BF2S Forums PKM -- too accurate/powerful?

uk.solidsnake wrote:

junkpi1e wrote:

What's with all the tears about the PKM. If you're going to lower yourself to the level of posting a thread on a public forum crying about it, why not just unlock the damn thing and use it. "It's not my playstyle", "Only noobs use the PKM!" are both invalid points becuase theres a certain skill in life and battlefield called adaption.

Hi, I'd like you to meet my friend balance, he is a critical part of many online multiplayer games. He also cannot be found in BF2 due to weapons like the PKM.

The "if you can't beat them, join them" mentality is retarded, noone should be forced to adapt and use one kit just because the developers fucked up, each kit is supposed to provide specific, balanced benefits. I guess they went a little too far with support. Unlocking the PKM grants you a fully automatic sniper rifle with unlimited rounds and grenades. This isn't Rambo the video game.

PKM > All.

He said it pefectly, extra points for the Rambo comment.

How do we fix this? Raise the minimun deviation and don't let people shoot when your going prone, I'd pay anybody $1000 to hit a target 2ft wide 75m away while diving prone holding a light machine gun.

when i see support gunners i spot them as snipers

its only "too" accurate on the "first shot". people (myself included) are no longer using it as a full auto weapon but raher clicking the mouse so it fires one shot at a time but doing it as fast as they can. this makes the gun seem more acurate than it really is. If yer all going to cry about it till it gets the nerf stick upside its head then I say just turn down the first shot accuracy a skosh, and dont touch anything else. that would take care of the "sniping" aspect and still allow PKM users to enjoy the gun as the mass killing machine it is supposed to be.

Last edited by Terrible_chester (2006-03-16 07:25:24)

http://media.putfile.com/Rooftop-Camping-PKM-Style

watch that, and *try* to tell me that the PKM isnt unbalanced. *try*.

accuracy. you should not be able to hit people at the mosque from the hotel with anything but a sniper rifle. even if they were noobs (eh, whatever) he still should not be able to hit a stationary target that far away.

im not saying the PKM couldnt do it in real life (im pretty sure it couldnt tho) im saying for game balance, it should not be able to do that. Id be hard pressed to do that with a carbine.

accuracy = SMG, pistol, LMG, AR, Carbines, Sniper Rifles

accuracy should not go = SMG, pistol, LMG, AR, Carbines, Sniper Rifles, LMG

blacksheepcannibal wrote:

accuracy. you should not be able to hit people at the mosque from the hotel with anything but a sniper rifle. even if they were noobs (eh, whatever) he still should not be able to hit a stationary target that far away.

im not saying the PKM couldnt do it in real life (im pretty sure it couldnt tho) im saying for game balance, it should not be able to do that. Id be hard pressed to do that with a carbine.

accuracy = SMG, pistol, LMG, AR, Carbines, Sniper Rifles

accuracy should not go = SMG, pistol, LMG, AR, Carbines, Sniper Rifles, LMG

I've heard that the PKM is actually very accurate IRL, more so than assault rifles. I don't have experience with firearms so I can't comment any further.

In game the first shot of the PKM (and MG36) is very accurate, with a deviation value of 0.1. Pre 1.2 people were saying how accurate the G36C was with a deviation of 0.2.

That video shows the best way to utlilise the PKM at medium ranges - not burst fire, but single shots paused out slightly. That way the PKM remains VERY accurate with a good rate of fire.

For game balance though I think they should make the LMGs all have a deviation value of 0.3, currently it's unbalanced because the default USMC/MEC/PLA LMGs have 0.3 deviation, making them a lot less accurate than the 0.1 deviation PKM/MG36 LMG unlocks.

They should make LMGs be most effective when bursting, hitting a general target area with many bullets and hoping some of them hit.

-=S8M=-Phoenix wrote:

Would some of you like some cheese with your whine?

You guys that complain about bunny hoping, dolphin diving, spawn campers, tank whores, plane whore's can eat my shorts!

Being good at the use of a weapon takes time, some people can pick-up the technique quicker than others. Please take the time to master the different weapons before you complain!

Sorry, I tire easily of cry babies! If you can't handle it, go play a Role Playing Game (RPG)!

