Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6705|California
Hecklers harass families of US soldiers killed in Iraq
Mar 12 7:21 AM US/Eastern

Five women sang and danced as they held up signs saying "thank God for dead soldiers" at the funeral of an army sergeant who was killed by an Iraqi bomb.

For them, it was the perfect way to spread God's word: America was being punished for tolerating homosexuality.

For the hundreds of flag waving bikers who came to this small town in Michigan Saturday to shield the soldier's family, it was disgusting.

"That could be me in that church," said Jackie Sandler whose son Keith is currently serving his second tour of duty in Iraq.

The fringe group of fire and brimstone Baptists from Kansas has been courting controversy for more than 15 years, traveling the country with their hateful signs and slogans.

The Westboro Baptist Church first gained national notoriety when they picked the funeral of Matthew Shepard, a Wyoming student who was murdered in 1998 for being gay.

They have since picketed the funerals of Frank Sinatra and Bill Clinton's mother, celebrated the terrorist attacks of September 11 as an act of God's wrath, and have even targeted Santa Claus and the Ku Klux Klan.

But it was the callousness and cruelty of harassing the grieving families of soldiers at dozens of funerals across the country that has sparked a grassroots movement of bikers determined to drown out the jeers and taunts.

In Flushing, Michigan they turned their leather-clad backs to the five women and held flags and tarps up so that mourners walking past wouldn't see the signs saying "God hates fags," "fag vets" and "America is doomed."

Many found it hard to hide their anger when Margie Phelps, the daughter of Westboro's founder, called out "All this for little old us? Oh, you shouldn't have. I feel so special," before she started singing "the Pope, the Pope, the Pope is on fire. He don't get no water let the heretics burn" in front of a Catholic church.

The glee with which the women hurled insults made John Franklin, 64, sick to his stomach.

"This guy's family deserves a peaceful funeral. It's not right what they're doing," said Franklin, who fought in the Vietnam War. "The only reason they're able to walk around like that is because the veterans fought for their freedom."

While Westboro's congregation remains stable at around 100 people - most of whom are the extended family of founder Fred Phelps - the ranks of the Patriot Guard Riders has swelled to more than 16,000 in just a few months.

The protests come at a time when many Americans think the war in Iraq was a mistake but are anxious to show their support for the troops.

Four states have enacted legislation barring protests at funerals and a dozen more are in the process of introducing bans. But it is unlikely that the bans will stand up to legal challenge.

The group is careful to protest in public spaces and is well aware of its constitutional rights - 11 of Phelps' 13 children are lawyers.

"This nation is poised to trash the first amendment just to stop my preaching," Fred Phelps said in a telephone interview. "I'm kind of honored."

Phelps said he and his congregants are targeting the funerals because God's way of punishing an "evil nation" of "fags and fag enablers" is to "pick off its children."

"I don't have any sympathy for these parents. They're all going to hell," Phelps said. "The family's in pain because they haven't obeyed the Lord God."

The group is so outrageous that some among the extreme-right have speculated that Phelps is a plant aimed at giving the anti-gay movement a bad name, said Mark Potok, the director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center which tracks hate crimes.

"I don't think they have any constituency beyond their own members - even the Nazis aren't interested," he said.

Phelps' virulence and frequently graphic condemnations of anal sex could mask a deeper issue than a radically literal interpretation of the Bible, Potok speculated.

