we're the monkies and people say we monkey around but we're too busy singing to put anybody down.........
WilhelmSissener
Banned
+557|6703|Oslo, Norway
to "thread" starter:

Your idea/suggjestion seems to me to be the most therifficly stupid idea i have ever heard. to me illigal drugs appear as a mixture oc weak cyanide (for the few of you that don't know what it is, it is a poison invented by Nazi Germany, also this is the type of poison that asshole--> Adolf Hitler <-- asshole used to commit suicide with) and nicotin (a chemical that causes addiction)
VirtuaLResistancE
ArmChair Warrior
+4|6726|NH - USA

tonypotsnpans wrote:

Since none have offered to legalize any but Marijuana, I focus on that primarily.
Myth #1: Illicit drugs are no more harmful than legal drugs like alcohol or tobacco.
Facts are: A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers do. Many of the extra sick days used by the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.(1)  Even infrequent marijuana use can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illnesses, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency toward obstructed airways. Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke.(2)  A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and that the more marijuana smoked, the greater the increase. A statistical analysis of the data suggested that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers(3).  Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens(4).  In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.(5).  It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form, levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells.(6).  Some adverse health effects caused by marijuana may occur because THC impairs the immune system's ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer(7). I will use the space to list effects on Children who have been exposed in the womb. You decide if its worth it.
Myth #2: Legalization makes economic sense. Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke believes drugs can be a revenue source for the government. "Remove the profit motive, and you put the dealers out of business... have government stores and buy marijuana cigarettes... nicely wrapped, purity and potency guaranteed with a tax stamp. Source: Mark S. Gold, The Good News About Drugs and Alcohol (New York: Viliard Books, 1991). pg 246
Facts are: Health costs associated with legalization would be very high. And legalization would have consequences elsewhere. For example, the Drug Enforcement Administration says legalization of drugs will cost society between $140-210 billion a year in lost productivity and job-related accidents. And insurance companies would pass on accident expenses to consumers(8). The Institute for Health Policy at Brandeis University found that in 1990 dollars the societal cost of substance abuse is in excess of $238 billion, of which $67 billion is for illicit drugs. The report states, "As the number one health problem in the country, substance abuse places a major burden on the nation's health care system and contributes to the high cost of health care. In fact, substance abuse -- the problematic use of alcohol, illicit drugs and tobacco -- places an enormous burden on American society as a whole."(9).
Myth #3: Other Nations have successfully legalized Drugs.
Facts are: Opium was legalized in China earlier this century. That decision resulted in 90 million addicts and it took a half-century to repair the damage(10).  Modern-day Netherlands is often cited as a country which has successfully legalized drugs. Marijuana is sold over the counter and police seldom arrest cocaine and heroin users. But official tolerance has led to significant increases in addiction. Amsterdam's officials blame the significant rise in crime on the liberal drug policy. The city's 7,000 addicts are blamed for 80 percent of all property crime and Amsterdam's rate of burglary is now twice that of Newark, New Jersey. Drug problems have forced the city to increase the size of the police force and the city fathers are now rethinking the drug policy(11). The Swiss opened a "legalized drug" area in Zurich seven years ago and local addicts were given drugs, clean needles, and emergency medical care. Unfortunately, the liberal policy backfired and the number of addicts surged to 3,500; violence surged, too. "Needle Park," as it came to be known, was a place of open warfare among rival gangs, and even police faced gunfire. Their cars were attacked and overturned. In February 1995, officials ended the experiment, conceding that it had evolved into a grotesque spectacle(12). There are some countries, especially in the Middle East, which extract a high price for drug trafficking. These countries enjoy relative freedom from the plague of drug abuse and crime associated with illicit sales. This is never mentioned by Legalization proponents
America has never been united by blood or birth or soil. We are bound by ideals that move us    beyond our backgrounds, lift us above our interests and teach us what it means to be citizens.                                George W. Bush (1946 - ), Inaugural address, 2001

(1)Polen, M.R; Sidney, S.; Tekawa, I.S.; Sadler. M.; and Friedman, G.D. Health care use by frequent marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco. West J Med 158:596-601, 1993.
(2)Tashkin, D.P. Pulmonary complications of smoked substance abuse. West J Med 152:525-530, 1990
(3)Zhang, Z.-F.; Morgenstern, H.; Spitz, M.R.; Tashkin, D.P.; Yu, G.-P.; Marshall, J.R.; Hsu, T.C; and Schantz, S.P. Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck. Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention 6:1071-1078, 1999.
(4)Sridhar, K.S.; Raub, W.A.; Weatherby, N.L., Jr.; Metsch, L.R.; Surratt, H.L.; Inciardi, J.A.; Duncan, R.C.; Anwyl, R.S.; and McCoy, C.B. Possible role of marijuana smoking as a carcinogen in the development of lung cancer at a young age. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 26(3):285-288, 1994.
(5)Hoffman, D.; Brunnemann, K.D.; Gori, G.B.; and Wynder, E.E.L. On the carcinogenicity of marijuana smoke. In: V.C. Runeckles, ed., Recent Advances in Phytochemistry. New York: Plenum, 1975.
(6)Cohen, S. Adverse effects of marijuana: Selected issues. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 362:119-124, 1981.
(7)Adams, I.B.; and Martin, B.R. Cannabis: Pharmacology and toxicology in animals and humans. Addiction 91:1585-1614, 1996.
(8)U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Source book of Criminal Justice Statistics -- 1992, NCJ-143496 (Washington, D.C.: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1992) 603-604. 38. U.S.        Department of Justice,U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization 32.
(9)Substance Abuse: The Nation's Number One Health Problem, Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis University, prepared for The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, Princeton, New Jersey, October 1993:     8-16.
(10)The Drug Policy Letter (Washington, D.C.: The Drug Policy Foundation, 22 Spring 1994).
(11)U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization. See also: Roques, Legalization 27 December 1994.
(12)Lee P. Brown, 15 July 1994. See also: U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization and Bernard D. Kaplan, "Legalized Drug Program Collapses in Zurich." Richmond Times-    Dispatch 26 February 1995: F-3.
ThatseemsveryinfomativebutthereisnowayImgoingtoreadallofthatbecauseitlookssortalikethistome.

Format (i.e. spacing) can make all the difference in the world.

Regarding the theme I sense in it - who cares about the health risks, the world is becoming over populated anywAY.....people have been smoking for ages, and we're all gonna die somehow, sometime. Given the average life expectancy is like 70 or something...we need this to help knock a few down before that.

These days, "life is dangerous to your health" ...hmmm, I think I'll throw that in my sig. thanks! 

Last edited by VirtuaLResistancE (2005-11-25 00:08:10)

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