I've never complained about anything BUT the pkm.  (and so have these other players)

TRUST ME, you are very wrong.  The PKM takes no time to figure out how to use it the best way (single shots, like an SVD) once anyone has figured out how to take advantage of how unfair the PKM is, they can kill 3x more players than with a regular assault rifle.  It's ludicrous.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-03-19 00:38:18)

i love the new pkm and i don't even use it!!!!  more support players = easier for tank whores:)  thank god they didn't boost the spec ops or anti-tank weapons...would have been tank whore hell to have the streets filled with those nasty suckers:)

every kit has a weakness.  support owns other infantry but gets pummeled by armor.  i think balance is fine.

Spearhead, I was speaking in general, not just the PKM!

I only use the PKM class rifle in order to achieve my support badge and re-supply goals. The PKM is a good enough weapon as is, but can be bested by other weapons classes once you get familiar with its weaknesses.

It isn't hard to take out a pkm'er, most of them simply hold down the fire button guaranteeing you'll be able waste them with your gun pretty much every single time. It's the tap gunners you need to be wary of.

Something I learned way back when in counter-strike, you can be much more accurate if you simply tap the mouse button repeatedly but not too far apart and not too close as to decrease accuracy but to fire single bullets.

Most of the time all weapons I use I have set to single fire for this very reason, although that said I do spend the majority of my time as a sniper.

Last edited by EvilMonkeySlayer (2006-03-20 13:55:48)

First off, please back off the flaming antics in the first several posts.  If you are going to resort to name calling at least make sure it means "something fitting".  Describing someone/thing as h*mo or g*y undermines your point as it reflects the a lack of tact and cultural/historical respect for this group, additionally what you mean to say is that it is "lame" as in ineffective/less effective.  Calling someone that makes more sense than "h*m*", so please if you intend to flame, address the other person's point with respect, and then answer the fallacies with your own perspective.  If they come across racist call their behavior bigotry, if they seem overly egotistical, express that their actions are pretencious.  Win not by labelling the person, win not by calling them something non-sensical, but through validity in your own argument or calling them or label their behavior accurately.  Plus you will retain respect from your peers, instead of coming across as a senseless bully.  That said, I hope folks cool it, I'd like to able to discuss main points clearly rather than trudging through the trash talk to get to it. 

As for the discussion at hand, the PKM and LMGs are closer to fulfilling their intended duty, supression fire.  EA probably gave the accuracy bonus so that opponents would respect the fire power of the support kit, thus allowing it to hold down an area with fire power.  However, if a LMG user dies because an assault/medic/or sniper pops around the same corner he is aiming at and shoots him dead before he can kill them, it does nothing for "suppression".  But with high accuracy the LMGs make it so that you can't jump/roll into the area sustaining fire and expect to win.  The problem in my mind, is that the LMGs take too little time to deploy, kneeling effectively reduces the deviation to that of an assault rifle and prone makes it about as accurate as SVD.  Add in the minut recoil compared to the sniper and assault rifles and it gives LMGs a significant advantage.  So as you can see, LMGs do not fulfill their role as supression weapons, and thus when used in run-in-gun combat have imbalance because of overall advantages in rate of fire, lack of deviation penalty per round fired, low recoil, very small base deviation and power. 

I'd advise EA that EA tweak the PKM/MG36 base deviation to 0.2 instead of 0.1, so that it loses its long range dominance.  Increase the amount of time it takes to overheat and make it so that it has a separate "accuracy category" so that it doesn't pull down overall accuracy statistics when bullets are fired liberally.  Then add in a deployment time for accuracy handicap, so that minimal deviation fire only occurs after .75 seconds kneeling, and 1.25 seconds prone without horizontal movement.  (If it was only 1 second being prone, make it have more accuracy than say .5 seconds of deployment, but no where near as much as 1.25 seconds.) This would make it so that the user actually has the feel that the LMGS are "heavy" and as effective defensive weapons that require a little planning to use effectively while maintaining the capacity for supression fire.

I don't know why everyone talks about the PKM being used as a sniper rifle, but you can almost do the same thing with other weapons, execpt the knife.  I have "sniped" a sniper on Sharqi Peninsula from the construction site flag as he climbed the crane near there.  I have also "sniped" people on Ghosttown across the map with the Assult Kits default weapon.  It seems that since the PKM is more accurate people pay attention to it more.

psssh rpk is better