"This man probably thinks more about gay sex than any other person in the United States of America and one can only guess at what that means," he said. "Many of the most homophobic people are deeply afraid that they might be gay."
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

I agree that the right wing fruitcakes like this guy would turn this country into a Christain version of the middle east if they had their way.  If this guy isn't on the governments terrorist watch list, he should be.
Kung Jew
That one mod
+331|6715|Houston, TX
This is almost comparable, in certain aspects, to the cartoons that fanned fires around the globe.  The 1st amendment protects the rights that the protesters and groups like Phelps's have that allow them to do and say what they want.  That being said, and similar to the cartoon issue, both incidents show a profound lack of taste, courtesty, and respect for others.  Both the protesting and the cartoons show extremely poor judgement and bad taste. 
Out of sheer respect for the dead, I don't believe protesting should be permitted.  Loss of life is just that, a loss of life.  Even if you hate the guy who died, for whatever reason, there is no need to dance upon their grave. 
Now, protesting is a small form of disrespect in comparison to something really drastic (ie dragging the body through town whilst villagers beat and spit on the corpse)  But should we lower our respect and value for life even in the slightest? Do we compromise our obligations to respect humanity to defeat our enemies? 
What productive outcome can be gained by them protesting funerals?  Do they gain some foothold in their battle for killing off a gay nation?  Do the nasty homosexual no-gooders perish and get sent to hell for an eternity all because of a protest?  Or do they simply gain noriety, attention, and stir the poop stick so that everybody gets to smell what they've been spreading around?

KJ
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6747
Maybe someone should point out that this group pays taxes to the same government that the soldiers fight for?

MT 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them."

GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control."

I would wager that these are not Christians.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6664|San Francisco
Phelps just doesn't get any and is mad about it...

But seriously, it's really too bad that they do that.  Luckily, the first amendment also protects the rights of Bikers to come to the funerals and rev their engines to drown out the Baptist naysayers.  There is a whole gang of Bikers that are devoted to doing that currently...they try to show up at any Phelps-ridden event and drown them out so the families can carry on without people constantly cheering for their sons or daughters' death.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6734|Dallas
If someone did that at a funeral of one of my loved ones I think I would probably beat the shit out of someone.  I'm suprised it hasn't happened already.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
im an oif vet and if some 65 year old lady started yelling "god loves ied's" then i would break my knuckles on her jaw
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

As far as I'm concerned, it's a shame that it wasn't Phelps' church that got burned down by those college kids...with all of their members inside!
herrr_smity
Member
+156|6598|space command ur anus
after reading the first line i was disgusted by the actions of these women.
they better have been hung from the tallest tree ore else I'm coming over and doing it for you. i got rope and every thing
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6741|Atlanta, GA USA
They have the right to do what they are doing, but, personally, I find it disgusting.  Like someone said above, I'm surprised they haven't gotten the shit kicked out of them.
This guy Phelps is a total nutjob, and most of his "church" are members of his family.  He fixates on homosexuality so much, it makes me think: is he really gay and can't accept the contradictions of his religious beliefs and his homosexual urges?
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6705|California
That's what I'm thikning. Phelps wants to throw on some chaps and play Brokback mountain, but he can't, so he takes it out on gay people.
Yeticus Rex
Destroyer of Penguins
+29|6629|SoCal

Cougar wrote:

If someone did that at a funeral of one of my loved ones I think I would probably beat the shit out of someone.  I'm suprised it hasn't happened already.
They are lawsuit happy as well, and they have their lawyers slap frivilous lawsuits for "perceived" assault and battery charges.

The best thing to do with these idiots is to ignore them.  They are modern day trolls.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6645|Canberra, AUS
I know these faggots. These 'God Hates Fags' people probably have a kindegartener's education.

Things like these do get me angry tough.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6645|Canberra, AUS
Oh, and by the way, the words 'Do not read if ....' or 'Do not continue if...' are a surefire way to get everyone to read on or continue on.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6705|California

Spark wrote:

Oh, and by the way, the words 'Do not read if ....' or 'Do not continue if...' are a surefire way to get everyone to read on or continue on.
You're sharp man... razor sharp....
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6728|MA, USA

Erkut.hv wrote:

Hecklers harass families of US soldiers killed in Iraq
Mar 12 7:21 AM US/Eastern...
What year?  I think this is old news....either that or these scumbags have been at it for a while, because I seem to remember hearing about something similar while I was in Iraq.

Having said that, if I ever saw anyone celebrating the death of a soldier killed in action, I would point out the inconsistencies in their position, calmly and rationally.  With a baseball bat.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-03-14 13:11:11)

Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6705|California
Heya Whitt, I got it off the wire yesterday. Fortunately, there some good biker folk who go to the funerals and turn their backs on the heretics.
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6683|Norway
I don't know what to say?!!

Protesting at a funeral??? That is sick! Perverted people to say the least!
What if they lost familymembers and held a service and 16.000 bikers came and started shouting. "Guess God didn't like you stupid asshats after all!"

Or more calmly, for every protester there'd be a hundred choir-members singing psalms and hymns..
That's it - drown out their protests with some psalms praising the Lord!

Or just plainly, lasoo their necks  with thin steel-cable, tie the other end to one of the bikes and floor it... *SNAP!*...
sfg-Ice__
Member
+4|6623
You know what?  Someone should do them a favor and send them to the great almighty himself.  Do them a favor I think.  I'm a vet and if these fuckers showed up at a funeral of a friend of mine I would just sit back and wait.  I wait for the right time and moment.  It only takes two witnesses to say that someone fell down the steps or stepped out infront of a moving car......
Not Entirely Sane
Member
+6|6631|Just Outside Seattle
Protesting against things like the war is one thing, but going to some poor soldier’s funeral and acting like that?!?!?! That’s just wrong that poor family should have been left alone to mourn. People who behave in such a shameful manner deserve everything that’s coming to them.
Squig2510
Member
+0|6661
So let me get this straight, those people are protesting against multiple things of which some have to do with God? And they're doing this stuff at a funeral? Do they know what respect is, or even what the meaning of God is?
Gen. Payne
Member
+50|6676|USA
That's disgusting that they're doing this and saying it is in the name of God. The people in this country sometimes...
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614

Gen. Payne wrote:

That's disgusting that they're doing this and saying it is in the name of God. The people in this country sometimes...
dont get it twisted, i am pretty sure this is an extremely small group of people who believe this way.  They are not protesting the war, but they are protesting the american military of allowing homosexuals to serve (to a certain extent).  I stand by my earlier statement.  If I see an old 65 year old grandmother holding a sign that says "god loves IED's"  I will be picking the rest of her teeth with my knuckles and take the consequences with a smile...id rather cut off my foot than lose a toe (not really but you get the jist)
[QXJZ]Capt_Kefra
Alright, you're good to go!
+124|6698|Honolulu, HI
"The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.  The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are all over his works." (Psalm 145:8-9)

No, I'm not even religious, and he's pissed me off enough to find a relevant Bible quote for this post.

Has Phelps, for all his preaching and invoking the name of God, learned anything from the Bible?  Simply stunning, if unsurprising, ignorance on his part--either complete, blind, willing ignorance, or perhaps a double-standard?  Something like "It's ok for me to be a completely hypocritical intolerant insensitive douchebag, because they're 'only fags' who have 'angered the Lord'" ???

I'd go on some more but seriously...lavishing more time on lambasting him is more than he deserves.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6807
Its getting surreal. I find I have to use that word a lot lately, I need a thesaurus, (sp )
Still, I guess its cool to trash Christianity over the acts of a few people. Just don't try it on any other religion.

Its a big country and you can find a group preaching or protesting anything you want to.

I am sure the is a " Save our Native Bats ( their so cute ) Group "  somewhere in the USA

My point is, if they clear all that crap up I am pretty confident this kid will find something else to pout or act smug about.

I have been reading the  Quran or  Koran during my time on the Train. I really had to look hard to find an English version that wasn't

                 " reinterpreted to show me the Real meaning ".

So far I don't see this " Kill all non Muslims " passages everyone refers to.

ps Muslims are not the only religion to have a word for anyone who isn't " one of them. "

I wonder if the secret police are stalking me now that I have this little book?

its as Boring as a bible.

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